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  1. #81
    Herald of the Titans theredviola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Just to touch on this for a second and some of the last few pages.

    A lot these type of concerns are just not factors in a combat system such as GW2. Each class has a wealth of Controlling options. It's not simply a matter of saying, "well you are responsible for dodging things."

    GW2 combat is in motion.

    Many skills with cast times can be performed while moving. When a baddie is running away you don't have to wait 2.5 seconds while Fireball casts hoping to catch him before going out of range. You can CHASE HIM and still nuke away.

    Many weapon skills have stuns, snares and breaks of all kinds as part of the standard arsenal. From a rifle butt to interrupt a spell, chopping at a foe's legs with an axe or pinning them to the ground with magic.

    That goblin running off while a player frantically smashes their Heroic Strike key or stares at a cast bar is the paradigm of a totally different style and pace of combat.
    And I love that mechanic. Putting mechanics such as advanced AI in game, as well as the abilities to deal with them (running while casting, snaring, etc.) puts the responsibility in the players hands rather than the mechanics of the game's. If... that makes any sense...

  2. #82
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Just to touch on this for a second and some of the last few pages.

    A lot these type of concerns are just not factors in a combat system such as GW2. Each class has a wealth of Controlling options. It's not simply a matter of saying, "well you are responsible for dodging things."

    GW2 combat is in motion.

    Many skills with cast times can be performed while moving. When a baddie is running away you don't have to wait 2.5 seconds while Fireball casts hoping to catch him before going out of range. You can CHASE HIM and still nuke away.

    Many weapon skills have stuns, snares and breaks of all kinds as part of the standard arsenal. From a rifle butt to interrupt a spell, chopping at a foe's legs with an axe or pinning them to the ground with magic.

    That goblin running off while a player frantically smashes their Heroic Strike key or stares at a cast bar is the paradigm of a totally different style and pace of combat.
    Although your post is 100% awesome and right, i don't think he's talking about that xD

    I think he's saying that he's 100% ok with these things as long as if the mob dodges behind him and hits him in the back that he wont be hit with a 90% snare like in wow
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  3. #83
    Warchief Maarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky_ View Post
    The issue is essentially the same why MMOs don't make every single monster extremely challenging. It's just not fun after a short while. You can google for the answer to this issue, as there are several very good articles by game makers who spell out the reasons much better then I ever could.
    it's interesting to make this statement after nearly a whole mmo-generation longs for harder more challenging NPC-AI. I didn't know that there already were attempts to cope with this problem... and that those failed. I can see how better enemy AI would be a problem with standard mmos though: Fights were not designed to be dynamic, you had to stay to take advantage of most of the skills. As someone said before, most skills in GW2 can be cast while moving and dodging (even in the enemy direction, used offensively) are a core designpoint.

    Could you link be one of those very good articles by gamers please?I'm afraid I wasn't able to find one via google. Thanks!

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Durzlla View Post
    Although your post is 100% awesome and right, i don't think he's talking about that xD

    I think he's saying that he's 100% ok with these things as long as if the mob dodges behind him and hits him in the back that he wont be hit with a 90% snare like in wow
    I was using his post as a talking point since he mentioned dazing and so forth. Was address a general sentiment over the last few pages rooted in a combat system totally different than GW2.

  5. #85
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    I was using his post as a talking point since he mentioned dazing and so forth. Was address a general sentiment over the last few pages rooted in a combat system totally different than GW2.
    Ah ok, my bad
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Mkalafut View Post
    In real life if someone was beating on you with a mace to yo face, or hittin you with a sword, would you stand and take it or run away? I'd run. That may be just me.
    You must be one of those people made of steel. Honored to meet you
    OnT: This is really nice, but I also expected this so not like my mind is blown or anything. One thing that really annoys me in other mmos are the dull npcs

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Milanor View Post
    THAT SAID, failing when you're playing very well and the AI decided to fuck you over with an insurmountable challenge because it just happened to run into that pack of mobs over there...that doesn't teach much except that the AI is mean. There's a balance, is what I'm saying. And I'm sure (as Arena Net has hinted at) that mobs will have all sorts of different behaviors, and we'll have both easier and harder zones with easier and harder NPCs to fight within them, thus giving fun experiences to everyone who will then go on and live happily ever after in fluffy rainbow marshmallow pony land.

