PvE Guide for the Arms Warrior

[Lohe]

You use Rend before CS because CS does not improve the damage of Rend so it's a waste of debuff time to apply Rend during it. The reason for the MS, Rend, CS, MS, OP, OP opener is that you get two OPs during the first CS (Also you stack LttS faster than opening with something that isn't MS).

For AoE, if you're specced into Blood and Thunder you want to get that up first obviously, at least if the mobs are going to live for a while. One thing that is good to know about blood and thunder is that if you use it to refresh Rend it will cause Rend to immediately tick on all targets in addition to the thunderclap damage.
Follow this up with Bladestorm (don't couple Bladestorm with Sweeping Strikes unless the mobs won't last longer than the duration of Bladestorm)
Now use Sweeping Strikes and resume the normal rotation but replace Slam with Thunderclap if there's enough targets to make it worthwhile. Remember to use Heroic Leap while Sweeping Strikes is up because it mirrors all the hits (Sweeping Strikes also mirror all the Thunderclap hits). Use Heroic Strike over Cleave while SS is up because Cleave only gets one extra hit and 2 HS hits does more damage than 4 Cleave hits.
I'm fairly sure you shouldn't WW as Arms, it just doesn't seem worth it. Depending on amount of targets this may actually not be true if you have Gurthalak since each WW hit can proc a tentacle.

It's also going to depend a bit on what things look like. For example, on Yor'sahj you may want to use Sweeping Strikes before Bladestorm while the mobs gather up and then use Bladestorm when they're all in place.

[Namso]

I saw few best warriors (Ruffwar for ex) doing Battle Shout/Commanding Shout + Charge + Berserker Rage + Mortal strike + CS + Rend and start normal rotation.
Is there any reason for that?
Do you use rend before CS? Why do they use rend after a Mortal strike + CS?

There's a lot of differing opening rotations people like to use. The reason why the rotation you stated Has Mortal Strike -> Colossus Smash -> Rend is because it will allow the following two consecutive Overpowers to benefit from the 100% armor penetration Colossus Smash provides. I personally use Rend right off the bat to provide the damage over time as well as the Blood Frenzy debuff (4% increased physical damage) and then Colossus Smash -> Mortal Strike -> Overpower -> etc. This allows my initial Mortal Strike (which is further buffed by Juggernaut( 25% more crit chance to the first Mortal Strike used)) to take advantage of the Colossus Smash debuff for strong opening burst. Furthermore, I use Deadly Calm followed by Recklessness right after that for some impressive damage output in the first ~20 seconds of the encounter.

Also I noticed that I can not use reckelness and Deadly calm on same time. Is it normal? So do you use burst after, the second CS?
After the open rotation, at which time do you Burst?

Blizzard made a change in that Recklessness cannot be used during Deadly Calm and vice versa because it was deemed overpowered in the pvp environment (I believe that was the cause, correct me if I'm wrong). You typically use Deadly Calm and then Recklessness + Inner Rage since once Deadly Calm is done you'll be at nearly maxed out rage to take full advantage of Recklessness and Heroic Strike (great with the 2 piece). Here is how I start off my burst:

Battle Shout/Commanding Shout + Charge + Berserker Rage + Golemblood Potion -> Rend -> Colossus Smash -> Mortal Strike + Heroic Strike -> Deadly Calm -> do the standard rotation -> Recklessness + Inner Rage once Deadly Calm is off cooldown -> spam Mortal Strike and Slam during Recklessness and throw in cheap Heroic Strikes if your rage allows you to.

I made a macro burst:

/cast deadly calm
/Cast reckelness
/startattack

And When I used this macro, reckelness is not used. I do not understand why ?

Again, Blizzard changed it so you can't use the two abilities together at all. Only one after the other.

You said, for Slam it has to be used when overpower, CS and MS are on CD. I noticed, sometimes, overpower is not on CD and not proc (something like nothing happens for 1s). So in that case, I decided to use Slam and I have a proc of overpower on the same time the Slam was used. And, I have got a little delay for the MS. I am not sure if it a good option or not.

All you need to remember is to never under any circumstances delay Mortal Strike. Don't use Overpower instead of it or anything like that. Your rotation revolves around Mortal Strike. Slam is only ever used once all three of your abilities (Mortal Strike, Overpower, Colossus Smash) are on cooldown, unless of course you're in a state of Recklessness where you neglect Overpower for the duration.

