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  1. #61
    Brewmaster Newbryn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eorayn View Post
    I'm glad the game will require some serious skills, getting rid of the noobs who don't even want to try hard.
    I agree unfortunately that aspect of the game is a double edge sword, I can already see the Elitists swarming.
    Claymore is Epic again, eat it priscilla fanboys.

  2. #62
    Herald of the Titans Mighty Blue Bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newbryn View Post
    I agree unfortunately that aspect of the game is a double edge sword, I can already see the Elitists swarming.
    You'll find these with any game you play, and anything else you do in the world. The whole mentality makes me think of this old video/song...


  3. #63
    Brewmaster Newbryn's Avatar
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    That's an awesome song first time hearing the full version,but back on topic its definitely gonna be harder to teach people how to play since the game itself is gonna be a learning experience, hopefully we have more people willing to learn how to play properly than rage quitters.
    Claymore is Epic again, eat it priscilla fanboys.

  4. #64
    Herald of the Titans Mighty Blue Bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newbryn View Post
    That's an awesome song first time hearing the full version,but back on topic its definitely gonna be harder to teach people how to play since the game itself is gonna be a learning experience, hopefully we have more people willing to learn how to play properly than rage quitters.
    That would be nice. I would love to see more people be assertive in their games than just playing willy-nilly (for the hell of it, more or less).

  5. #65
    Bloodsail Admiral Cuchulainn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grugmuc View Post
    That would be nice. I would love to see more people be assertive in their games than just playing willy-nilly (for the hell of it, more or less).
    Yeah, I never really liked people who have the mentality of, "Hey guys, I'm not a serious player! What's that? Oh, we wiped. No problem, we're all here to have fun, right!?" Yeah, but I like the way Charlie Sheen put it, "WINNING". it's only fun if you make progress and immerse yourself into the game while making that progress. Wandering around, killing low level boars, with full bags and an empty skill bar at level 80 is not my definition of fun, it's just mindless "casualism". That kind of player is just as bad as the extremely hardcore players who see pixels and numbers more often than they see the beautiful layout of the game world set in front them.

    I like the middle ground.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Newbryn View Post
    That's an awesome song first time hearing the full version,but back on topic its definitely gonna be harder to teach people how to play since the game itself is gonna be a learning experience, hopefully we have more people willing to learn how to play properly than rage quitters.
    I don't think this will be the case at all.

    It's more natural and logical to teach a new player to MMOs that they can move out of the way of a fireball. Rather than explain they failed the save because their Willpower rating was too low and they should have stacked more Fire Resist.

    I remember years ago... my sister playing Warcraft for the first time and she was trying to dodge the missiles the rat-creatures in Lakeshire shot at her. I explained she didn't actually have to run all over the place. That the missiles would hit her no matter what she did and resistances and armor were factors in her survival.

    She looked at me like, :|

    Breaking MMO combat conventions to a more action type setting is more accessible to those that are not well versed in what Expertise, Focus and Strikethrough mean or do.

  7. #67
    I think Newbryn might be referring to mmo players having to learn how to play GW2. For players that have played other games like an fps then I'm sure GW2 will be no problem.

  8. #68
    Brewmaster Newbryn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    I think Newbryn might be referring to mmo players having to learn how to play GW2. For players that have played other games like an fps then I'm sure GW2 will be no problem.
    Pretty much this those who aren't used to this style of game play, but when I first started wow I was desperately trying to dodge every fireball coming at me shocked when I kept getting hit.
    Claymore is Epic again, eat it priscilla fanboys.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky_ View Post
    stuff
    dude, this is NOT GW1. the mechanics used in GW2 are so different how can you even compare them? you are complaining about a non issue. you can snare, gap close, switch to ranged weapon, play smarter, etc why do you act like you are not given the tools to make sure that you do not run into the problems of GW1? improved AI is a great thing for the game overall as it teaches people how to adapt to different attack strategies and learn the combat system used in GW2 more naturally and gets people who mainly PvE ready for PvP if they choose to do so. i can't believe people want static combat in a game like GW2, makes me sad. bah!
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  10. #70
    Brewmaster Newbryn's Avatar
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    So true guess people are gonna complain about the thief dodges too much or "I'm" always getting crippled blah blah blah if you cant handle a little ai then I can only imagine what happens when you come up against a real person if you pvp that is,FYI static gameplay is bad design.Turn based mechanics don't belong in a real time environment.
    Last edited by Newbryn; 2011-11-17 at 10:32 PM.
    Claymore is Epic again, eat it priscilla fanboys.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Milanor View Post
    There are ways of handling the "extra pulls" problem that seems to be one of the major complaints about smarter NPC AI out in the PvE environments, and I'm sure Arena Net has been trying a few out, especially if it was a big issue in Guild Wars 1. Just off the top of my head, I can think of two:

