1. #1
    High Overlord Kmb2603's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    144

    how much crit should i have as a disc priest?

    it looks like i will be tank healing, and then throwing Poh in for some raid healing helping : )


    this is my healing set up that im for sure of for my 10 man tonight

    me(disc priest)/ Resto druid/ Possible pug or another resto druid

    so far i have about 2.24 spirit +10.84% haste and 16.43 crit

    i did have like a lot more spirit, but i reforged out of spirt for haste


    soooo how much crit should i be running with?

    thank you : )

  2. #2
    Field Marshal Elyssia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Under a bridge
    Posts
    69
    You're going to need enough spirit to be hit capped... last thing you need is to start missing on smites... ( pretty sure )
    but i haven't actually ever looked and i don't raid on my disc priest :P

  3. #3
    High Overlord Kmb2603's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    144
    im pretty sure i have plenty enough spirit, i could be wrong though : )

    i also know i could use a little bit more haste,

    but im completely unfor sure how my crit is??


    hopefully someone will know

    : )

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Elyssia View Post
    You're going to need enough spirit to be hit capped... last thing you need is to start missing on smites... ( pretty sure )
    but i haven't actually ever looked and i don't raid on my disc priest :P
    What? there's a glyph for holy fire and smite, gives you 18% hit.
    OP - what are you currently healing? if you can get a holy paladin, that's pretty much perfect raid synergy right there. You absorb a good chunk of AE damage from PoH. Druid heals all that damage, Paladin watches tanks with you supporting him.

    If you have good DPS, then you're stats are fine IMO. If you lack DPS you need more spirit so you can get more mana back and heal for a longer duration fight.

    But really, it's your own personal preference. Just watch out for whats happening to you in fights.
    i.e - I am running oom on fights a lot..
    I can't get heals off fast enough on some fights.. stuff like that.

    Are you AA/A spec?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Elyssia View Post
    You're going to need enough spirit to be hit capped... last thing you need is to start missing on smites... ( pretty sure )
    but i haven't actually ever looked and i don't raid on my disc priest :P
    Ummm ... doesn't spirit convert to hit for shadow-spec only? Otherwise there'd be no need for the glyph ...

  6. #6
    Haven't read ALL the comments but on my priest as far as I'm aware…*spirit>mastery>haste>crit.

    To 'hit cap' your smites you can get the 2ndary glyph for +18% hit on it and holy… fire(?) I think it is called. I forget.

    If anything based on my knowledge of the 2ndary stat priority system I'd say crit doesn't matter. reforge for most spirit, then crit + haste to mastery, and then left over haste (if any) to mastery.

    I may be wrong since mastery is just +bubble and afaik that would be for 'raid healing' as a priest. I'm shadow on mine, not so aware…*maybe haste is more important. Anywho I'd like to know too so if I end up healing on him in the future!
    Quote Originally Posted by Badpaladin
    South Park's 'Gay Fish' was actually a lot catchier than a lot of Kanye songs.* Yeah.

  7. #7
    First of all, the talent that converts spirit to hit rating is in the second tier of the shadow tree; and you should never EVER go that deep into the shadow tree as disc. There is a major glyph that will hit-cap you for atonement purposes.

    Second, the spirit>mastery>haste>crit idea is FALSE. This is usually pushed by people who gear/reforge themselves based on crappy simulators like Mr. Robot. The fact of the matter is that as disc, your primary form of regeneration will come from abilities that restore mana based on how big your mana pool is. Therefore, the better geared you become, the less spirit you will need, usually. Therefore, there is a limit on how much spirit you need, and this is roughly based on what your ilvl is (since every piece of gear of the same ilvl has the same intellect for that slot, you can think of it that way). Without knowing how well you are geared, it is tough to tell how much spirit you will need, but 2200 will be the absolute MAXIMUM you need if you are in Firelands gear. A lot of people, as they get more heroic FL gear tend to move towards 1800 spirit. After that point, spirit becomes USELESS. Furthermore, the remaining secondary stats all benefit from one another in ways that are very complicated to model... but suffice it to say that haste, crit and mastery are all roughly equivalent.

    Therefore, the answer to the question of how much crit you need will depend on how well geared you are, because the crit becomes less valuable if you have less mastery and less haste. It's the proportions on that synergy that are tricky... but you can see this easily because more crit gives you more critical heals... which gives you more aegis... and with more mastery, your aegis will be bigger. Same with haste... more haste = more casts = more crits = more aegis... and so forth.

    So it's pretty hard to answer this question without knowing what kind of gear you have, but as a baseline, I run with 19% crit as a 384 ilvl disc priest, and that feels pretty good to me. The parses showed me that my aegis healing went up a lot when I reforged my spirit into crit (to hit 19%) instead of stacking up way more haste and mastery, and resulted in more healing overall.