With the Stance dance, I encountered few problems when I use slam, it makes me switch stance and hit after. I lose 1 s for that and I need to spam Slam on rotation in order to make it. (I mean I push twice my bind, one to make me change on berserk stance, and one to use it).

My macro

#showtooltip Slam
/cast Berserker Stance
/cast Slam

It seems a little clunky at first, but you just got to get used to it. You just end up passively stance-dance and you basically don't even notice you're doing it. It's as if you're not even doing it! Also remember that changing stances has a GCD of its own. If you messed up by switching to Battle Stance or something weird, then yes, you will experience a delay since you'll have to switch back to Berserker Stance.

When you have 2 overpower proc after a mortal strike. Do you use it twice?
For reckelness, some people said not use overpower during reckelness's time. What are the reasons for That ?

Yeah, using two Overpowers without delaying Mortal Strike is fine. Keep doing that! The reason why you don't use Overpower during Recklessness is because your harder-hitting attacks in Mortal Strike and Slam will have at least a 75%+ chance of scoring a critical strike so you want to use those instead of Overpower, which is already an almost guaranteed critical strike without Recklessness up anyway.

When sudden death proc, is CS take priority in the rotation in case you do not have it? I mean use CS before a MS (and delay the MS a little)

No, don't delay Mortal Strike ever. Use Colossus Smash after that. Just use good judgement when dealing with Colossus Smash procs.

On multi NPC, for the thunderclap, do you use it as soon it is up or only for just refresh it?
In case you have got the talent Blood and Thunder

If you do not have the talent, do you use Thunderclap or not ?

First you need to Rend your primary target and then follow up with Mortal Strike -> Thunder Clap. You only use Thunder Clap to refresh Rend on all of your targets if you have specced into Blood and Thunder. If you are not specced into that, you will only use Thunder Clap when there are at least 6+ targets in range, since Thunder Clap ends up being stronger than Slam.

Same, on multi NPC Aoe, if you have got the talent Blood and Thunder, Rend + thunderclap bring you a lot DPS? I noticed warriors do not change their talent and keep their 3 point on Incite.

Yes, if there are a lot of targets, using Rend + Thunder Clap will bring you a lot of extra dps since Rend will tick on every target hit by Thunder Clap.

If you got the talent Blood and Thunder, your rotation in the following orders?
Rend>Thunderclap> Bladestorm> WW>SS >Cleave?

No, don't use Whirlwind at all. It's pathetically weak and costs too much rage. Don't forget about using Mortal Strike either. You can't delay that. You can do something like Mortal Strike -> Rend -> Thunder Clap -> Bladestorm -> finish off with Sweeping Strikes if you need to -> Cleave if your rage is high enough during the fight.

If you do not got the talent:
Bladestorm> WW>SS >Cleave?
Do you use thunderclap in that case or no use?

Again, don't use Whirlwind. It's a dps loss. Only use Bladestorm, Sweeping Strikes, and Cleave as your primary AoE attacks. Only use Thunder Clap if there are at least 6+ mobs up at once to deal with (this is only if you have not specced into Blood and Thunder).

[quote[On DPS Bot site, I noticed all best rank DPS's player are arms (and not fury).
Simcraft make Fury > Arm
So I am kind of lost.[/quote]

I personally don't use Simcraft or any site regarding DPS spreadsheets and whatnot, so I'm not familiar with the topic. However, Arms in this tier is definitely superior than Fury. That's why a lot of the top-ranked Warriors are playing Arms instead of Fury.

I made few test on Dummy (5 mn test), on my recount indicated a 23 - 25 k DPS. I do not know if My DPS is correct or not. And I have got few time on Total Damage overpower > MS.

I'm not sure what your ilvl is or anything, but that doesn't seem too bad. Do note that dummy testing is not always an accurate example of what your dps is like since there's no form of incoming rage regeneration from the encounters in raids. It does give you a rough idea, though. If Mortal Strike is not the #1 move on your total damage done, then you are likely delaying it. It should always be #1.


I hope that helps. Good luck!

