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  1. #41
    Yeah there wasn't any randomness to misery though. To beat a dead horse - when an orb procs early the start of the fight is fun, micro-managing cooldowns and such to squeeze as much dps out of this phase is enjoyable. With bad luck this phase is spent grinding my teeth and waiting for an orb while I watch other classes bars zoom away from me on recount. It's true that impact on overall damage is small, so why not change it and remove a frustrating element of the class, there are plenty of ways to do it I'm sure (a cut down version of T13 maybe, just the first swing of shadowfiend gives an orb). Hopefully as Arlee says ES will be changed somehow in 5.0 and this whole issue will be moot anyway

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Whicker View Post
    The just answered my regen question
    They even put some damn spirit cloth in the game in future then.

  3. #43
    Oh yea I was just mentioning Misery for ramp up comparison, to me misery = evangelism currently.

  4. #44
    I'd trade the mess we have right now for old Misery anyday. Maybe not when Misery was a debuff, but when it was a selfbuff oh hell yeah. I don't mind a ramp up time, what I mind is the RNG dictating when I can start DPSing.

  5. #45
    I don't mind the RNG that much as it makes our rotation less predictable and harder and forces us to adapt to what we get. I do, however, think that the impact of getting no orb shouldn't be that huge. If we don't get an orb at the start, our DPS can really be shit. Basically, they should keep RNG factor in our rotation but not make it matter that much. Looks like it is kind of what they are trying to do in MoP.
    Last edited by Ariadne; 2011-11-09 at 09:43 PM.

  6. #46
    Once we have our t13 rng at boss start should be pretty much non-existant, and I will be endlessly pestering devs in MoP alpha to remove any rng we have left, so overall I'm not too worried.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Whicker View Post
    What do you guys think of that Spirit Shell? I think it will be a huge bubble on a cast time. Now what do we cast GH or SS lol?
    could be a passive shield like scared shield was in wrath. But it makes me wonder will disc lose pain suppression because as it stands now it seems like priest will bring a ton of tank cooldowns to raids.

  8. #48
    I LOVE the fact that intellect is no longer a regen stat in MoP.
    This news made me incredibly happy.
    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

  9. #49
    I didn't say ALL other classes. I would say there's a problem when RNG so heavily dictates dps no matter what the class.
    Our ramp up is fine, and is even better than several classes. We can get all our CDs in in the first set of procs. Affliction Warlocks have the same problem that we do with the first set of dots being weak. The only class without any real ramp up is DPS Warriors. Shadow Orb RNG is not really a problem. I never even noticed it until I saw all the QQ on the forums. At least we aren't like Fire Mages, who can't use their big DPS CD and a central damage spell if they don't get the right procs. Imagine if you couldn't MB at all if you didn't get an orb...owait...

    Mana can be an issue for Shadow though - multidotting can cause a lot of mana issues. It was a lot worse early on in Cata than it is now (I still run oom on Heroic Rhyolith unless I'm really careful though).
    Last edited by Felade; 2011-11-09 at 10:51 PM.

  10. #50
    Mechagnome Kassina's Avatar
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    This is probably off topic:
    Quote Originally Posted by some blue @ top that some mod quoted
    In regard to healing, specifically holy priests. I love lightwell. Awesome spell. Probably one of the most OP healing spells in the game. Is it possible to give every player a macro for using it ? Kidding, but are there any changes to make it a more viable talent for Holy priests without becoming completely repetitive (click the lightwell, click the lightwell, click it damnit)
    Why don't they make lightwell like the lightwells on some trash like in TOC5 where they like "spit" heals to npc with low hp, so they could make lightwell work the same way. But it will still have stacks lets say 15 and when a player goes under 25% hp it will heal instant for some hp and then put the HOT that ticks.

    Just my thought I thought that would be awesome if they did it because then people wont have to click it and all holy priest wont get mad ^^
    Last edited by Kassina; 2011-11-09 at 11:21 PM. Reason: fixed some things, and this box is awesome. should make more boxes like this.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Annesh View Post
    Our perspectives are different. My perspective is that it's a problem and should be fixed, regardless of whether or not other classes suffer from similar issues. I said that the majority of other classes don't suffer like we do and I was correct. The fact that a minority of classes are in the same boat is no reason to reject the point.
    As far as RNG goes on opening, it's not really that big of an issue. It was a bigger issue when it was a couple back to back crits on an opening and we couldn't DPS at all without risk of aggro. When Vampiric Touch had scaling mana return, and Vampiric Embrace was meaningful to all people involved, and we were threatcapped from the beginning of the fight to the end, despite people pushing twice the DPS as us. THAT had a bigger impact than not getting an orb on rotation. We don't really have it that bad.

    I'm also not sure why you mentioned Enhance; I don't think it suffers from RNG or ramp-up, just poor scaling and a complicated, dynamic priority-based rotation. Also note that I fully support other classes in their efforts to get their issues fixed.
    A dynamic priority based rotation that has its top move as nothing but RNG.