    I. Dynamic Scaling - Say you've fought long and hard with a hostile NPC and they take off running when they get close to the end of their health bar. Unfortunately for you, this enemy charges straight towards one or more other enemies, causing a newly-formed group to come and attack you while you're already weak/damaged/etc from your initial encounter. These new foe(s) could just be identical to the one you started out with while they're on their own, but the game could recognize your current situation and cause the new NPCs that join the fray to be weaker such that you actually have a chance against them, especially if you've been playing well.

    II. Smarter Fleeing AI - You challenge an enemy, they get low on health and start to run away, same deal. However, the AI for running away could simply stay the hell away from other enemies (or groups of them, or the tough ones, etc, etc) appearing to flee "randomly" in safer directions.
    no please, just NO! after being in the SWTOR beta test one of my biggest complaints is how easy it was to faceroll content, i had to force myself to die just to see if it could actually happen and i only managed to die while in a flashpoint to a boss while soloing it. yeah f*ck that noise.

    games are too easy already as it is. people don't get that making mistakes is a part of learning, it helps you play better next time and as ANet said it is an indication that maybe you are out of your league and need to drop down a level or 2 on the mobs you are after and practice until you have improved enough to go back. there is no shame in failure, it's only a shame if you do not learn anything from it and i for one welcome the challenge!
    Cherish the quiet...before my STORM!!!

    Guild Wars 2: Odeezee (Necromancer) || TERA: Odeezee (Archer-Ret) || SWTOR: Odeezee (Sith Inquisitor-Ret/Jedi Sage-Ret) || GW: Odeezee Fosho (Elementalist-Ret)
    Aion: Odeezee (Sorcerer-Ret), ODZ (Spirit Master-Ret) || War
    : Odeezee (Sorcerer-Ret) || AoC: Odeezee (Demonologist-Ret) || WoW: Odeezee (Druid-Ret), Thaone (Mage-Ret)

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Newbryn View Post
    Pretty much this those who aren't used to this style of game play, but when I first started wow I was desperately trying to dodge every fireball coming at me shocked when I kept getting hit.
    Ah, I read that out of context then. My bad.

  13. #73
    Brewmaster Newbryn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Ah, I read that out of context then. My bad.
    It's cool, Brooklyn represent.
    Claymore is Epic again, eat it priscilla fanboys.

  14. #74
    Epic! Milanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odeezee View Post
    games are too easy already as it is. people don't get that making mistakes is a part of learning, it helps you play better next time and as ANet said it is an indication that maybe you are out of your league and need to drop down a level or 2 on the mobs you are after and practice until you have improved enough to go back. there is no shame in failure, it's only a shame if you do not learn anything from it and i for one welcome the challenge!
    No, I agree with this and the similar Asuran/Norn philosophies that a mistake is only a mistake if you didn't learn anything from it. There is no shame in failure, because as long as you can walk away afterwards you can go on and do better.

    THAT SAID, failing when you're playing very well and the AI decided to fuck you over with an insurmountable challenge because it just happened to run into that pack of mobs over there...that doesn't teach much except that the AI is mean. There's a balance, is what I'm saying. And I'm sure (as Arena Net has hinted at) that mobs will have all sorts of different behaviors, and we'll have both easier and harder zones with easier and harder NPCs to fight within them, thus giving fun experiences to everyone who will then go on and live happily ever after in fluffy rainbow marshmallow pony land.