[epurator]

- I open with rend>MS>CS>OP>MS>OP>Slam not sure if its best seen some people open with MS instead of rend but it allows 2 OPs inside the first CS.
- You can't use deadly calm and recklessness at the same time, you can chain them at the start of the fight during your prepot. Or just safe recklessness for sub 20% if the fight is shorter then 5:30
- You have 5 seconds to use a OP proc, it isn't a dps loss to delay it for 2 gcd so don't delay MS for it.
- I use the standance macro's as well its a bit spammy just get used to it.
- Yes use OP twice if you get the procs that way no reason not to, unless CS is available ofc. Slam does more damage on average during recklessness since OP with 90% crit already doesn't really benefit from it. MS takes priority over CS above 20%.
- I'm not 100% sure about aoe rotations but sweeping strikes and bladestorm both do more damage then thunderclap, just do it once to spread the 4% physical damage debuff (keep it up if stuff stays alive longer) and use the 2 cds after that.
- Arms seems to do much better then fury atm, raped the meters in DS this week, but fury is competitive with high end gear I think. There recently have been some improvements to the arms sim as well and make sure the sim includes rage from damage if you want it to be accurate.
- I never test dps against dummies, only useful for practicing rotations. Do a LFR and post a log/armory in the help dps thread.

Think most of this is already in the guide just read it, its nice. Hope it helps

I tried to use it yesterday.

I made a compare on Majordomo yesterday, and I have got a big problem on Slam. I don't know why.

For example:

77 K DPS Warrior (a great warrior)

MS 66 Hits
Slam 48 hits
Overpower 44 Hits
Melee 79
Heroic Strike 32 hits
Sweeping Strike 28 hits
CS 23 hits
Cleave 2
Exect 20

and on the same of fight for me it is:

61 K DPS

MS 59 hits
Slam 5 hits
Overpower 36 hits
Melee 87
Heroic Strike 46
Sweeping Strike 19
Exec 18

I made more heroic strike but Slam and sweeping strike are my big problem.

I start the fight on battle stance, Battleshout - bersek - charge - Rend and after I used macro to make me change on bersek stance for the 1st Mortal Strike.

My problem is I use Mortal Strike > (if Up CS) > (If Up OP) > Slam > Mortal Strike

Each time I use Slam it makes me change stance (probably I am on Combat stance at that moment), and I have to push twice my slam bind (one for changing stance , and one to use it). Problem is I have my following MS - OP up juste before the end of the slam's cast.

If you have any recommendation, It will be great.

[Bambislayer]

Just registered as i see alot of peeps asking about different addons, mainly needtoknow, tellmewhen and poweraura's set up for Overpower notification.

there is an addon that can do what those 3 addons do in one. It is called weakauras and can be found on curse, this being my first post i can not post the link direct, sry.

to create the OP notification i created an aura from a combat log effect, specifically taste for blood, and gave it a 5 sec timer. This is all from memory but should be correct. any glarign errors and i'll edit.

there are some good youtube tutorials too.

my warrior (Tinklefairy - bloodhoof EU) has only been 85 for less than a week as of writing this but i have used the addon since wrath so my warrior setup is still work in progress but i can share the export code when i am happy with it if wanted.


i actually have 2 trggers for monitoring OP/Taste for blood. an icon to tell me when i have the Taste for Blood Aura displaying the OP icon and a progress (which uses the combat log event i mentioned earlier) bar displaying a countdown of 5 seconds from when the aura proc'd. i was gonna post my export code for my full Arms/Prot setup so far but can not fathom that fancy spoiler box code atm. it is alot of code so wouldn't want to clutter up the page with it.

[Neeshka]

No, don't use Whirlwind at all. It's pathetically weak and costs too much rage. Don't forget about using Mortal Strike either. You can't delay that. You can do something like Mortal Strike -> Rend -> Thunder Clap -> Bladestorm -> finish off with Sweeping Strikes if you need to -> Cleave if your rage is high enough during the fight.
Again, don't use Whirlwind. It's a dps loss. Only use Bladestorm, Sweeping Strikes, and Cleave as your primary AoE attacks. Only use Thunder Clap if there are at least 6+ mobs up at once to deal with (this is only if you have not specced into Blood and Thunder).

How is whirlwind a dps loss on a fight with tons of adds like yorsahj on heroic ?
Are you sure about this ?

[Sherea]

They die in bladestorm anyway

[iddqd]

They die in bladestorm anyway

Then you have strong AOE, on our 25 men tries not a single wave died within my 6 seconds of bladestorm, not even close! Oo
In the case you can hit >8 targets, in my opinion, WW is a lot better than, let's say, Slam?

[Damosapien]

check the numbers... thunder clap, even without blood and thunder hits harder.
its not a dps loss like one idiot said, but it is sub par considering other things available

[epurator]

How is whirlwind a dps loss on a fight with tons of adds like yorsahj on heroic ?
Are you sure about this ?