    That's my 2 cents on the issue.
    Last edited by Suspicious; 2011-11-18 at 07:09 AM.

  8. #8
    i just answered similar question into the thread next to this one, you should balance mastery and crit together, get both over 17 and haste to 7 (greater heal cast time around 2.2 sec) and leave rest into spirit, if in that case your spirit go far behind 2.1-2.2k ... then again, stack your mastery and crit

  9. #9
    Honestly for discipline tank healing, the numbers are very close on all of the stats. You are using PW:S a lot on the tank, so mastery is useful. (Mastery is a terrible raid healing stat. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.) Haste is still extremely good as it effects everything. (as Suspicious put it "more haste = more casts = more crits = more aegis" To which i'd add = more PW:S due to SoS). Crit is also a really good stat for tank healing, on napkin math i'd rate it over mastery in pure throughput, but the downside is that crits are still random, and random is overall weak from a healing perspective. As a tank healer spirit does not need to be very high at all. If you have sometime to make tracking Rapture easy, and you limit your PW:S unless they are needed for keeping the tank alive or procing rapture, you'll be fine at anything above 2k spirit.

    How i would weight stats from my experiences.

    Tank healing : Haste > Crit = Mastery > Spirit.

    Raid healing : Haste > Crit > Spirit >>>>>>> Mastery.

    But, honestly do not just take anyone's word for it. Play around with your stats and find what works best for your style.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Aliessil View Post
    Ummm ... doesn't spirit convert to hit for shadow-spec only? Otherwise there'd be no need for the glyph ...
    You can still access Twisted faith and invest the remaining 2 talent points after investing 5 points on the 1st tier of Shadow Tree spending points on either Darkness, Improved SWP or Veiled Shadows.

    This is a viable method if you don't want to make one Major Glyph slot and instead of Using Divine Accuracy. There's no more need to Reforge your Spirit from most of your gear if as you have acquired the gears with balanced stats according to your secondary stat priority.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by azim View Post
    i just answered similar question into the thread next to this one, you should balance mastery and crit together, get both over 17 and haste to 7 (greater heal cast time around 2.2 sec) and leave rest into spirit, if in that case your spirit go far behind 2.1-2.2k ... then again, stack your mastery and crit
    yea this, i have been using those value's since t11 raids.
    Mastery around 16 for me crit around 17.5% and keep my spirit around 2200, i either reforge out of spirit or haste (depending on my offspec (shadow)). 2200 spirit without a resto shaman works good enough for me.

    Sig made by Resentful

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    This is a viable method if you don't want to make one Major Glyph slot and instead of Using Divine Accuracy.
    For what glyph? Holy Nova? Mass Dispel? Really, I've never heard of any (competant) AA priest speccing into Twisted Faith when you can just use a single Major Glyph instead.
    Quote Originally Posted by Precursor View Post
    "Fall of therzane....." ....um what? if that woman fell , god help us it will be the second cataclysm
    Words that lots of people don't seem to know the definition of:
    "Troll", "Rehash", "Casual", "Dead", "Dying", "Exploit".

  13. #13
    I know, but it is an option. Personally I would invest the remaining talent points in Holy Tree and maxing my Surge of Light Talent.

    You could have Holy Fire, Dispel Magic, and PoM Major Glyphs..

  14. #14
    First off in terms of healers I have the same group setup of my self Disc priest tank healing and either a Druid or Shammy on raid.

    20% unbuffed from gear is a good place to sit if you have the raid buffs with plus crit, I have tried crit ratings past 20% up to 27% from gear ( 45% buffed with RH+WS and 65% with Inner Focus ) and although you do crit more 50% to 60% on logs the loss of other stats is felt if they are much lower ( lower ilvi gear ). Also below 20% or when I don't have the raid buffs I find I don't crit as often and you feel it takes longer/more casts to heal people up.
    I know many people still believe crit is RNG and it is but as a priest I have come to rely solely on crits to make my spec, build, and play style work.

    In terms of balance of stats, as you start getting better gear I would suggest aiming for what you can reach without gimping your self in other stats, so if say you had below 15% in the 3 main stats ( haste, crit, mastery ) I would recommend getting haste to about 12% raid buffed purely for Gheal cast speed then start aiming for around 18% crit unbuffed and you should have around 14-15% mastery left over, I found that below 18% even with raid buffs again crits became unreliable. After you have those two at the minimum bar just even out all new stats to steadily improve them.

    At the moment I have these ratings on gear unbuffed no procs or trinkets:

    Spell Power: 9763
    Intellect: 7306

    Spirit: 1145 -> for spirit aim to have just below what you think you need.
    Haste: 11.5% -> raid buffed 16%.
    Crit: 20% -> +10% renewed hope +8% raid buff = 38% ish with an average of 35% to 45% in logs.
    Mastery: 20% -> 34k shields, though that is irreverent since spellpower adds to shields also.

