Resilience in 4.3

[Pompeii]

All you PvP qqers don't realise that starting out in PvP with 0 resilience is a hell lot harsher than starting out in PvE with 1 less secondary stat. At least you Pvp-Pvers get to do good dps (~15k), if not optimal. Pvers-PvPers get so utterly obliterated in BGs with 0 resilience its not even funny (dying in within 5secs).

Everyone who has ever PvPed seriously ever has gone through that at least once. We aren't just given PvP gear when we hit 85. Also, people aren't really worried about these changes for normal battlegrounds. It doesn't matter much to me if PvE players can compete in normal battlegrounds. Honestly, I'm all for it since normal battlegrounds aren't really all that competitive. Arena and rated BGs are a different story. The main concern is that best in slot raiding gear might be more viable in arena/rated BGs than actual PvP gear. PvE players should not have such an advantage.

[knumskul]

Everyone who has ever PvPed seriously ever has gone through that at least once. We aren't just given PvP gear when we hit 85. Also, people aren't really worried about these changes for normal battlegrounds. It doesn't matter much to me if PvE players can compete in normal battlegrounds. Honestly, I'm all for it since normal battlegrounds aren't really all that competitive. Arena and rated BGs are a different story. The main concern is that best in slot raiding gear might be more viable in arena/rated BGs than actual PvP gear. PvE players should not have such an advantage.

Obviously they wouldn't hand out enough resilience so you can compete evenly in rated BGs/arenas. Otherwise, everybody would be bringing PvE gear into those environments. Or it would be better to just remove resilience on gear if PvErs and PvPers can compete on the same level with the baseline resilience.

What I'm thinking is that the baseline resilience being handed out would make the starting curve a lot less harsh. You get to farm honor in BGs or farm conquest in arena a lot easier. Capping minimal points in arena at the lowest rating wouldn't be counted as competitive nor will affect those serious arena-ers. But those guys will QQ nevertheless (omg they should far BG gear before stepping foot in arena. bliz wtf!??!). Farming honor in a normal BG with 0 resilience is a lot harsher because you inadvertedly contribute to your team losing (as a liability for getting killed easily, hence not being able to help out as much). The more games you lose, the longer you have to spend grinding to get to a certain amount of honor. I don't remember the exact number of honor points you get for winning or losing a BG but, as an example, getting 1000 honor through winning 10 BGs is a lot better than through losing 50 BGs.

[Pool of the Dead]

Obviously they wouldn't hand out enough resilience so you can compete evenly in rated BGs/arenas. Otherwise, everybody would be bringing PvE gear into those environments. Or it would be better to just remove resilience on gear if PvErs and PvPers can compete on the same level with the baseline resilience.

What I'm thinking is that the baseline resilience being handed out would make the starting curve a lot less harsh. You get to farm honor in BGs or farm conquest in arena a lot easier. Capping minimal points in arena at the lowest rating wouldn't be counted as competitive nor will affect those serious arena-ers. But those guys will QQ nevertheless (omg they should far BG gear before stepping foot in arena. bliz wtf!??!). Farming honor in a normal BG with 0 resilience is a lot harsher because you inadvertedly contribute to your team losing (as a liability for getting killed easily, hence not being able to help out as much). The more games you lose, the longer you have to spend grinding to get to a certain amount of honor. I don't remember the exact number of honor points you get for winning or losing a BG but, as an example, getting 1000 honor through winning 10 BGs is a lot better than through losing 50 BGs.

This is exactly right, GC has said the baseline Resil will give you enough to make it so you are completely stomped, but PvP'ers that spend time to get gear will still be ahead in the PvP game. It is to help bridge the gap between freshly dinging and hardcore PvP'ers. because as I said earlier would you PvP'ers rather all the freshly dinged people on your teams be in greens and have no resil and be butthurt about it, or have at least baseline resil and at least help your team accomplish something, whilst you can still go be Resil-laden tanks. I sure as hell know I would.

Anyone that is bothered by this because they are "SRS PVP'ERS!!" if you are really serious PvP'ers you will be doing Rateds or Arenas, so a freshly dinged person with a little bit of resil in a Random BG, should be of no consequence to your god-like PROUBERLEET PvP skills.

[Deleted]

I think you all PvE-heroes need to calm down. Most of "us" PvP.ers are NOT against this. We are (atleast i am) merely saying this change will probably benefit PvE.ers more.

Of course we prefer that freshly dinged toons and PvEers bring some viability to battlegrounds, but on the other hand, who of you PvE-heroes would bring a PvPer in PvP-gear to your firelands-progression?