I confirmed it yesterday. I watched top world rank DPS on World Of logs.

For example, on Yorsaj HM fight:

Number one Damage is WW. They did not use, cleave or BS.

[Sherea]

I confirmed it yesterday. I watched top world rank DPS on World Of logs.

For example, on Yorsaj HM fight:

Number one Damage is WW. They did not use, cleave or BS.

People not using WW still doesn't mean it's a dps loss, they might all be wrong. But Bladestorm, HL, TC are all more valuable to use and if adds still haven't died then well, I reckon your guild is doing something wrong on AoE

[iddqd]

Hm i say, i start Bladestorm when all adds are clustered, and when it ends, it takes about... 10 seconds to kill the adds?

[Lohe]

check the numbers... thunder clap, even without blood and thunder hits harder.
its not a dps loss like one idiot said, but it is sub par considering other things available

Well, because of the 6 second interval on both TC and OP situations where you have to press either Slam or WW can come up.

I confirmed it yesterday. I watched top world rank DPS on World Of logs.

For example, on Yorsaj HM fight:

Number one Damage is WW. They did not use, cleave or BS.

Blade storm hits register as Whirlwind, that's why it has so much damage done

[luctus]

One question for someone trying to do better on his alt.

I never find that I have enough rage to fill in with both slam and heroic strike, so is there one to choose over the other and should I drop incite if slam is the better option?

Keep in mind my warrior is sitting at 375 ilvl, so my rage generation isnt great for current content.

[Burchoid]

I confirmed it yesterday. I watched top world rank DPS on World Of logs.

For example, on Yorsaj HM fight:

Number one Damage is WW. They did not use, cleave or BS.

Did you know Bladestorm shows up as WW in WOL? Have you ever looked at your own logs after pwning face with bladestorm?

[Zellviren]

One question for someone trying to do better on his alt.

I never find that I have enough rage to fill in with both slam and heroic strike, so is there one to choose over the other and should I drop incite if slam is the better option?

Keep in mind my warrior is sitting at 375 ilvl, so my rage generation isnt great for current content.

Stick with Slam and feel free to spec out of Incite assuming there's a better place to put the points; limit your Heroic Strike use to when Deadly Calm is up and work from there. Remember that the only time you should be using Heroic Strike more is if you're routinely rage capping. Without the set bonus, even Inner Rage is technically a useless cooldown if you're never actually rage capped (outside of burst, of course), because you couldn't fit any more Heroic Strikes in, anyway.

[Espada]

So... "dumb" question. It is really worth it keep MSing at CD in the Execute phase, instead of using it to refresh rend+lamb? I know the rotation in execute isn't crystal clear, but... looking at logs a 30 rage Execute seems to usually double the damage of a MS. Being the same rage cost (10 rage return of sudden death), the increased crit on MS+Enrage really does outweigth that increased damage of Execute over MS per GCD? The 4pc bonus may be tip more the balance, but even so...

PD: In the FAQ, the talent Sudden Death is missing.

[bigbad]

MSing on CD isn't optimal sub 20%. Should at least fit in more executes when CS is up if rage allows ofc.

[Lohe]

So... "dumb" question. It is really worth it keep MSing at CD in the Execute phase, instead of using it to refresh rend+lamb?

In the Execute phase use MS if any of the following are true:

1. Rend is about to fall off.
2. LttS is about to fall off.
3. Colossus Smash is not on the target
4. You have less than 30 rage
5. You are not enraged via Wrecking Crew

[Burchoid]

In the Execute phase use MS if any of the following are true:

1. Rend is about to fall off.
2. LttS is about to fall off.
3. Colossus Smash is not on the target
4. You have less than 30 rage
5. You are not enraged via Wrecking Crew

Which leaves few times where you wouldn't use it... especially with 4piece.

---------- Post added 2012-01-13 at 12:30 PM ----------

I made another little video with more details on power auras and how to use the macros for stance dancing:

http://youtu.be/RF7jbWokKk8

I talk to a lot of warriors and getting this stuff right seems to be the most frustrating part of getting into Arms warrior dpsing.

[Espada]

Yes, that's the normal rotation, even so, I was questioning it's validity. Although it's true that the 10 rage are only refunded if you spend all your rage, so execute is more costly than MS when fully charged, it really makes me wonder if you really have to care about 3/4/5, if you don't have 4pc yet. I suppose somewhere will be a simulation that justifies keeping MS on CD, at least under those conditions... which certainly don't give many spaces for not MSing.