Would you support killing 10/25 - New 16 man only

[Grogo]

The title says it all. There is such a division between 10 and 25 man raiding. Some advantages to both and of course both camps are always bitching about which one takes more skill.

The questions is this. Would you support killing 10 man and 25 man entirely to meet in the middle ground, for obvious reasons.

What be the perfect group size? 15 sounds good but too close to the 10 man camp, 20 seems ok but too close to the 25 man camp. I would like to say 17 man would be good but that seems like an awkward number.

I think 16 man is the number. All dungeons can be balanced once. Seems like a good medium here. The norm could be:

2 tanks

4 healers

10 dps

Thoughts?

[Hayden272]

The title says it all. There is such a division between 10 and 25 man raiding. Some advantages to both and of course both camps are always bitching about which one takes more skill.

The questions is this. Would you support killing 10 man and 25 man entirely to meet in the middle ground, for obvious reasons.

What be the perfect group size? 15 sounds good but too close to the 10 man camp, 20 seems ok but too close to the 25 man camp. I would like to say 17 man would be good but that seems like an awkward number.

I think 16 man is the number. All dungeons can be balanced once. Seems like a good medium here. The norm could be:

2 tanks

4 healers

10 dps

Thoughts?

15 too close, but 1 number above it is cool? ... awkward number /sigh if you were going to find a mid point it'd be 17 or 18, also its Comp, not camp, Camp has an entirely different meaning... as for the whole midway point idea, no we already have 2 making a 3rd would just make recruitment and everything else harder. Besides Blizzard balancing, whattajoke m8 go on the ptr do 25man normal, do 10 man normal /sigh.

fyi i've done both 10 and 25 man raiding so don't think im bringing up the age old flame of a 25 raider vs a 10 raider because im a tool, seriously 10man is a joke next patch unless they change the ptr and balance it out.

[Dietrik]

Since we are divided into groups of 5, it would have to be a multiple of 5... 15man or 20man would be your options, both are too close to 10 or 25man respectively for it to be worth it for balancing encounters.

EDIT: I would like to raid 25m again but we don't seem to have more than 15 people interested on any given night too much for 10m and we have to sit people out, but too little for 25m and the majority of our guild don't like pugging raid spots for guild runs.

[Tharkkun]

The title says it all. There is such a division between 10 and 25 man raiding. Some advantages to both and of course both camps are always bitching about which one takes more skill.

The questions is this. Would you support killing 10 man and 25 man entirely to meet in the middle ground, for obvious reasons.

What be the perfect group size? 15 sounds good but too close to the 10 man camp, 20 seems ok but too close to the 25 man camp. I would like to say 17 man would be good but that seems like an awkward number.

I think 16 man is the number. All dungeons can be balanced once. Seems like a good medium here. The norm could be:

2 tanks

4 healers

10 dps

Thoughts?

People will cry about something no matter what size you would propose to change it to. People wanted smaller tight knit raids. They introduced 10m. Then they wanted equal loot. So they balanced it now. Then they wanted recognition that the difficulty was the same...it goes on and on. Blizzard does their best to try and keep it equal. When people feel the need to flex their epeen the larger size will always be pointed to as the best.

[Grogo]

also its Comp, not camp, Camp has an entirely different meaning... .

I meant camp..I meant that meaning. As in: there are two camps with strongs feelings

[Deployed]

I prefer there to be a choice.

I know more guilds choose 10-man over 25man, but remember people thought NO ONE would do 25-man in Cata. They are, and for the most part, they're doing so because they can and they enjoy it.

If it wasn't a design headache, I would prefer them to have 40-man, 30-man, 20-man and 15-man settings, but that's me being silly. I don't want to wait a year for every single raid.

[ssviolett]

You want to completly destroy old famous guilds ? No, bad idea, let it stay as it is now. Some people enjoy 25 man raiding, while someone prefer small groups.

[Grogo]

Maybe 20 is the magic number ?

---------- Post added 2011-11-16 at 02:52 PM ----------

You want to completly destroy old famous guilds ? No, bad idea, let it stay as it is now. Some people enjoy 25 man raiding, while someone prefer small groups.

Old famous groups were destroyed at 40 man...no?

[ssviolett]

If it wasn't a design headache, I would prefer them to have 40-man, 30-man, 20-man and 15-man settings, but that's me being silly. I don't want to wait a year for every single raid.

Actually this. I know it will be impossible to balance and never happen, but it would be cool - at least 3 group formats - 40\25\10.

---------- Post added 2011-11-16 at 02:54 PM ----------

Maybe 20 is the magic number ?

---------- Post added 2011-11-16 at 02:52 PM ----------



Old famous groups were destroyed at 40 man...no?

Some of them for sure was.

[Blackmist]

No. Choice is good. Some like the epic feel, some like a small group of friends.

The ideal solution is for the instance to adapt itself to the number of players you have, but that's really not going to happen in WoW.

[luizofoca]

why dont return the 20 man runs like it was zg and anquiraj ???

[Kurzior]

No. Plain and simple.

Currently, there's enough choice for large guilds between either running multiple 10 man runs or going to 25s, while small guilds don't get shafted by being denied access to better gear in 25 man raids as was the case in WotLK.

Another point, what exactly is the problem people seem to have with the current raid sizes that these suggestions keep coming up? I can only come up with 2 problems in the current setting.
1.) There are guilds with some number of people that is too many for 10s and not enough for 25s. I can understand that, but there are workarounds to deal with that problem that don't involve destroying the setup of a much larger percentage of guilds worldwide who work just fine in the current system.
2.) People aren't happy with the role scaling from 10s->25s, by which I mean 2 tanks in 10 man, 2 tanks in 25 man while there is a larger percentage of dps players in 25s and the same percentage of healers (2-3 in 10s and 5-6 in 25s). Again, I can understand this, but that won't be fixed by moving to another raid size alone. Changing that means a rework of the core design philosophy for boss fights in WoW.

I do agree with what Blackmist said, in a perfect world, the raid scales to the number of people you bring, but that's just too big of a design change to reasonably hope for in the near future.

[Fmp]

16 man raids, my grid would look awful

[Deleted]

I don't think this is a good idea at all.

People will always complain no matter what happens, just have to ignore the 10 vs 25 argument and do what you enjoy the most. 10 and 25 is a huge gap between # of players, but some people prefer a tighter group of people, I prefer 10mans because instead of waiting for 24 people to not fail, you need 9 people to not fail.

FYI I don't think 40man guilds were destroyed at all, if i recall correctly most of them didn't even run with 40 people in raids at the end.

[FieryBull]

It can't be 16 because you need groups of 5 people. (Some spells are working with groups)

[Mudkiper]

Go back to the wotlk system where you could run 10 and 25 in one reset with lower gear in 10, problem solved.

[Blackmist]

Go back to the wotlk system where you could run 10 and 25 in one reset with lower gear in 10, problem solved.

Yes, and why don't you make us give up our seats on the bus for 25 man raiders while you're at it.

[Deleted]

25man raiding is currently fine for me, not too much nor too little. 10man ''raiding'' for me, is a joke, note that it is completely my opinion, you can have yours too. It doesn't seem like raiding at all for me, just an enhanced 5man dungeon. I can understand if some people raid 10mans for alt runs if their guild doesn't have enough people interested in alt runs and they don't want to pug.

[Kunz]

You want to completly destroy old famous guilds ? No, bad idea, let it stay as it is now. Some people enjoy 25 man raiding, while someone prefer small groups.

I loved 40 man raiding o.O But some idiot removed that

[TyrianFC]

I'd support it, but prefer 15 man if you were going to pick a number between 10 and 25.