BiS Prot Pally Gear List (Non-Heroic)

[Splosion]

the hp pool shown in the link is wrong for sure im am running in hit/expertize cap gear on live with 174k - upping my ilvl form 386 to 395 sould not make me drob 20k hp

And yet you're still 20k lower than my health pool. It isn't worth it til everything is on farm.

[xtramuscle]

Why not simply push your survival higher by gemming for more stamina?

I will, but I won't do it at the cost of losing avoidance. By this reasoning, in 4.3 you'll have exactly the same avoidance as 4.2 only with more health? I'd imagine (as I haven't been on PTR) 4.3 bosses hit harder, and as valid as a larger healthpool will be, I'm also aiming for more pure avoidance than merely just meeting the CTC via means of unnecessary amounts of block.

Side note - Your cape socket bonus is useless to you.

Fully aware of that thank you, but more mastery is useless as I'm already at CTC and If i gemmed pure stam I'd be just below, I choose parry over dodge to keep them as balanced as possible, was merely coincidence I achieved the sock bonus whilst doing so.

And yet you're still 20k lower than my health pool. It isn't worth it til everything is on farm.

Splosion, It's clear from your armoury you love the stam, but I'm gonna guess you get hit like a truck. It is EASY to reach CTC cap with excessive amounts of block, and then it is an option to gem/enchant for stam. (Not saying its a good option, at the moment I've taken more dodge/parry and a little extra stam over all out stam. Depending on trinkets I sit between 209 and 219k hp.) But from my calculations you're not CTC capped yet, which means all that stamina you have, is not only a bad choice, but the wrong one.

[Splosion]

I will, but I won't do it at the cost of losing avoidance. By this reasoning, in 4.3 you'll have exactly the same avoidance as 4.2 only with more health? I'd imagine (as I haven't been on PTR) 4.3 bosses hit harder, and as valid as a larger healthpool will be, I'm also aiming for more pure avoidance than merely just meeting the CTC via means of unnecessary amounts of block.

You'd still end up with more overall avoidances from gear, such that you'd gain in this regard anyway. The point is that (Like Morphex pointed out), DS is full of magic damage, which puts stamina as a rather desirable stat. I see no point to push avoidances (or threat stats) higher at the cost of an increased health pool, since the strong part of the avoidance we have is its contribution to the CTC cap, rather than the damage reduction we get from it. Sure it's nice, but a few % more damage reduction on average (over the course of an entire fight) isn't that important. At this point it comes out to burst potential, and how resistant you are to it (especially with magic attacks involved)

[Elathi]

Splosion, It's clear from your armoury you love the stam, but I'm gonna guess you get hit like a truck. It is EASY to reach CTC cap with excessive amounts of block, and then it is an option to gem/enchant for stam. (Not saying its a good option, at the moment I've taken more dodge/parry and a little extra stam over all out stam. Depending on trinkets I sit between 209 and 219k hp.) But from my calculations you're not CTC capped yet, which means all that stamina you have, is not only a bad choice, but the wrong one.

Why the baseless assumptions?
Splosion is just barely at ctc cap using a mastery elixir and mastery food.
Splosion is also significantly less geared than you, of course stamina is going to be more desirable.*

*Nevermind, the Sindra trinket is throwing off the equipped ilvl. Difference isn't quite as significant.

[Splosion]

Just as an FYI, my healers love the amount of damage I take. They say that it's easy to heal, and the extra health I do have softens the spikiness of heavy hits. You're aware that pure avoidances does nothing for being hit like a "truck"? I have options for gear also, but I managed to exactly CTC cap with my gear setup, using 1x stam trinket and all stam gems.

Please, don't attack me if you're wrong, especially using my armory as a base. I like how you didn't even notice that I was wearing a level 80 trinket until someone else pointed it out. Firelord getting to your ego?

@elathi, the difference isn't quite as significant, no. The usual occupant of that slot is 391 scales of life, I was just doing heroic nef with some undergeared healers, the Flawless fang is kinda godmode for crackles. I never had one where I didn't have a personal cooldown for it.

[MorphexEU]

Get above 190k HP unbuffed, or GTFO!
/none-constructive post over.

On topic though, I stand on my opinion that stamina is the best way to go after CTC cap. Healers do not really care how much damage you take, as long as you never take a full hit or spike damage. Cause that will piss them off pretty fast. And the best way to reduce spike damage, in a healers pov, after CTC cap is to go for stamina. Stamina gives you bigger health pool (douh, obviously) which again means it will take longer time for a tank to dip below x% of HP from both melee attacks and magical attacks.

Also, avoidance VS stamina...... silly..... just remove the VS and replace it with &. As both will rise with gear. For instance, now (eventually) when i get the helmet from baleroc i won't be able to socket in any other way without loosing HP, and i will at the same time go above the CTC cap. What do i do? I drop mastery for the gain of avoidance.

But now you mostly will say; But we got cooldowns for magical damage! Douh! Noob!
Yes we do, but some magical damage in DS, so far, is sort of unpredictable. And it's so often that you simply won't have a CD for it. Warlord in dragon soul is a good example on that. And the magical DMG is huge!

