Thread: Raids?!

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  1. #1
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    Raids?!

    I hear the raids are mostly tank and spank + some add control here and there. Makes me feel a little worried that the raids will be lacking. The other overall stuff seems equal/greater then wow in most departments with some lacking stuff as in no combatlog etc

    Comment on the raids please, some1 should have atleast done the first one, eternity vault

    peace

  2. #2
    Think only F&F have tested the OPs...but they added eva nd another OP (cant remember name) in the latest build so there should be a ton of info on them and their encounters soon

  3. #3
    I think normal modes are intended to be that way, devs said once you hit 50 you can jump in to the first operation. The other modes, Hard and Nightmare will be where the challenge is

  4. #4
    High Overlord Zachyveng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bane123 View Post
    I think normal modes are intended to be that way, devs said once you hit 50 you can jump in to the first operation. The other modes, Hard and Nightmare will be where the challenge is
    Oh so we do have confirmation that the 3rd difficulty is a "nightmare" mode? That's awesome
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  5. #5
    here for you guys:


  6. #6
    I read that as hard and nightmare being the same thing. Like hard/heroic.

    EDIT: Upon further reflection, it's possible they just share the same lockout?
    Last edited by Jaronicity; 2011-11-19 at 03:40 AM.

  7. #7
    I think considering this will be their first foray into designing raids, a little simplicity is a good way for them to start. They'll get into the swing of things rather quickly I figure.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by discopolice View Post
    I hear the raids are mostly tank and spank + some add control here and there. Makes me feel a little worried that the raids will be lacking. The other overall stuff seems equal/greater then wow in most departments with some lacking stuff as in no combatlog etc

    Comment on the raids please, some1 should have atleast done the first one, eternity vault

    peace
    All you're hearing is hearsay. Nobody's been able to test raids yet as far as I know. Besides, even if they were tank and spanks, these *are* the beginner raids after all. A lot of people are coming into SWTOR being brand new to mmos.
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  9. #9
    High Overlord Zachyveng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevanSparda View Post
    here for you guys:

    snip for space
    Awesome, thanks Revan
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarasthura View Post
    All you're hearing is hearsay. Nobody's been able to test raids yet as far as I know. Besides, even if they were tank and spanks, these *are* the beginner raids after all. A lot of people are coming into SWTOR being brand new to mmos.
    "I hear" which means i've read 2-3 posts on the offical forums from betatesters who have PLAYED them and given them reviews...SO I can pretty much guarantee that if 2-3 posters says that the first raid + most of the flashpoints is tank and spank with adds added in on some encounters or oh snap watch out for that aoe then YES that is exactly what we are gonna get. One can just hope that they add some mechanics to hc flashpoints and the raids...tank and spank is never fun and just seems like they are lazy

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by discopolice View Post
    I hear the raids are mostly tank and spank + some add control here and there. Makes me feel a little worried that the raids will be lacking. The other overall stuff seems equal/greater then wow in most departments with some lacking stuff as in no combatlog etc

    Comment on the raids please, some1 should have atleast done the first one, eternity vault

    peace
    In addition to what everyone else is saying, it's worth mentioning that WoW is approaching seven years old and they're still putting out tank-and-spank (or otherwise simplistic) raid fights.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Twotonsteak View Post
    In addition to what everyone else is saying, it's worth mentioning that WoW is approaching seven years old and they're still putting out tank-and-spank (or otherwise simplistic) raid fights.
    Most fights are, in essence, tank and spank. Sometimes they just add a stacking, a spread out, adds, move out of group mechanic, but in general most of them are except for usually the last boss or two in a raid (multiphased stuff). Like I said in another thread, says they added two operations available for play. Could be that I missed that bullet point last time or they have tweaked them or something. Who knows, takes me 5 days to download these things so it'll be awhile before I can see for myself .

  13. #13
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    They are far from tank and spank, lets look at a boss from Eternity Vault and his abilities.

    I should add that this boss is called SOA.

    Ball Lightning
    Instant
    Range: 60m
    Soa uses this ability to create Ball Lightning that follows a player and explodes if it gets close to that player.


    Have the player kite the ball until it explodes normally away from the raid. Possibly 2 balls summoned in 16-player?

    Mind Trap
    Instant
    Range: 60m
    Soa uses this ability to create a Mind Trap which seals a player in a psychic prison.


    Could be either something you DPS to break them out of or maybe just a mechanic to force players to spread out. Not enough information known.

    Final Hurl Target
    Instant
    Range: 50m
    This hidden ability allows Soa to random ground target with Final Hurl.


    Nothing known from this. Feel free to make wild assumptions.

    Force Vortex
    Instant
    Range: 70m

    Again nothing known. Speculate again.

    Channel Platforms
    Instant
    Range: 100m
    Soa uses this ability during phase three, while he is teleporting down to the next platform.


    Shows there is multiple phases to the fight. Maybe forcing the raid to jump or move between platforms.

    Channel Immune
    Instant
    Soa uses this ability during phase two, while players deal with his adds.

    Awakening From Stasis
    Instant
    Soa uses this ability during phase two, while players deal with his adds.


    You can't damage the boss and have to nuke down adds in the second phase. Nothing else known about the adds, or I haven't read it yet. Feel free to input if you know.

    Recovering
    Instant
    Soa takes damage from his own final hurl ability, despite being invulnerable.

    Again, I don't know or I can't see anything in the DB about final hurl. Any information would be appreciated.

    Flurry of Lightning
    1 seconds
    Range: 60m
    Soa's basic flurry attack is a hail of lightning strikes.


    Looks like his auto-attack.

    Force Torrent
    Instant
    Range: 70m


    Again no information in the tool-tip, feel free to give or speculate information.