    At least, that's what they think they'll be doing when the Asuran Neuro-Etheric Transmitters go off...
    Last edited by Milanor; 2011-11-18 at 12:26 AM.

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  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Odeezee View Post
    dude, this is NOT GW1. the mechanics used in GW2 are so different how can you even compare them? you are complaining about a non issue. you can snare, gap close, switch to ranged weapon, play smarter, etc why do you act like you are not given the tools to make sure that you do not run into the problems of GW1? improved AI is a great thing for the game overall as it teaches people how to adapt to different attack strategies and learn the combat system used in GW2 more naturally and gets people who mainly PvE ready for PvP if they choose to do so. i can't believe people want static combat in a game like GW2, makes me sad. bah!
    You should really read the arguments presented, as they address and defeat all the arguments you presented above. Because, as poster above put me "AI being mean" isn't going to teach anyone anything, because there is absolutely nothing to teach. It's simply unavoidable that at certain points you will for any number of reasons miss a runner who will pull extras that will wipe you if enemy runs and kites you. This isn't about skill, it's about not being able to remain permanently vigilant - that is simply a limitation of human mind that remains in far more stressing situations then gaming, like wars and radar operators for example.

    Once that happens enough times, people will get pissed off and start leaving, just like happened in GW1. Remember - the game may be different, but it will still be played by people who have finite patience with AI being annoying.

  16. #76
    Herald of the Titans theredviola's Avatar
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    Am I the only person who doesn't think this mechanic is going to be as "doom n' gloom" as other are making it out to be?

    I can understand the argument of mobs running away to another pack being an issue, but won't classes have abilities to deal with that sort of thing? Stuns, snares, roots, etc?

  17. #77
    Well I only see a few who are expressing concerns about it but yeah, you'll have the tools to use to keep them from fleeing.

  18. #78
    Herald of the Titans theredviola's Avatar
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    As long as there's no dazing (like in WoW) when your back is turned, then I rather like the idea of the challenge of mobs that evade.

  19. #79
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky_ View Post
    Warriors no longer spike with shadow step mechanics from W/A and/or carry sprint-like stances to cancel frenzy? They also don't force you to pop WD, wait out about 20 secs and then pressure you out using you for easy adrenaline build up for next 40?

    Man the game must have changed a lot.
    You're the one seeming to say that warriors aren't/weren't doing hot in the game, so if you can name all this shit how aren't they doing well?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    I don't think this will be the case at all.

    It's more natural and logical to teach a new player to MMOs that they can move out of the way of a fireball. Rather than explain they failed the save because their Willpower rating was too low and they should have stacked more Fire Resist.

    I remember years ago... my sister playing Warcraft for the first time and she was trying to dodge the missiles the rat-creatures in Lakeshire shot at her. I explained she didn't actually have to run all over the place. That the missiles would hit her no matter what she did and resistances and armor were factors in her survival.

    She looked at me like, :|

    Breaking MMO combat conventions to a more action type setting is more accessible to those that are not well versed in what Expertise, Focus and Strikethrough mean or do.
    LOL! I did the exact thing as your sister when i first started playing, i was running all over the place trying to dodge spells and arrows xD
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by theredviola View Post
    As long as there's no dazing (like in WoW) when your back is turned, then I rather like the idea of the challenge of mobs that evade.
    Just to touch on this for a second and some of the last few pages.

    A lot these type of concerns are just not factors in a combat system such as GW2. Each class has a wealth of Controlling options. It's not simply a matter of saying, "well you are responsible for dodging things."

    GW2 combat is in motion.

    Many skills with cast times can be performed while moving. When a baddie is running away you don't have to wait 2.5 seconds while Fireball casts hoping to catch him before going out of range. You can CHASE HIM and still nuke away.

    Many weapon skills have stuns, snares and breaks of all kinds as part of the standard arsenal. From a rifle butt to interrupt a spell, chopping at a foe's legs with an axe or pinning them to the ground with magic.

    That goblin running off while a player frantically smashes their Heroic Strike key or stares at a cast bar is the paradigm of a totally different style and pace of combat.

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