    To have these stats or anything close to them you need to be willing to rely less on spirit for regen which gets easier as your item level grows, I would say 2000 spirit for pre firelands gear with a minimum for most at around 1600. The thing about spirit is it's a lazy mans stat, the more you have the less you need to think about your tool box.

    Disc priests have enough tools to regen mana and keep it stable, how often do you see a Disc priest without mana and even less likely is one with no mana and no cooldowns left.


    Quote Originally Posted by Suspicious View Post
    Second, the spirit>mastery>haste>crit idea is FALSE. This is usually pushed by people who gear/reforge themselves based on crappy simulators like Mr. Robot. The fact of the matter is that as disc, your primary form of regeneration will come from abilities that restore mana based on how big your mana pool is.

    snip
    +1

    Can I get your armory link Suspicious? its rare to see another priest with the same idea of stats and item level.
    Last edited by CoolNitro; 2011-11-18 at 05:47 PM.

  15. #15
    would be easier if you gave armory link!

    1. at the moment, for discipline priest spirit scales with int in the way that the more int you have the less spirit you need. while 2k spirit is perfectly fine to heal with in some decent gear, in lower level gear (less int) one might want more spirit

    2. do you use atonement spec or sos spec (i strongly recommend sos spec for tank healing if you are beginner ate healing as discipline priest in raids)?

    3. there is no number for crit, some people like to have more of it, some people like to reforge out of it in favor of other stats.
    there are many theories for the stats priority. for atonement spec and raid healing you may want to focus on haste, while on tank healing you may want to stack some mastery and crit. balancing all stats can work fine as well, all depends on assignments and your playstyle

    4. please ignore above posts about hit being any important, if you decide on atonement spec just use the glyph of accuracy

    i again suggest that we should be able to vote on posts so those misleading ones would be grayed out >.<
    Last edited by babylon; 2011-11-18 at 05:59 PM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Suspicious View Post
    First of all, the talent that converts spirit to hit rating is in the second tier of the shadow tree; and you should never EVER go that deep into the shadow tree as disc. There is a major glyph that will hit-cap you for atonement purposes.

    Second, the spirit>mastery>haste>crit idea is FALSE. This is usually pushed by people who gear/reforge themselves based on crappy simulators like Mr. Robot. The fact of the matter is that as disc, your primary form of regeneration will come from abilities that restore mana based on how big your mana pool is. Therefore, the better geared you become, the less spirit you will need, usually. Therefore, there is a limit on how much spirit you need, and this is roughly based on what your ilvl is (since every piece of gear of the same ilvl has the same intellect for that slot, you can think of it that way). Without knowing how well you are geared, it is tough to tell how much spirit you will need, but 2200 will be the absolute MAXIMUM you need if you are in Firelands gear. A lot of people, as they get more heroic FL gear tend to move towards 1800 spirit. After that point, spirit becomes USELESS. Furthermore, the remaining secondary stats all benefit from one another in ways that are very complicated to model... but suffice it to say that haste, crit and mastery are all roughly equivalent.

    Therefore, the answer to the question of how much crit you need will depend on how well geared you are, because the crit becomes less valuable if you have less mastery and less haste. It's the proportions on that synergy that are tricky... but you can see this easily because more crit gives you more critical heals... which gives you more aegis... and with more mastery, your aegis will be bigger. Same with haste... more haste = more casts = more crits = more aegis... and so forth.

    So it's pretty hard to answer this question without knowing what kind of gear you have, but as a baseline, I run with 19% crit as a 384 ilvl disc priest, and that feels pretty good to me. The parses showed me that my aegis healing went up a lot when I reforged my spirit into crit (to hit 19%) instead of stacking up way more haste and mastery, and resulted in more healing overall.

    That's my 2 cents on the issue.
    This 383 ilevel priest agrees with you. I run with 1575 spirit and have no issues at all due to my 153k mana pool.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Elyssia View Post
    You're going to need enough spirit to be hit capped... last thing you need is to start missing on smites... ( pretty sure )
    but i haven't actually ever looked and i don't raid on my disc priest :P
    There is a glyph giving smith and holy fire 16% or 18%/something hit.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    I know, but it is an option. Personally I would invest the remaining talent points in Holy Tree and maxing my Surge of Light Talent.

    You could have Holy Fire, Dispel Magic, and PoM Major Glyphs..
    You can't get Twisted Faith and Surge of Light as Disc. There aren't enough spare points - once you have 7 in shadow for TF you only have 3 to play with and SoL is a second tier holy talent.
    I would always take the glyph, giving up a ton of heal-boosting holy talents (and inspiration) so you can get the dispel magic glyph is crazy.

  19. #19
    High Overlord Kmb2603's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    144
    thanks for all the help guys, i feel much more educated about my spec : )

    my gear is pretty much the best gear you can get before FL

    im currently sitting at ilvl 364


    thank you again : )

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •