The decision to make PvP available at Level 1

[Lolsteak]

there are people who only play to pvp. they should be allowed to follow that style of gameplay as pure pve players are allowed to follow their preferred style. why must pvp players be forced to play pve if it is not what they want? that seems like nonsense.

besides, you personally can follow a pve/pvp path and develop your character as you wish.

The game was originally created for 99% PvE and still is mainly focussed around PvE, if you don't like it play another game.

[Durzlla]

To me this breaks the immersion of your character in the world. When you go through the PvE side of things, it makes sense that your get more skills, gear etc as you level. Every time you log in, and everything you do is a continuation of this slow and steady progress. You character is and has exactly what you earn through the choices you make in the world.

When you can instead create a character and instantly have every ability, the best gear etc. and travel straight to endgame pvp, it cheapens the value of the world you play in, it makes it irrelevant. It no longer feels like "your character" that you traveled with through many adventures, but rather just some generic toon created by the computer that you happen to play.

This also seems bad for the PvP gameplay itself, as you will have players running around who have zero experience playing their profession.
If you want to give players all the same gear to make it a level playing field then OK, but IMO make them wait until level 80 to get that. Have them go through the world, learn how to play their profession, develop a connection with their character, with the reward of a great PvP experience waiting for them at the end.

Well in WvWvW pvp you only get bumped up to 80 and are still in shit gear and have your 3-4skills, because in WvWvW pvp it's YOUR character. However in the balanced pvp aka conquest, it's supposed to take place in the mists and therefore isn't your dude so it makes sense that he's lv 80 in good gear and all the moves unlocked.

Ps: I'm not making this up, Colin Johanson has said this therefore it is LAW!

[Deleted]

The game was originally created for 99% PvE and still is mainly focussed around PvE, if you don't like it play another game.

The discussion is about Guild Wars 2, not WoW.

[Worgoblin]

I'll be going from 1-80 entirely in W v W v W. That game mode, and the ability to get XP and loot that way, is the only reason I'm gonna buy GW2.

[Barrowmore]

The leveling system in GW2 is a nebulous concept. The devs have admitted that they could have removed leveling entirely and created a similar experience, but they included it so that MMO players going into GW2 would have a familiar goal. It's mostly smoke and mirrors.

[Durzlla]

I'll be going from 1-80 entirely in W v W v W. That game mode, and the ability to get XP and loot that way, is the only reason I'm gonna buy GW2.

Omg lol, i'll probably do the same thing with at least a few levels here and there, but my god once i hit 80 and/or complete my personal story i will spend most of my days cracking skulls in WvWvW!!

[Pud'n]

The discussion is about Guild Wars 2, not WoW.

Oh the sweet irony.

[Blufossa]

The game was originally created for 99% PvE and still is mainly focussed around PvE, if you don't like it play another game.

Rofl @ this.

If you want to PvP, you can PvP from level one.
If you want to WvWvW, you can play WvWvW.
If you want to explore, you can go explore and eventually die.
If you want to expand your character's story, you can go quest.
If you want to grind DE's, you can grind DE's.
Etc and so on.

ArenaNet doesn't like forcing people to PvE or DE if they only want to PvP. Is that bad? No. Plus they added WvWvW which is like AV only bigger and you can level/quest in there while killing people.

[RickJamesLich]

The satisfaction from PvP comes from out-skilling other players, not obtaining gear. So why make gear part of the equation? Also, as you know from WoW low-level PvP is extreamly frustration as you don't have all the skills you need to fight other classes fairly, GW2 has solved this with their PvP model and it is therefore easy to balance for all players.

I think gear is definitely a fun factor in PvP, not to mention other things, like your professions, engineering in particular, your spec, consumables.... buffs. I personally try to give myself every edge possible when I pvp, and I definitely love pvp (leveled almost all my toons through BG's besides the occasional dungeon or 2 for gear, but even then I usually just buy gear off the AH).

As for skills, I don't think you need every skill at the start, I'd say more like the baseline stuff, like warriors should have their in combat charge early on.... but then again, we have seen how blizz doesn't really care about lowbie pvp.

[theredviola]

I like it. It gives you a chance to try all classes out.

I'm not a pvp'er but I saw this perk too.

We've all been there. We do research into what class we want to play, we get an "Idea" of what it is like but really won't be able to find out its potential for 79 levels. But allowing pvp from level 1 does allow us to try out these classes.

You worry that it might "ruin immersion" but I think that getting waist deep into leveling a class only to find out its not what you expected and end up not liking it ruins immersion even more.

Now, I'm not saying you're wrong. Because from a pve standpoint, if you jump in to a max lv characteer, yeah that will ruin immersion of the game from OUR perspective. But to a pvper, immersion is in the eye of the beholder. If pvp is their immersion then allowing pvp from level 1 allows them to instantly immerse themselves in the game instead of waiting 79 levels to do so.

[Blznsmri]

I think gear is definitely a fun factor in PvP, not to mention other things, like your professions, engineering in particular, your spec, consumables.... buffs. I personally try to give myself every edge possible when I pvp, and I definitely love pvp (leveled almost all my toons through BG's besides the occasional dungeon or 2 for gear, but even then I usually just buy gear off the AH).

As for skills, I don't think you need every skill at the start, I'd say more like the baseline stuff, like warriors should have their in combat charge early on.... but then again, we have seen how blizz doesn't really care about lowbie pvp.