    At least, that's what they think they'll be doing when the Asuran Neuro-Etheric Transmitters go off...
    see, now you are under the impression that your "best" is actually the best way you can approach mobs in GW2. i gave you a very easy and plausible way out, but you would rather have dumbed down mobs instead of leveling up or coming up with a different approach and i just don't get why. even the ANet devs themselves said that there will be ways for players to gauge their skill level relative to the type and level of mobs you are facing so you do not waste your time getting your ass handed to you if you cannot handle it. there is no shame in going for lower level mobs until you feel more comfortable handling higher level and/or more complex mobs. this is what i really don't understand from you people using the argument of the mob aggroing more mobs when it is close to death, why can't you just run 'til they reset if you don't think you cannot handle them all? i mean what do you do, just stand there and take it to the face?

    btw, the only way AI can be "mean" (which i think is ridiculous) is if the devs are not very creative and have to use gimmick mechanics to make a certain level or type of mob hard like enraging.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky_ View Post
    You should really read the arguments presented, as they address and defeat all the arguments you presented above. Because, as poster above put me "AI being mean" isn't going to teach anyone anything, because there is absolutely nothing to teach. It's simply unavoidable that at certain points you will for any number of reasons miss a runner who will pull extras that will wipe you if enemy runs and kites you. This isn't about skill, it's about not being able to remain permanently vigilant - that is simply a limitation of human mind that remains in far more stressing situations then gaming, like wars and radar operators for example.

    Once that happens enough times, people will get pissed off and start leaving, just like happened in GW1. Remember - the game may be different, but it will still be played by people who have finite patience with AI being annoying.
    haha, first read my response above this one. second, i mean wow this is NOT GW1, i.e. you can go anywhere you are not lead through the content so if you are level 20 and you are getting the snot kicked out of you by the level 21 mobs, guess what? you can go find some level 19-20 mobs to kill either until you level or get better. there is no such thing as mean mobs unless ANet deliberately use gimmicks for mobs like enrage. this is not GW1 or any other themepark mmo so that argument is completely irrelevant.

    people want easymode, why? WHY??!!! you have OPTIONS as to which content you can tackle at ANY level and difficulty so why ask for dumbed down mobs? if you don't like that harpies are ranged and run for help after snaring you, then go and kill a different type or mob or try attacking them by standing between the mob and it's friends so you have more time to react?
    Last edited by Odeezee; 2011-11-21 at 01:42 AM.
    Cherish the quiet...before my STORM!!!

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  8. #88
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odeezee View Post
    see, now you are under the impression that your "best" is actually the best way you can approach mobs in GW2. i gave you a very easy and plausible way out, but you would rather have dumbed down mobs instead of leveling up or coming up with a different approach and i just don't get why. even the ANet devs themselves said that there will be ways for players to gauge their skill level relative to the type and level of mobs you are facing so you do not waste your time getting your ass handed to you if you cannot handle it. there is no shame in going for lower level mobs until you feel more comfortable handling higher level and/or more complex mobs. this is what i really don't understand from you people using the argument of the mob aggroing more mobs when it is close to death, why can't you just run 'til they reset if you don't think you cannot handle them all. i mean what do you do, just stand there and take it to the face?

    btw, the only way AI can be "mean" (which i think is ridiculous) is if the devs are not very creative and have to use gimmick mechanics to make a certain level or type of mob hard like enraging.
    haha, first read my response above this one. second, i mean wow this is NOT GW1, i.e. you can go anywhere you are not lead through the content so if you are level 20 and you are getting the snot kicked out of you by the level 21 mobs, guess what? you can go find some level 19-20 mobs to kill either until you level or get better. there is no such thing as mean mobs unless ANet deliberately use gimmicks for mobs like enrage. this is not GW1 or any other themepark mmo so that argument is completely irrelevant.

    people want easymode, why? WHY??!!! you have OPTIONS as to which content you can tackle at ANY level and difficulty so why ask for dumbed down mobs? if you don't like that harpies are ranged and run for help after snaring you, then go and kill a different type or mob or try attacking them by standing between the mob and it's friends so you have more time to react.
    lol idk, but just from seeing my roommate cheat on demon souls (a game designed around being hard) i've come to the conclusion that most people can't deal with the fact that they're not good enough at the content and therefore it must be broken.
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  9. #89
    Sign me up for smarter AI and tougher mob behavior!