    Lightning Strike
    Instant
    Range: 25m
    Soa uses this as his flurry in the final round. Originally used as a replacement for chain lightning because he wouldn't use cast times while being kited.



    So in P3 he is kited by the tanks, I wonder why he needs to be? But apart from that, this is just the 'auto attack'.

    Force Cyclone
    1.5 seconds
    Range: 50m
    Puts the player on a force cyclone taxi path which will drop the player after the path ends. WR - Need to add a mechanic that saves the player if the raid takes a certain action.


    Sounds like Valks to me. Dropping someone off the edge unless the raid DPS' them down or does something to stop it.



    So as you can see, there is definitely enough to keep raiders interested. Sounds like a fun enough fight.
    Last edited by Traces; 2011-11-20 at 04:47 AM.
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    I would like to know if people are interested in that kind of post. I can do it for all of the bosses in Eternity Vault, but only if people eithe rfind them interesting or useful.

    Also a Trooper Vanguard guide is coming up, just finishing it off.
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    Damn Traces, that's awesome. If you don't make more of those posts you can feel free to PM them to me instead lol.
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  17. #17
    I havn't done any raids but I think I speak for a large (mostly silent) crowd when I say, I'm not worried if raids are lacking. I myself play games for reasons other then meaningless "glory" and I'm sure many other people don't put too much interest into the raid grind.

    Not saying they arn't allowed in the game, but maybe if people are looking for the hardcore ultra in-depth raid bonanza in an mmo they should probably look at the tons of other mmos that are already out there that only focus on that already.

    Don't come to this story-driven mmo with high hopes of a raid out every 2-3 months like WoW then complain when the game wasn't exactly what you wanted it to be despite developers saying nothing to indicate that strong over-the-top focus on raids.

    You are setting yourself up for a let down then may complain to other people, bringing down the game because of YOUR mistake.

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    The fights are FAR from tank and spank I can assure you. What your not understanding is that just in the last couple of builds, the latest being the one that came out this week they have begun to tune up and turn on all the bosses abilities and difficulties. This latest build just opened up large scale testing on the end game content and people are just now getting a look at the newest raid. Its also worth pointing out that only two guilds on beta have even cleared the first raid and what I have read from them buggs aside the bosses seemed quite challenging, especially the last one in the eternity vault.

    The bosses are hard even on normal mode there not a push over. The last two builds saw a difficulty pass so take what you have read with a grain of salt. The bosses like all raids start slow and build up in difficultly as you progress in. The first boss in the enterity vault is supposed to be doable with average gear and be the entry lvl boss but even that one saw a pass over and fine tuning recently. The bosses didnt even recieve full loot tables till this last build.

    The point here is.. dont sweat it everything I have seen and read points to a rich end game as far as quality goes with varied and interesting mechanics. Quantity is the only variable. We know what it starts with and thats a good start and I am sure with all they have riding on this game they will deliver in the patch / xpac department.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Argroth View Post

    Don't come to this story-driven mmo with high hopes of a raid out every 2-3 months like WoW then complain when the game wasn't exactly what you wanted it to be despite developers saying nothing to indicate that strong over-the-top focus on raids.

    You are setting yourself up for a let down then may complain to other people, bringing down the game because of YOUR mistake.
    SWTOR's in for a short ride if this "story-driven" mmo is nothing more than a 15$ sub for periodic story DLC. I expect the story, raiding, and pvp to be high quality and implemented at a brisk pace(define brisk as you wish). And all indications from the developers say that they do intend to deliver on those aspects so using story as a pass for crap performance in other areas is unnecessary. Story is simply the new thing they're trying to bring back, not the one trick pony your post kinda made it out to be. Raids are never about glory for most of us, it's about having challenging large scale group content which is something that should be a staple of any game that calls itself a MMORPG.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Argroth View Post
    I havn't done any raids but I think I speak for a large (mostly silent) crowd when I say, I'm not worried if raids are lacking. I myself play games for reasons other then meaningless "glory" and I'm sure many other people don't put too much interest into the raid grind.

    Not saying they arn't allowed in the game, but maybe if people are looking for the hardcore ultra in-depth raid bonanza in an mmo they should probably look at the tons of other mmos that are already out there that only focus on that already.

    Don't come to this story-driven mmo with high hopes of a raid out every 2-3 months like WoW then complain when the game wasn't exactly what you wanted it to be despite developers saying nothing to indicate that strong over-the-top focus on raids.

    You are setting yourself up for a let down then may complain to other people, bringing down the game because of YOUR mistake.
    Personally competitive raiding is what I enjoy the most and I feel that a lot of people enjoy it even if they aren't part of the top 50 guilds in the world (maybe you raid in a guild that is 4th best on the realm and there is another that is roughly the same, it is nice to progress past them?). I'm going to try and use an analogy here and hopefully I don't sound like a total window licker.

    Football, Boxing or any other major sport has two teams/individuals competing and people who don't even watch or follow it will still normally pick a side, that is just human nature. A great example happened the other week when the guys and a couple of girls were over watching the UFC . Now even thought they don't follow or watch MMA they still choose and cheered for a fighter because they liked the thought of supporting someone.

    Raiding is similar to that. The Paragon vs Ensida race was great to follow during WoTLK and even the current Paragon vs Method that is happening during 4.3 will be good. I already know people who want Method to do so just because they are the underdog and they are PVP or non-hardcore PVE players.

    Everyone loves a bit of competition and it creates a healthy environment on a server when you have people competing against each other.

    SWTOR could benefit greatly from keeping raiding competitive. People enjoy the thrill of competition even if they aren't directly part of it.
    Last edited by Traces; 2011-11-20 at 04:15 AM.
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