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  1. #681
    Stood in the Fire kojane's Avatar
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    It's just going to show

    "Blizzard doesn't need a WoW killer, they'll just do it by themselves"

    not my words.
    Wash me away clean your body of me, erase all the memories they will only bring us pain, and I've seen all I'll ever need.

  2. #682
    The Insane Bakis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haxxxan View Post
    The subscriptions will increase next year.
    How come? Its not the first expansion they released. Pet battles and Pandas better be mighty good and fun if its to break the steady fact of WoW declining steadily for some time. We have seen WoWs peak in all but new markets.

    Everyone knows that before a new expansion subs drops, once it hit they rise. No biggie there.
    But their subs decline alot even with this taken into account.
    WoW wont die but saying it will grow (outside new markets) is moronic (no you are not, im speaking in general terms).

    WoW is becoming more of a dead horse in the oldest markets. A large portion of players have seen a few expansions by now and realised it will bring nothing new just another package ie. zone, talents, mini-games, achivements.

    US/EU will decline, Brazil and new markets will be a nice boost, what happens in Asia will be extremly important.
    All this while more and more challengers emerge, challengers who learned the leassons of all previous misstakes the so called 'WoW-Killers' made.
    The best thing about Kremlin posters is that as soon as you voice something they have to mention the US.
    Their awe and love for the US is truly great and I commend them for their love of their fellow men.

  3. #683
    Bloodsail Admiral Jamos77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haxxxan View Post
    The subscriptions will increase next year.
    In 2011 they lost 1.7mil with only Rift to compete with.

    In 2012 WoW goes up against TOR, GW2 and The Secret World.

    My guess is that no, they won't see 11mil again, let alone 12mil.

    The last time WoW was at 10.3mil was in 2008. Again, with 3 juicy MMO's out in the next 6 months I can't see WoW holding 7mil (2mil NA/Eu, 5mil Asia) in 2012. Are Panda's the answer? Maybe, maybe not.

    We're all guessing...even Blizzard at this point
    SWG - Jamus Divinus - Bria 2005-2011

    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusher View Post
    There is plenty to criticize with the game and BioWares handling of it without resorting to exaggeration, so let's not do it : /

  4. #684
    I am Murloc! Anjerith's Avatar
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    The Annual Pass w/ Diablo, the upcoming 4.3 patch, the release of the Brazilian client and the upcoming expansion pack will very easily give them 1-1.5 million customers. This is not counting incidental pickups over the course of the new year.
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    Gold and the 'need' for it in-game is easily one of the most overblown mindsets in this community.

  5. #685
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cairhiin View Post
    With SW:TOR, Diablo III and Guild Wars 2 as competitors, sorry doubt it.
    You do realize diablo 3 and GW2 aren't competitors of wow right? Sure their both online games, but because your not paying for them monthly a lot of people will play wow as we'll as those 2.
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  6. #686
    My favorite part about this is kids applying 3rd grade math to what they see. ZOMG $15 x 1,700,000 = big numbar! Sky is falling! Blizzard is broke!

    Please, never get a job where you are responsible for any kind of budgeting, finance, investments, etc...

  7. #687
    Quote Originally Posted by Durzlla View Post
    You do realize diablo 3 and GW2 aren't competitors of wow right?
    They compete for playing time. And if someone is not playing WoW much, they tend to decide after a while to save $15/month.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  8. #688
    Quote Originally Posted by Durzlla View Post
    You do realize diablo 3 and GW2 aren't competitors of wow right? Sure their both online games, but because your not paying for them monthly a lot of people will play wow as we'll as those 2.
    yes they are, for the people whose most valuable resource is not money, but time
    Change game in brutal ways to get more players
    Lose players because of the changes
    The formula is wrong

  9. #689
    Quote Originally Posted by Muni View Post
    I believe we're all in denial about the people games we love. ie: the game is slowly but surely coming to an end. 1.7 million subscribers in 3/4th of a year. The downslide will only continue...it's already started to snowball.

    Theres no reason to come in and act in such denial though...the games had an amazing run...time to let go.
    Lmfao I love this kind of idiotic reasoning. "Yeah guys, we should all quit too. I mean, the game only has well more than 10 times the subs that EQ and UO had at their respective peaks combined. Obviously it's all over, just let it go and move on! There will definitely not be new content or anything, I know they stopped making expansions for EQ back in like 2004 when that game died. Blizzard is abandoning ship just like SOE did, we should too."

  10. #690
    There is snowball effect in business Drakhar...

  11. #691
    Quote Originally Posted by Drakhar View Post
    My favorite part about this is kids applying 3rd grade math to what they see. ZOMG $15 x 1,700,000 = big numbar! Sky is falling! Blizzard is broke!

    Please, never get a job where you are responsible for any kind of budgeting, finance, investments, etc...
    It's even worse when people pretend that Blizzard doesn't care from a financial point of view. There are different sub models and in Asia it's not the same as in EU/NA sure, but this is money "lost" (lost in the fashion that they will not get them as opposed to if they had kept the subscribers. They haven't actually lost money). And it is a big deal, Blizzard is not just sitting at HQ going "oh well, easy come easy go" they care, and they care a lot. This is big money and not getting it is not something they just casually wave off.

  12. #692
    Quote Originally Posted by Skilz View Post
    It's even worse when people pretend that Blizzard doesn't care from a financial point of view. There are different sub models and in Asia it's not the same as in EU/NA sure, but this is money "lost" (lost in the fashion that they will not get them as opposed to if they had kept the subscribers. They haven't actually lost money). And it is a big deal, Blizzard is not just sitting at HQ going "oh well, easy come easy go" they care, and they care a lot. This is big money and not getting it is not something they just casually wave off.
    Who suggested Blizzard doesn't care? The point is why the fuck do we care so much, I don't hold Blizzard-Activision stocks. That is, people with a functioning brain, not the sheeple like Muni. And before anyone goes off with their doomsaying "zomg less revenue means less contentz for us," I'd like to see a shred of evidence for that which would relate to WoW that isn't misguided conjecture.