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky_ View Post
    You should really read the arguments presented, as they address and defeat all the arguments you presented above. Because, as poster above put me "AI being mean" isn't going to teach anyone anything, because there is absolutely nothing to teach. It's simply unavoidable that at certain points you will for any number of reasons miss a runner who will pull extras that will wipe you if enemy runs and kites you. This isn't about skill, it's about not being able to remain permanently vigilant - that is simply a limitation of human mind that remains in far more stressing situations then gaming, like wars and radar operators for example.

    Once that happens enough times, people will get pissed off and start leaving, just like happened in GW1. Remember - the game may be different, but it will still be played by people who have finite patience with AI being annoying.
    Mobs run away in WoW. Through my time playing I certainly got a hell of a lot better at either killing them before they could aggro more mobs, or using my abilities to stop them from escaping. What exactly would you call that 'getting better'?. Did it not increase my 'skill?

  11. #91
    @Odeezee

    I wouldn't worry about it too much. It seems ANet has grown up and they don't like gimmick mechanics. High-end areas in GW:Prophecies/Factions/Nightfall consisted of huge AoE mobs usually spawning on top of unsuspecting players. The tactic was to send one suicidal guy in, pop the mobs and then pull the groups separately. Also, Urgoz/Deep has a lot of death rooms, if you go in, doors close behind you and like 40 mobs spawn on top of your party.

    Luckily they seem to have dropped that for EotN, I don't remember any ridiculous mechanics in EotN dungeons, so I'd assume GW2 will be similar.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by athrl View Post
    @Odeezee

    I wouldn't worry about it too much. It seems ANet has grown up and they don't like gimmick mechanics. High-end areas in GW:Prophecies/Factions/Nightfall consisted of huge AoE mobs usually spawning on top of unsuspecting players. The tactic was to send one suicidal guy in, pop the mobs and then pull the groups separately. Also, Urgoz/Deep has a lot of death rooms, if you go in, doors close behind you and like 40 mobs spawn on top of your party.

    Luckily they seem to have dropped that for EotN, I don't remember any ridiculous mechanics in EotN dungeons, so I'd assume GW2 will be similar.
    bah, that made me log on to go and try out those dungeons now. damn you! *shakes fist*
    Cherish the quiet...before my STORM!!!

    Guild Wars 2: Odeezee (Necromancer) || TERA: Odeezee (Archer-Ret) || SWTOR: Odeezee (Sith Inquisitor-Ret/Jedi Sage-Ret) || GW: Odeezee Fosho (Elementalist-Ret)
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  13. #93
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odeezee View Post
    bah, that made me log on to go and try out those dungeons now. damn you! *shakes fist*
    lol take me with you!!
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Durzlla View Post
    lol take me with you!!
    not sure how much help i would be as i have only done one dungeon in the Shiverpeak Mountains, but if you are interested hit me up in game i am on now.
    Cherish the quiet...before my STORM!!!

    Guild Wars 2: Odeezee (Necromancer) || TERA: Odeezee (Archer-Ret) || SWTOR: Odeezee (Sith Inquisitor-Ret/Jedi Sage-Ret) || GW: Odeezee Fosho (Elementalist-Ret)
    Aion: Odeezee (Sorcerer-Ret), ODZ (Spirit Master-Ret) || War
    : Odeezee (Sorcerer-Ret) || AoC: Odeezee (Demonologist-Ret) || WoW: Odeezee (Druid-Ret), Thaone (Mage-Ret)

  15. #95
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odeezee View Post
    not sure how much help i would be as i have only done one dungeon in the Shiverpeak Mountains, but if you are interested hit me up in game i am on now.
    i haven't done any of them lol, but i really want to do them! My character name is Sypa Ravenhowl
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  16. #96
    thanks Mif! that's what I would have posted

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