1. #1
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    Light of Dawn and its glpyh now and in 4.3.

    Hello everyone.

    So...i'm somewhat confused at the moment. These are the words of a Blue poster concerning the Light of Dawn changes in 4.3: "Instead of providing an additional target to Light of Dawn, the glyph now reduces the number of targets but increases the throughput."

    On the PTRs and according to WoWhead, the number of reduced targets is 2 and the healing per target is increased by 25%. So, let's say we have a hypothetical situation in which Light of Dawn does 100 healing per target. Now, the default version of Light of Dawn will heal 5 people, which means total healing, and therefor throughput, will be 500. The glyphed version will have 3 targets, which would be 300, although due to the healing increase it's actually 375. So, my question is, how, and in which reality is 375 against 500 "increased throughput"? If Blizzard's intent was to just boost the healing in a situation where you have only 3 targets in front of you, i have to say, that's one hell of a sucky glpyh. Word of Glory is on the PTRs still far superior to it in those kinds of situations. If my calculations or logic are flawed, please do tell.

    Thank you in advance.

  2. #2
    There are a couple of points I'd like to bring up here. The first is that 'increased throughput' is, admittedly, somewhat poor wording by blizzard. Its true intent and purpose is to increase efficiency. Healing 3 targets for a larger amount is going to be 'better' in some situations (read - primarily in 10 man raiding) than healing 3 people for less, and overhealing 2 others, effectively wasting 2/5 of the heal. It does decrease the heal sent to the beacon target, but that is just part of the choice in using the glyph. Do you want to do better healing to the 3 who need it, or more healing to the tank through beacon. Also as you mentioned, this is a good glyph in situations when you may not be able to hit 4 or even 5 people with LoD.

    Secondly, its a Major glyph, not a prime. Therefore, according to blizzard's current mentality on glyphs, it should be a utility choice, rather than a required glyph because it gives a flat benefit to throughput or power. Granted, given our other choices for major glyphs, its not amazing. Divine Plea is more or less set in stone. Divine Protection will continue to be better for progression raiding. Divinity is arguably better for progression raiding as well, and in some cases, Holy Wrath can be competitive too. Heck, if a dispel-heavy fight like Rotface or Lich King every makes its way back into raiding, we may be able to make an argument for Cleansing. The bottom line though, its a utility choice, intended to differ even on a fight-to-fight basis. Don't make the mistake of thinking that because it isn't the best choice for a few fights, that its a bad glyph that isn't worth carrying around.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurzior View Post
    There are a couple of points I'd like to bring up here. The first is that 'increased throughput' is, admittedly, somewhat poor wording by blizzard. Its true intent and purpose is to increase efficiency. Healing 3 targets for a larger amount is going to be 'better' in some situations (read - primarily in 10 man raiding) than healing 3 people for less, and overhealing 2 others, effectively wasting 2/5 of the heal. It does decrease the heal sent to the beacon target, but that is just part of the choice in using the glyph. Do you want to do better healing to the 3 who need it, or more healing to the tank through beacon. Also as you mentioned, this is a good glyph in situations when you may not be able to hit 4 or even 5 people with LoD.

    Secondly, its a Major glyph, not a prime. Therefore, according to blizzard's current mentality on glyphs, it should be a utility choice, rather than a required glyph because it gives a flat benefit to throughput or power. Granted, given our other choices for major glyphs, its not amazing. Divine Plea is more or less set in stone. Divine Protection will continue to be better for progression raiding. Divinity is arguably better for progression raiding as well, and in some cases, Holy Wrath can be competitive too. Heck, if a dispel-heavy fight like Rotface or Lich King every makes its way back into raiding, we may be able to make an argument for Cleansing. The bottom line though, its a utility choice, intended to differ even on a fight-to-fight basis. Don't make the mistake of thinking that because it isn't the best choice for a few fights, that its a bad glyph that isn't worth carrying around.
    Well, at the moment, i can't even see it being better than WoG even when glyphed and used on all 3 people. In addition, WoG has a 30% chance to not consume holy power.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Wikiy View Post
    Well, at the moment, i can't even see it being better than WoG even when glyphed and used on all 3 people. In addition, WoG has a 30% chance to not consume holy power.
    That's up for debate. Again, you have to look at efficiency in a given situation. Because WoG is such a powerful single-target heal, its very possible to waste a chunk of it on overhealing. LoD is a large heal, but distributed over 3 or 5 people, making the overheal potential much smaller, so it could be more situationally efficient.