Again, i am NOT against this.

[Reith]

What this guy said.

All you PvP qqers don't realise that starting out in PvP with 0 resilience is a hell lot harsher than starting out in PvE with 1 less secondary stat. At least you Pvp-Pvers get to do good dps (~15k), if not optimal. Pvers-PvPers get so utterly obliterated in BGs with 0 resilience its not even funny (dying in within 5secs).

Not to mention what another guy here has already posted, it also helps out those people with freshly dinged toons. At least PvE raiders get good dps to try to compensate for their squishyness in a PvP environment (applies mainly to ranged who can just hang back and dps). Freshly dinged players do shit damage in green gear crap with 0 resilience. Might as well just sing campfire songs by the graveyard since you can't survive anything nor do anything, other than feed honor and contribute to the losing of your team for being an absolute liability.

So in short, without this being implemented PvErs are a bigger liability compared to PvPers when it comes to stepping into the other environment. And I'm pretty sure "baseline" would mean something like 1k resilience in terms of what you can get currently. It isn't much but it sure as hell beats 0 resilience.

You realize you can, right now, get 1k resilience EASILY with crafted resilience gear? Or just doing normal heroic dungeons and converting JP to honor? Just saying that there are ways of getting resilience when starting out. People are apparently too lazy to do so.

[alphaseries]

That isn't in 4.3... that is for MoP... and I don't think it will affect pvpers ... you'll still have more resilience than pve players...

You are wrong this was released as a 4.3 patch note

"PvP
You shouldn't be killing healers just because you burst them down and keep them interrupted, but because you cause them to have to use mana inefficiently
Resilience as a base stat is to make players who primarily do PvE content able to enter the PvP space with their PvE gear and remain competitive."

[Pompeii]

Obviously they wouldn't hand out enough resilience so you can compete evenly in rated BGs/arenas. Otherwise, everybody would be bringing PvE gear into those environments

Blizzard has already had problems with high-end raid gear in arena. Players in PvE gear in previous seasons could put out some ridiculous damage, so this has definitely ALREADY been a problem. I agree with the rest of your post though, it seems quite sensible to me. If they're able to balance it adequately it shouldn't be so bad.

Anyone that is bothered by this because they are "SRS PVP'ERS!!" if you are really serious PvP'ers you will be doing Rateds or Arenas, so a freshly dinged person with a little bit of resil in a Random BG, should be of no consequence to your god-like PROUBERLEET PvP skills.

You keep commenting on how elitist and rude PvP players are but nobody in this thread is acting that way. We're not worried about this because we don't want PvE players to be able to earn PvP gear. We're not trying to keep you down, nor are we attacking you. We want to make sure that our part of the game remains enjoyable and that things remain adequately balanced.

[Deleted]

Blizzard has already had problems with high-end raid gear in arena. Players in PvE gear in previous seasons could put out some ridiculous damage, so this has definitely ALREADY been a problem. I agree with the rest of your post though, it seems quite sensible to me. If they're able to balance it adequately it shouldn't be so bad.



You keep commenting on how elitist and rude PvP players are but nobody in this thread is acting that way. We're not worried about this because we don't want PvE players to be able to earn PvP gear. We're not trying to keep you down, nor are we attacking you. We want to make sure that our part of the game remains enjoyable and that things remain adequately balanced.

Beautiful post, i really couldn't have said it any better myself!

[dpeace]

You keep commenting on how elitist and rude PvP players are but nobody in this thread is acting that way. We're not worried about this because we don't want PvE players to be able to earn PvP gear. We're not trying to keep you down, nor are we attacking you. We want to make sure that our part of the game remains enjoyable and that things remain adequately balanced.

This exactly, It's not so much as we're angry as such it just makes the gear that we strive for less meaningful, when considering we are still loosing one whole stat what we'd would normal have on PvE. Whilst the difference in gear will still be there, it just seems that they are closing the gap more and the threat of some PvE items becoming superior to PvP gear is a worry.

[Buubba]

i hope you guys understand, and blizzard said this aswell. making resilience a base stat, gives pve players a chance to go into pvp easier. a pve player with 0 resilience, we all know how frustrating it can be to try to do pvp then. giving them 2k for example makes them more sustain within it.
those who uses full pvp gear will still have max resilience. done deal. no big deal

[Irisel]

All this is is an easy way for spells vs player to do less damage while spells vs environment are still uber leet. They could just change all the tooltip to say "Does 20% less damage to players," if it makes you feel better about this change.

