Shadowpriest 4.3 BIS list - who's carrying the torch?

[Kelesti]

You both are right but because you are both missing a word in your statement of best in slot. Arlee is referring to an absolute best in slot gear list and the OP is stating his version of a relative best in slot gear list. Op needs summing though to test but so far looks good for relative listing.

Arlee is looking at best in SLOT OP is looking at best overall gear set

The thing is though, we're not missing a word. Arlee, myself, and everyone over at HtP and Shadowpriest.com use "Best in SLOT" exactly as it is. OP on the other hand is using a potential "Best gear set", which is different and should be treated differently.

A person can't just dismiss what a BiS list is, because it doesn't fit what their idea of the definition should be. They're different terms altogether.

[Deathzero]

Yes I actually mispelled and mis worded but can't fix on iPhone. It's too hard I'll clean up post during Econ. (zipples )

[eErike]

The thing is though, we're not missing a word. Arlee, myself, and everyone over at HtP and Shadowpriest.com use "Best in SLOT" exactly as it is. OP on the other hand is using a potential "Best gear set", which is different and should be treated differently.

A person can't just dismiss what a BiS list is, because it doesn't fit what their idea of the definition should be. They're different terms altogether.

Well, your "BiS" item will not be allways be the best in slot. I'm using the word as of what is says, not what anyone says it should be. I don't say Best in chair to explain a sofa either.

If one makes a "BiS-list" by your function and lists 20 items by slot, that list will simply consist by 95% of not BiS items.

Using a word and refer to others may work aslong as they are institues like "Svenska Akademien" and "Oxford University Press" etcetc. untill then, the word itself will have no actual meaning besides what it's currently used as by the one typing it or as I prefer, what it actually says.

Not to mention that bitching about what someone names a list (especially when the word does not even exceist if you don't mean "Best in Show") they've used hours to create while one themself havn't contributed at all is just rude and ungrateful.

[Arlee]

It has this meaning because this is how it has been used for 7 years. It is not a random thing we have decided.

This is a BiS List... if anyone makes a list that is not something like that but rather a list of gear that makes reference to different slots to balance things (like hit cap) then please call it Best 4.3 Gear Set or something similar.

Really there is nothing to discuss about it. A BiS List means what it means because that is how it has been used for years.

[eErike]

It has this meaning because this is how it has been used for 7 years. It is not a random thing we have decided.

This is a BiS List... if anyone makes a list that is not something like that but rather a list of gear that makes reference to different slots to balance things (like hit cap) then please call it Best 4.3 Gear Set or something similar.

Really there is nothing to discuss about it. A BiS List means what it means because that is how it has been used for years.

Sight, way to act like a wall there Arlee *highfive*.

I'll make my last comment / input on the matter and if anyone wants to continue I'll answer them with a cute fluffy PM in order to avoid flooding this thread (feel free to remove all my previous posts about the matter if you want to, I want to get back down to "mechagnome" anyway).

Using a combination of letters over a sertain time does not make that combination a word. It will perhaps be asosiated to that description but until any official agency have agreed to include that combination into their official dictionary. The "word" will then be accepted by those who have agreed to follow that agencys statements. Before that a combination of letters may be used by anyone as they please to mean anything they feel like and no one can say that his/her description of the letters are wrong.

Example: I've been saying/typing "Derp" and "Woopwoop" over several years as I'm very childish. That does NOT mean that they are actual words.

What you posted is a list with many good avaible options for every slot. Only one (3.33%) of them will actually be the best item to have in that slot though and should hence, in my mind, not be called a BiS-list.

But the kontenta of this (TL;DR if you want) is that anyone may use the combination "BiS" as they please as long as they don't refer to "Best in Show". So please, stop beeing a bitch about it.

[Solia]

getting the gloves might be easier than taking a whole new token from someone else in the raid

Only if you've been farming 7/7H for a while. It's all about relative perspectives.

[Elicium]

Sight, way to act like a wall there Arlee *highfive*.

I'll make my last comment / input on the matter and if anyone wants to continue I'll answer them with a cute fluffy PM in order to avoid flooding this thread (feel free to remove all my previous posts about the matter if you want to, I want to get back down to "mechagnome" anyway).