Having massive gear disparities in games makes it harder for people to get in to the PvP scene two or three seasons into it, because they don't have the resilience and the stats to be competitive.

[Nikvis]

You can also level up through pvp and low level pvp follows the pve sidekick system.

You'll be bumped up to max level but you won't have level 80 abilities.

[Sunseeker]

It worked out pretty well in GW1....so....yeah.

[Smitzelplix]

The game was originally created for 99% PvE and still is mainly focussed around PvE, if you don't like it play another game.

Once again another WoW forum poster doesn't read which forum they're actually in because they blindly follow a link from the front page of MMO-C.

On topic: I think ArenaNet allowing people to PVP right from the start is the right choice, if that is what people wish to do then let them.

[Durzlla]

Once again another WoW forum poster doesn't read which forum they're actually in because they blindly follow a link from the front page of MMO-C.

On topic: I think ArenaNet allowing people to PVP right from the start is the right choice, if that is what people wish to do then let them.

Is it jus me or is this happening more and more these days?

OT: I like how they eliminated low level pvp because it was always stupid and unbalanced, and being able to try out a prof BEFORE fully comiting to it is a huge plus in my book!

[Phatsamurai]

I just wanted to chime in with my two cents.


I feel that immersion can be great in a PvP environment. I for one, get a little into my battles, it makes me feel as if my character is actually developing the skills that will allow him to be such a great warrior later on.

Just as some people get immersed in the story line of a quest, I make my own story with every new PvP encounter.


If I want to PvP endgame, I want to feel like my character has "been in the shit" if you will. I don't want to be an adventurer that comes out once and a while to save a princess. I am a warrior, war is my business. You want your princess back? Okay, I will go with my battle-brothers and siege the castle where she is held. Once I've killed every last defender, you can leisurely walk up the the highest tower, and tell the princess it was you who saved her life.


I don't mean that to be demeaning in any way, I just thought it painted a good picture of what I was trying to express.

[Deleted]

But not really OP. One one side you say leveling is sort of like experience for your character... however what if you want a character who was experienced already so to say? In the end when the war started not everyone was a peasant with no clue how to fight. So it does make sense that your character is a skilled warrior too.

Also, in terms of people, some like the journey, some like the ending. That's why even if you spoil me the ending of a good book I'll still read it, I like the journey, but if I spoil the ending to you you might not because you now know it and why bother with the journey?

So overall I think judging people by skill rather then gear/level is a great idea. Only one thing worries me, and that is new players with no clue. Since they can join the moment they start (I haven't played Guild Wars 1 so it will take me a while to get used to GW system as well) it means you may have teams where some players have no clue (like me) with people with experience from GW1 or later once months pass from previous months. This will end some new people feeling like they don't stand a chance. This is why the only thing I would think useful, the only separation... would be to put people who are in first 3 months of play in a queue and rest in another for ... battlegrounds(sorry, forgat how the PvP areas are called in GW2).

[Fencers]

There really is no reason to rationalize this so much. Some people play for a PVP experience, others for PVE. GW2, just like the first game, allows players to pursue which ever of the two catches their fancy off the bat.

If you want to go through the process of leveling and eventually PVPing when at L-cap, you are free to do so.

This is the case in the first Guild Wars and will be in the second. /end.

[Queen of Hamsters]

I am just wary of the 'instant gratification' mentality. WoW adopted that and the game really started to decline. I think its important to have goals and compelling reasons to continue logging into a MMO. I mean by the 'anti-grind' logic that many people use, why not just have every new player create a character and instantly be level 80? Why have a leveling process at all? At their root, MMOs are a giant time sink; reducing the amount of time it takes to do any task is counter-intuitive to the very nature of what the MMO is. Blizzard completely lost sight of this, hopefully Anet doesn't do the same.

WoW = grinding for stuff that's soon outdated and you have to GRIND again.

GW2 = Rewarding.

You don't have to PVP if you don't like it, and if you want grinding the "WoW"-model, then stick to WoW...because Anet ARE removing that element of the game and those that want to PVE, can PVP and just rock out in that area...they'll simply be on equal terms, meaning NOBODY can roflstomp with gear.

And btw...those raiding HC raids in WoW, would like a say about the "instant gratification"...and so would those currently working on achievements/professions/factions/rare mounts etc etc...tbf, I don't know a single thing in WoW that comes instantly and makes a GREAT reward...

PVE leveling = one thing with process and all
PVP = it's own part. Simple enough.

[Ryozaras]

I'm going to go ahead and throw in my two cents here.

All of the PvP announced so far will take place in instanced zones, similar to the battleground and arenas system currently found in World of Warcraft.
There is absolutely no World PvP planned, only Server vs Server which again- takes place on an entirely instanced zone.
As all Guild Wars 2 PvP maps are instanced, it is easy to bar access to PvE areas on PvP-only characters, thereby protecting your character immersion and progression.
If this still doesn't make sense, let me explain:

In the original Guild Wars, the PvP-only characters allowed you full access to all the PvP zones and barred you from participating in any PvE content.
The PvP maps were given outposts which were strategically placed in a different game world map called The Battle Isles.
The separation from PvE for PvP only characters was an easy transition, as all the required NPCs and available PvP hubs were made available on the "main city" of this map.
The Battle Isles are making a comeback in GW2.
There is no way that a PvP character will have impact on your PvE experience in this game.