[Splosion]

Get above 190k HP unbuffed, or GTFO!
/none-constructive post over.

On topic though, I stand on my opinion that stamina is the best way to go after CTC cap. Healers do not really care how much damage you take, as long as you never take a full hit or spike damage. Cause that will piss them off pretty fast. And the best way to reduce spike damage, in a healers pov, after CTC cap is to go for stamina. Stamina gives you bigger health pool (douh, obviously) which again means it will take longer time for a tank to dip below x% of HP from both melee attacks and magical attacks.

Also, avoidance VS stamina...... silly..... just remove the VS and replace it with &. As both will rise with gear. For instance, now (eventually) when i get the helmet from baleroc i won't be able to socket in any other way without loosing HP, and i will at the same time go above the CTC cap. What do i do? I drop mastery for the gain of avoidance.

But now you mostly will say; But we got cooldowns for magical damage! Douh! Noob!
Yes we do, but some magical damage in DS, so far, is sort of unpredictable. And it's so often that you simply won't have a CD for it. Warlord in dragon soul is a good example on that. And the magical DMG is huge!

You certainly put that better than I could've done.

[MorphexEU]

You certainly put that better than I could've done.

Thanks!

........ I think O.o

[Splosion]

Thanks!

........ I think O.o

xD

I think Theck put that fairly similarly. Block and avoidance provide the most significant survival increase til you're CTC capped. once there, your effective health from physical attacks is increased by your block amount (in our case, 31%). The issue is, we'd still end up taking a large amount of damage from magic, thus putting stamina at a better "go-to" stat than any other at this point. Once you've CTC capped, our favourite (somewhat dusty since cataclysm's release) effective health formula still have the greatest effect here, with regard to both stamina and armor. Simple case in fact.

Here's Theck's blog post if you wish for a more in-depth description: http://sacredduty.net/2011/10/14/wha...ing-block-cap/

[MorphexEU]

Now I gonna get to hear; Dude! You totally copy pasted theck!

y u post so early posts theck!?!? And y u all know off him! D:
And .....

nvm.

Yes, I currently do not have too much to do as there is currently nothing to do at work. So my posts might seem rather .... un-serious right now.

But regardless, theck nails it

[Splosion]

Yes, I currently do not have too much to do as there is currently nothing to do at work. So my posts might seem rather .... un-serious right now.

Tell me about it... I'm in exactly the same position right now. Problem is I tend to go to arguing on the forums \o/

[xtramuscle]

Why the baseless assumptions?
Splosion is just barely at ctc cap using a mastery elixir and mastery food.
Splosion is also significantly less geared than you, of course stamina is going to be more desirable.*

*Nevermind, the Sindra trinket is throwing off the equipped ilvl. Difference isn't quite as significant.

Fair play, didn't consider mastery elixir as its the expensive way round if you're wiping on HC rag, but whatever works for you. My gear allows me a little more play, infact when we last killed rag I was using my Vessel of acceleration trinket hehe. I wish you the best of luck, no offence was intended btw.

[Splosion]

Fair play, didn't consider mastery elixir as its the expensive way round if you're wiping on HC rag, but whatever works for you. My gear allows me a little more play, infact when we last killed rag I was using my Vessel of acceleration trinket hehe. I wish you the best of luck, no offence was intended btw.

None taken sir. my guild bank has more than enough gold to farm all repairs/consumables for our rag progress, so it's fairly easy affordability wise

[xtramuscle]

I took on board what you two said and reforged/gemmed for stam. Looking forward to doing some LFD groups today with 260k + hp ^^

[MorphexEU]

Haha Enjoy!

[morphling8]

I doubt you are going to need to reforge to mastery on everything depending on how you gem. With 387 ilvl now and a stam trinket I am around 102% already. That item level boost should easily put you over I would think...

[Zephyrie]

For non-heroic BiS gear, I would uses tier shoulders with the Blacksmithing legs. Additionally, I'd use the Stamina trinket (Indomitable Pride). With itemization in gear so far, it'll be extremely easy to reach CTC Cap.

[Higg]

it's probably worth pointing out that the Resolve of the Undying (stacking dodge) trinket will be difficult to calculate for CTC out of combat and obviously you can't reforge it either.

Also, has anyone on the PTR ran tests to see if this stacking buff ever falls off? Or does it pretty much stay up so long as you're hitting something? I remember the Unidentifiable Organ from ICC having a great stacking proc but it fell off easily.

[Splosion]

it's probably worth pointing out that the Resolve of the Undying (stacking dodge) trinket will be difficult to calculate for CTC out of combat and obviously you can't reforge it either.

Also, has anyone on the PTR ran tests to see if this stacking buff ever falls off? Or does it pretty much stay up so long as you're hitting something? I remember the Unidentifiable Organ from ICC having a great stacking proc but it fell off easily.

The difference was that the ICC trinket went on boss hits, and there are a large amount of times that you just aren't being hit. I doubt this dodge trinket will stack in the same way, but unfortunately it works out to around 3% dodge, which whilst good, just isn't worth dropping around 15k health for.