    But I get the feeling (please don't think I'm attacking or being hostile, actually my intention is that if I'm right we can happily stop arguing and no hard feelings) that as a healing priest you aren't that interested in the problems of your dark cousins, and if that's even a little bit true then there's not really any reason for us to argue about it because you just don't take it as seriously as I do, hence why you don't see it as a problem.
    Priest moderator. That's all that needs to be said.

    I originally thought we needed an orb generator, a single orb on a 45-1 minute cooldown. That was me as of 4.0.6, 4.1, and a fair bit of early 4.2

    I just don't think it's necessary anymore. I also think the 4pc13 is a terrible terrible design. As Kilee says, as Worshaka said all through Wrath, the opening 10 seconds of a fight represent such a small amount of damage done (and most debuffs aren't up by your first Vampiric Touch/Devouring Plague application anyways) that OUR OPENING ROTATION usually doesn't even matter. It really doesn't. If our rotation doesn't matter so long as all DoTs get up, Evangelism gets to five, and Mind Blast is used, an Orb for the first set of VT/DP (with no debuffs boosting it from the beginning) isn't make or break.

    You feel it's a problem, I feel it's a nuance of the spec that prevents us from being played by bots. The only issue that this really "hurts" our DPS is if you wipe before the first minute of the fight is over, because the delta of an orb on opening or not is smoothed out over an actual encounter's life span.
    Last edited by Kelesti; 2011-11-10 at 12:06 AM.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
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  12. #52
    I also say that about the opening Kel... no love

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Josefina View Post
    This is probably off topic:


    Why don't they make lightwell like the lightwells on some trash like in TOC5 where they like "spit" heals to npc with low hp, so they could make lightwell work the same way. But it will still have stacks lets say 15 and when a player goes under 25% hp it will heal instant for some hp and then put the HOT that ticks.

    Just my thought I thought that would be awesome if they did it because then people wont have to click it and all holy priest wont get mad ^^
    No.

    And no again. Let's move on.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
    Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
    Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

  14. #54
    Mechagnome Kassina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    No.

    And no again. Let's move on.
    Well sorry that you didn't like it ;/

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Josefina View Post
    Well sorry that you didn't like it ;/
    More that it is an old dead horse and the dev's have said they don't want it to work that way. So it's not going to happen basically.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    I just don't think it's necessary anymore. I also think the 4pc13 is a terrible terrible design. As Kilee says, as Worshaka said all through Wrath, the opening 10 seconds of a fight represent such a small amount of damage done (and most debuffs aren't up by your first Vampiric Touch/Devouring Plague application anyways) that OUR OPENING ROTATION usually doesn't even matter. It really doesn't.
    Actually, on the majority of fights the opening 50s represents the least 'mechanics' and therefore the best burn time, losing 20% of that due to rng can have a massive effect on the fight. Another notable boss would be Sinestra, where good P1 dps (a 1 minute phase) is extremely important.

    All debuffs should be up on your first VP/DP application, which even with the best rng possible should be at least 5s into the fight.

    To that end I think the 4pt13 is a very handy set bonus for this niche, how good a dps gain it is for the rest of the fight I don't know, though I'm not expecting it to be massive.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Totemanic View Post
    Actually, on the majority of fights the opening 50s represents the least 'mechanics' and therefore the best burn time, losing 20% of that due to rng can have a massive effect on the fight. Another notable boss would be Sinestra, where good P1 dps (a 1 minute phase) is extremely important.
    If you can quantify the "massive" effect on the fight in the first 50s using real numbers and real logs that would be awesome. Every time I have had this debate with people and we have tried to quantify the difference it turns out not to matter much. Granted right now things are slightly balanced to the first 50s being more important because the fights are so short after the nerf... but somehow I don't think the fights in 4.3 will be 3min or less.

  18. #58
    My current 'record' at the start of a boss with SW: P up and spamming Mind Flay is 15s with no Orb. Depending on how much you trust orbs to proc you shouldn't be using MB or either of your two other dots until you get your first Orb, so you're looking at about 50% dps for 15s, during pot uptime, probable trinket procs and 10s of Heroism.

    Assuming you'd be doing 30-35k dps during that period normally, you're losing 200k dmg or so. I've wiped on bosses with less health than that more times than I care to remember.

    'Massive'? No (and I probably shouldn't have used that word before), but wouldn't hurt to fix it, overall we're in a good place at the moment so gotta give them something to do
    Last edited by Totemanic; 2011-11-10 at 12:49 AM.

  19. #59
    Mechagnome Kassina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post
    More that it is an old dead horse and the dev's have said they don't want it to work that way. So it's not going to happen basically.
    Well that was a better answer and I didn't know that they've said that that would never be done. well hope they'll work something out.

  20. #60
    I REALY don´t like the idea of Mb having no cd and using rng Shadoworbs as resource , I think that will totaly screw up any kind of rotation due to Mb beeing the spell with the most dmg output , probably ending up like a ret pal hitting buttons when they rng light up to make dmg, like a retarded whack a mole....

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