    I'll just reiterate that as far as glyphs go, its a utility choice. If you don't use the spell at all, maybe its just not the right one for you. There will be situations though, where the glyph will outperform the others that it competes with.


    Random side note as well. I just checked the PTR patch notes, and according to the official notes as of Nov. 4, glyph of LoD only reduces it to 4 targets, not 3. There could be any number of reasons for the discrepency, but if the wowhead version is in fact, wrong. That would be enough to make it a competitive choice over a broader range of situations, since you wouldn't lose throughput, but rather make it the same total heal value and focus it on 1 less target.

    Edit: I'm apparently just not paying attention. LoD in 4.3 heals 6 targets as baseline, and the glyph reduces it to 4. So it is still a decrease in maximum healing to use the glyph, but if you raid 10 mans, how often do you have the chance to hit 6 people with LoD? And if you do want to hit that many people, why not just HR?
    Last edited by Kurzior; 2011-11-09 at 06:53 PM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurzior View Post
    That's up for debate. Again, you have to look at efficiency in a given situation. Because WoG is such a powerful single-target heal, its very possible to waste a chunk of it on overhealing. LoD is a large heal, but distributed over 3 or 5 people, making the overheal potential much smaller, so it could be more situationally efficient.

    I'll just reiterate that as far as glyphs go, its a utility choice. If you don't use the spell at all, maybe its just not the right one for you. There will be situations though, where the glyph will outperform the others that it competes with.


    Random side note as well. I just checked the PTR patch notes, and according to the official notes as of Nov. 4, glyph of LoD only reduces it to 4 targets, not 3. There could be any number of reasons for the discrepency, but if the wowhead version is in fact, wrong. That would be enough to make it a competitive choice over a broader range of situations, since you wouldn't lose throughput, but rather make it the same total heal value and focus it on 1 less target.

    Edit: I'm apparently just not paying attention. LoD in 4.3 heals 6 targets as baseline, and the glyph reduces it to 4. So it is still a decrease in maximum healing to use the glyph, but if you raid 10 mans, how often do you have the chance to hit 6 people with LoD? And if you do want to hit that many people, why not just HR?
    Well, situations where LoD will be better than WoG will be really rare (not talking about stack-up phases obviously) and LoD will also be used for situations where it can hit up to 6 people, so having it glyphed might compromise real aoe healing. The way i see it, it's better to leave it original since most Dragon Soul fights have stack up phases.

  6. #6
    Pretty sure it's to make light of dawn more effective in 10 mans.

  7. #7
    In opposition to the glyph lets say that niether crit mastery or haste make a case for either situation: having the glyph or not having the glyph. Not having it is more throughput as say the theoretical 100hp heal per person.

    Not having it: 6*100 = 600 hp and 300 hp to the tank making it 900 overall
    Having it: 4*100 = 400, more healing would be 400*1.25 = 500 and 250 to the tank making it 750 overall.

    One of these is clearly more mana efficient and hps than the other.

    In defense of the glyph, there are 3 factors that need to be taken into account:

    1. Beacon is an overhealing nightmare.
    2. LoD rarely hits 6 targets in 10m
    3. One thing that people underestimate is the op'ness of smart heals. It will do 125 hp to the 4 lowest targets, not only decreasing the chance of overheal but *increasing* throughput if 4 people or less need hp or are in your cone.

    How often do you cop out with a wog becuase you dont want your LoD to goto waste only hitting 3 targets? Harder hitting smart aoe heals mean that the raids healthpools will stabilize faster in comparison. In a 25m non-glyphed is a no-brainer. But in 10m I think this glyph will become prevalant on most every fight but ultraxion and deathwing.

  8. #8
    Deleted
    Do you know about any numbercrunching regarding this exact matter yet? I raid 10 mans, I love to read about the theories and numbers.. But I suck at it myself.. The actual crunching.. =)

  9. #9
    Deleted
    That glyph will be nice if the raidwide damge is that great on 4.3 hope that glyph will only reduce it to 4 targets

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