Again, this is a buff to everyone's survivability, and a nerf to everyone's damage to players, PvE geared player are not the only ones getting this. If it makes you feel better, just don't think about it, it doesn't change you as a hardcore pvper, you will still rape fluffer noobs in 3 seconds like you know you want to.

You all who are saying this is an injustice to avid pvpers, are just not seeing the whole picture. It's not a nerf to you and free stats to pve-ers.

[Caiada]

I'm gonna do some theoretical math that will hopefully explain how this won't be a balance problem (any worse than it is now, at least.)

THEORETICAL BRASTPLATE OF THEORY
500 STR
500 STA
200 HIT
200 HST

That's a regular PvE Plate DPS piece.

ANGRY BREASTPLATE OF THEORY

500 STR
500 STA
200 HIT
200 RES

That's a regular PvP Plate piece right now.

After this change, we would move, let's say, 50% of the resilience to base resilience. A reasonable amount. The PvP piece would become this:

500 STR
500 STA
200 HIT
100 RES

But it's under budget now, right? How's Blizzard gonna solve that? I think they'll do something like this:

500 STA
500 STR
200 HIT
100 RES
100 HST

Perfect solution. The penalty for moving between PvE and PvP would be half as harsh, and the balance between PvE and PvP pieces while doing PvP would remain the same, or even a little more in favor of PvP pieces in PvP. The numbers are very rough, but you see what they could do, I hope?


(Unless they specifically stated resilience values on gear wouldn't change, which would be stupid of them, or if they stated resilience as a stat is going away, which would be worse.

[Pool of the Dead]

Blizzard has already had problems with high-end raid gear in arena. Players in PvE gear in previous seasons could put out some ridiculous damage, so this has definitely ALREADY been a problem. I agree with the rest of your post though, it seems quite sensible to me. If they're able to balance it adequately it shouldn't be so bad.



You keep commenting on how elitist and rude PvP players are but nobody in this thread is acting that way. We're not worried about this because we don't want PvE players to be able to earn PvP gear. We're not trying to keep you down, nor are we attacking you. We want to make sure that our part of the game remains enjoyable and that things remain adequately balanced.

At no point was i pointing out anyone in this thread was like this, just saying that people that WOULD be bothered not that people ARE bothered.

It doesn't bother me anyway, no-one is keep me down or attacking me, I always have a full set of the most recent obtainable conquest/Honor gear. Just saying, this would not make PvP any less enjoyable or unbalanced.

This exactly, It's not so much as we're angry as such it just makes the gear that we strive for less meaningful, when considering we are still loosing one whole stat what we'd would normal have on PvE. Whilst the difference in gear will still be there, it just seems that they are closing the gap more and the threat of some PvE items becoming superior to PvP gear is a worry.

It won't make your gear less meaningful at all, as PvP gear will STILL give the advantage in PvP. It makes it no less meaningful then people who use blue pvp gear or honor grind sets, while you serious guys have conquest.

You will STILL have the advantage. Others will just have a less of a fuckaround trying to make that advantage smaller again by being able to effectively grind out PvP gear easier without being stomped for 3 weeks straight.

Because how it is now, 1/4 of the way through a season any mediocre player will still have full 5/5 set of the same gear you have anyway.

[Uncle Julian]

WoW was a much better game before the introduction of resilience. PvE gear had more damage dealing stats, while PvP gear had more stamina. Resilience kinda fucked with the system in my opinion...have thought this ever since the introduction of it.

[Deleted]

In my honest opinion it is a F***ing bad idea. Hopefully the end result will look different.
If they decide to keep it, they are making a major mistake, but again.....that wouldn't be the first time.

[Nelrock]

I actually see a bit of a flaw to this.
Take for instance Bloodthirsty items. That's an easy way to start PvP. You craft/buy yourself a set. It's a PvP set...so...you sacrifice a stat to have resil on it.

By giving everybody a base resil...there is now no penalty. You get all the benefit of the PvE stats + now the beginner PvP stat.
Going the other direction...PvP gear in a PvE environment...is still sacrificing a base stat.

I haven't seen how much base resil is being given yet...but I have a hard time believing that a fully tiered PvE player wouldn't have an advantage here. They'll have enough resil to not be squishy, yet have all the stats to put out a lot of damage/healing, because they aren't sacrificing a stat for resil.
I could easily see a well geared PvE players being viable in Arena's.

[Stanton Biston]

A.) It will happen in 5.0
B.) There's other threads on the subject
C.) Should stay in the MoP forum for now.