Using a combination of letters over a sertain time does not make that combination a word. It will perhaps be asosiated to that description but until any official agency have agreed to include that combination into their official dictionary. The "word" will then be accepted by those who have agreed to follow that agencys statements. Before that a combination of letters may be used by anyone as they please to mean anything they feel like and no one can say that his/her description of the letters are wrong.

Example: I've been saying/typing "Derp" and "Woopwoop" over several years as I'm very childish. That does NOT mean that they are actual words.

What you posted is a list with many good avaible options for every slot. Only one (3.33%) of them will actually be the best item to have in that slot though and should hence, in my mind, not be called a BiS-list.

But the kontenta of this (TL;DR if you want) is that anyone may use the combination "BiS" as they please as long as they don't refer to "Best in Show". So please, stop beeing a bitch about it.

Seriously you're being a complete ass about this eErike. Arlee and Kelesti are completely right but yet you still argue for the sake of arguing. Check out any other BiS list here or at Shadowpriest.com or anywhere else.

[Deleted]

Didn't isolite (spelling? the guy from numen) used to make his BiS lists without giving a value to hit? I always found this a better way since it doesn't artificially push items up because of their hitrating, instead you'd go for 'less optimial items with hit' in order to reach hitcap. instead of going over hitcap and going for 'less optimial items without hit' to drop far enough down on hit.

[ambident]

^^^ this

hit is practically never more valuable than our next best secondary stat (and usually worth less) in gearing decisions since we can trade our other stats for hit at a 1:1 ratio.

spriests tend to aim for spirit haste or hit haste items, and _worst_ case we can simply change the haste on a hit/haste item to spirit, or the haste on a spirit/haste item to hit.
when you compare two items and one has hit and one doesn't, if hit is weighted higher of course it's going to win!!! but if you _can_ reach the hit cap without wearing that item the gain is totally artificial.
a gain of 200 haste on an item is 200 more haste to your character, a gain of 200 hit is 200 hit you don't have to reforge to elsewhere, whether this is a gain of 200 mastery, crit, or haste depends on your gear. sometimes it is worthwhile to gem int/hit (avoiding reforging haste->hit) and sometimes it's not worthwhile to gem int/hit (avoiding reforging crit,mastery->hit)

hence why the earlier poster saying healing shoulders should be the best upgrade (evaluating it one piece of gear at a time) but when you equip a different item and take the complete profile's stat weightings into account it's not best (even using the same stat weights!!)

i know that EJ's bis lists usually means the best final profile backed up by simcraft, rawr, or spreadsheets, i know shadowpriest.com used to have bis lists that simply listed each items weightings.

it seems pedantic to argue what "bis list" means, it's obvious different people have different definitions, which is fine -- just semantics.
smart players will figure out what to do with whatever information is given, everybody wants you to post your information as long as it is accurate
the listing of items per slot is generally more useful while gearing up, the "best profile" is obviously more useful when every item is available to you, and the one non-tier piece isn't intuitive.

if ds is anything like fl, the best "profile list" will be mostly obvious, nobody needed to research what neck, cloak, wrist, weapon, rings, trinkets etc were, it was fairly obvious -- there weren't many choices.

[Deleted]

i don't care about what u want to call it....BUT the type of BIS list that i and probably alot of others have been using for years, which take into account every item available, also normal and heroics version, is in my eyes so VERY much more of a valuable tool to a wider array of raiders...

If u take the list Zeroavix posted ofr 4.3 that is the best of all HC gear a spriest can attainin his eyes...this changes with classes, personal preference and..bambadabam..availability to gear...those HC pieces might not be the BIS item in normal version whereas other pieces might rank higher (not only by sims) but by how much dps u output with your current gear...that is why the kinda list i've been using from shadowpriest.com and H2P in my eyes are what u call a "BIS list" because with so many players with different availability when it comes to aquiring gear, this list shows what u should pick at the gearstage u are currently on...the top gearlist shown by others here clearly is the top best gear u can get if u have nice RNG and a hardcore raiding guild, however compared to the playerbase this is too misleading for the majority of spriests to come even close to call those items "best in slot" when some other item outrank that item's normal version.

[Veiled]

This is what we've got so far. We will see what develops; http://howtopriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=946

[Crummy]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post14200291