  13. #693
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamos77 View Post
    We're all guessing...even Blizzard at this point
    Ehm... hasn't that always been the case?
    When WoW launched (or of course, before pre-sales etc) blizzard employees got riled up when they heard their plan was to get one million subs for WoW!!!!!!
    Exactly, their goal was one million. They've had over 10 million for over 5 years. Blizz didn't even know how popular it would be and they don't know now :P All they can do is try and do what is best in their eyes to keep their players playing or draw even more players into the game.

    Not trying to bash you here (I know things can come over the wrong way through text), but you're not the first one who seems to think blizz is very sure that they'll be able to keep up their position as market leader. In general blizz seems to just do what they think is best, and that hasn't changed much since warcraft 2 (I started following em since then). There are changes on the business level (some of which I don't agree with), but you pretty much have to as a growing company, no matter what section you're in.

  14. #694
    Quote Originally Posted by Drakhar View Post
    My favorite part about this is kids applying 3rd grade math to what they see. ZOMG $15 x 1,700,000 = big numbar! Sky is falling! Blizzard is broke!

    Please, never get a job where you are responsible for any kind of budgeting, finance, investments, etc...
    What's partially to blame for this thinking is that the subscriber counts are not broken down by territory. If we saw "X for North America" then these detractors would at least be armed with correct information.

  15. #695
    The 10 million subs left have some of the old gamers that wow attracted in years past, plus many more that joined wow during wrath (as old gamers were quiting dissapointed), cause it was in fashion.
    Those people got to know the game as an epic grindfest/easymode.
    Also those people joined the success bandwagon. Not a hard choice, wow is cool.

    The fact is though, that the result of 3 consecutive quarters with subs losses can work to them in a strange way.
    Think of it as a 25 people ICC pug back from the old days.

    You join, you do the 4 bosses with no wipe group looks good.
    And as master looter is finishing his job and you re waiting in front of the fat abominations to continue, one moron leaves group.
    Shortly after all the morons have left the group and you re left with 8-9 people and RL to say thanks for the raids guys bb.

    This is the mentality of the new age wow gamer. The "i want to see the content/get the epicz for seeing it". 1 jumps off the boat others are rushing to follow, cause if they don't they re not cool for staying in a failed boat...
    Previous changes (wrath) chaced away great part of the healthy wow population.
    Those changes at start of cata chased away the spoiled wrath generation. The nerfs that followed chased more of the old time gamers ("have fun slaying dragons!" the fairwell mesage of an EU 25 top guild after they finished tier 11 well into top 100 as they diserved to finish the journey).

    The conclusion? Again i will repeat it. Designing your game to make it apealing to as many people as posible rather than to be played is the fatal mistake some devs (under pressure ofc) made. YOU CANT PLEASE ALL and you re watering down your own game as you re trying to do so.
    Last edited by Archidamos; 2011-11-09 at 02:33 PM.

  16. #696
    How much has Rift, Warhammer online, and other mmos lost? You guys make this sound like the end of the world (like you always do =D) but it isn't. WoW won't end till the Titans blow us up.
    "I just wanted them to hand us our award! But they were just talk!, talk!, talk!......" - Wrathion

  17. #697
    Quote Originally Posted by Hankscorpio View Post
    - WOW is dying. Best make plans for a future mmo in the next year.
    Because I'm sure 10.3 million users means an MMO is dying, I'm sure. Get your head out of your ass.

    ---------- Post added 2011-11-09 at 09:37 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Leonne View Post
    yes they are, for the people whose most valuable resource is not money, but time
    They aren't, actually, unless GW2 makes something with microtransactions. It's basically all about success, money-wise.

  18. #698
    Quote Originally Posted by Malefic View Post
    People saying WoW is dead are extremely naive.

    To put it into perspective MMO's like Rift etc are circa the 1.5mill subscribers mark (I believe), and they're living happily.
    The studios supporting Rift and such are nowhere near as big as Blizzard. Please keep in mind, Blizz is a worldwide organization with an absolutely gigantic headquarters in CA. They employ a great many people -- and they do so because their revenue is very, very high. It's high because WoW brings in millions upon millions of dollars a month. The reason they have such leeway with Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 is because their bills are getting paid by WoW, and when SC2/D3 launch it is a one-time profit... the only ongoing profit would come from expansions (or in SC2's case, the final game release).

    If the bottom suddenly falls out on WoW, their ongoing revenue stream will begin to dry up. They will start cutting jobs. Support staff will go first, with less players to support. Then infrastructure, with server mergers. Then perhaps actual cuts on the development teams. A drop to even 5mil subscribers will change the landscape at that company, rest assured. At 1.5mil, there will be a great deal of "belt tightening."

    That is, until Titan launches and they see a resurgence (or so they hope) of MMO revenue.

  19. #699

  20. #700
    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    I was anticipating a steady loss of 100k per month. To learn that this trend has now doubled before Diablo III, SWTOR, GW2 etc. are even out... wow. We can defo say that WoW's glory days are behind it.
    They pretty much did see 100K net losses per month -- in NA/EU/KR. The larger number is because China turned its nose up at Cataclysm too, just like the rest of the world did.

    WoW isn't dead, or even dying, but you can bet any amount of money you want that it's going to change radically after the Cataclysm experience. The devs and Morhaime have been telegraphing this almost constantly in recent months. Hardcores who liked a tough end game, you're not going to be happy.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

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