1. #1
    High Overlord Canaslan's Avatar
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    Majordomo 25H Disc Priests

    Hey guys,

    So yesterday we killed domo H for the first time after about 25-30 tries. I know every guild should use his own tactics on approaching bosskills, but I really can't figure this one out.

    The mechanic is Flame Scythe. It does 2.700.000 Fire Damage to targets in front of the boss (split evenly among those who are in front of the boss), as you all perhaps already know. I want to know how you can reduce this damage so much that only the tank takes this attack without having someone else step in front of the boss to share the damage.

    So you might have already guessed, I am the shadowpriest that has to step in front of the boss every 1st, 3rd and 5th to share the Flame Scythe with the tank (dispersion). He takes the 2nd and 4th alone with Ardent Defender. By the way, I'm not sure how many times I did it, I recall three. I think he hits enrage a minute after the fifth scythe.

    Anyway, on our first try I explained that it should be doable with fully stacked tank (with damage reduction buffs). The tank should pop all his cooldowns except AD (saves this to take the next alone) and the others should put their damage reduction buffs up on the tank as well. Now, I know those of the priest, so I told our priest to pop everything you have (barrier wasn't popped just to clarify, so it was PS) and to PW:S the tank right around 90 energy. And I know the tank might get lucky with some DA, unless it soaks the melee damage before the Scythe). The tank popped his cooldowns. We were about to test the damage if the tank would make it like this, but a warrior stepped in front of the boss without being asked to do it and used Shield Wall and the tank dropped to 20% HP. So we never actually tested it, but you could conclude from this that the tank wouldn't have made it without the warrior in front of the boss.

    Several guides explain that a fully damage reduction buff stacked-tank should be able to take a hit, or you could opt to not take the hit but we want to in order to have some more space to run to (Leaping Flames are all around the area, some of should have disappeared after the Scythe). So, that puzzles me, why does it work in their guide? Why can't we do it?

    What are we doing wrong? How many damage reduction abilities does the tank need to have? Is the disc's and the tank's abilities enough, or do other healing classes have to use their damage reduction cds as well on the tank if they have one (I'm not familiar with other healing classes)?

    I'm sorry I don't have any log. It's not uploaded by one our guildies who does it, but I'll ask her anyways.

    Any input is welcome!

    ~Can

    Edit 2: Ah yes, our compisition exists of 1 tank, 6 healers, 18 dps (2 were offspec, tank and healer). We just made enrage timer, about 2-3 seconds off.
    Last edited by Canaslan; 2011-11-19 at 09:09 AM. Reason: Spelling

  2. #2
    Herald of the Titans Yilar's Avatar
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    You're making it harder for yourself by taking swings. Just let the boss get 70 energy and spread out, after 7 leaps you stack quickly and wait for 70 energy and repeat from the top.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Yilar View Post
    You're making it harder for yourself by taking swings. Just let the boss get 70 energy and spread out, after 7 leaps you stack quickly and wait for 70 energy and repeat from the top.
    Yep. This right here. Only time I ever take the swipes is when its on normal. Its just not worth it on heroic, especially since you want people keeping that buff for as long as possible. Also, 6 healers is a bit too much. Never take a swipe, run 4 healers for your first kill (3 after that).
    "It is only the great men who are truly obscene, for if they never dared to be obscene, they never could have dared to be great."

  4. #4
    High Overlord Canaslan's Avatar
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    Thank you for input! I will definitely bring it up with the RL next time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heca View Post
    Yep. This right here. Only time I ever take the swipes is when its on normal. Its just not worth it on heroic, especially since you want people keeping that buff for as long as possible. Also, 6 healers is a bit too much. Never take a swipe, run 4 healers for your first kill (3 after that).
    They are keeping their buffs, they are losing it only to Leaping Flames, Searing Seeds and Burning Orbs. I'm the one who steps in front to split the damage (with dispersion up of course) and lose the buff to Flame Scythe as well. I agree six healers are too much and I'll bring that up as well.

    What I wanted to know is how does the damage reduction work?

    Is the max amount of damage that can be reduced 90%? If so, then you also have a fire aura which gives a 24,92% reduction, let's say 25%. Flame Scythe is Fire Damage.

    Do you just subtract the numbers? > 2.700.000 - 90% - 25% = 202.500 Fire Damage
    Then you would have absorbs like DA and PW:S.

    So that's what I would like to know if there is anything like that.

  5. #5
    High Overlord Canaslan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heca View Post
    Yep. This right here. Only time I ever take the swipes is when its on normal. Its just not worth it on heroic, especially since you want people keeping that buff for as long as possible. Also, 6 healers is a bit too much. Never take a swipe, run 4 healers for your first kill (3 after that).
    I'm the only one who takes the swipes (along with the tank). So everyone is keeping their buff and only lose it to unavoidable damage, where I am also losing it to the three Scythes. And I know 6 is too much, but I guess we need more dps because 1 healer already swtiched to dps. :P

    What I would like to know is how low of a damage can the Flame Scythe be reduced to?

    90% damage reduction via damage reduction buffs? it's Fire damage and we have a Fire Aura with 25% reduction. So 2.700.000 minus 90% minus 25% equals 202.5k? Is that the lowest it can be reduced to? Then how many buffs do you need for that, because last time we had the paladin tank use Divine Shield and the Disc priest use PS, which equals to 90% right? or do they not add up? because the tank would've died if the other warrior dps didn't share the Flame Scythe damage with the tank.

    And what about Divine Aegis and PW:S?
    Last edited by Canaslan; 2011-11-20 at 01:21 PM. Reason: Spelling

  6. #6
    The Lightbringer
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    Run 4 healers, maybe even 3, and you wont ever have enrage issues. Even if some dps keeps failing with the leaps and seeds.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Canaslan View Post
    I'm the only one who takes the swipes (along with the tank). So everyone is keeping their buff and only lose it to unavoidable damage, where I am also losing it to the three Scythes. And I know 6 is too much, but I guess we need more dps because 1 healer already swtiched to dps. :P

    What I would like to know is how low of a damage can the Flame Scythe be reduced to?

    90% damage reduction via damage reduction buffs? it's Fire damage and we have a Fire Aura with 25% reduction. So 2.700.000 minus 90% minus 25% equals 202.5k? Is that the lowest it can be reduced to? Then how many buffs do you need for that, because last time we had the paladin tank use Divine Shield and the Disc priest use PS, which equals to 90% right? or do they not add up? because the tank would've died if the other warrior dps didn't share the Flame Scythe damage with the tank.

    And what about Divine Aegis and PW:S?
    Not a bad idea on the tactic, if you can survive. The issue is though are the longer scorpion phases helping you over all by making him switch less vs the loss of dps. Now that I think about it, it should take longer to reach the egg phase which allows the dps more time before most likely lose their buff.

    I'm not too sure about the heavy math part I would have to be in game and see you getting hit before I could tell you if it was healable. As for PW:S and DA you can expect to have at least a 35k shield minimum and if your Disc priest gets enough time to pre stack DA then add 30k to 60k on top ( 2x greater heal casts each, 8 seconds to cap if all crits ).

    Does the 100% healing buff also increase shield sizes? if it does double my numbers.
    Last edited by CoolNitro; 2011-11-20 at 01:47 PM.

  8. #8
    as many others have said before all stack to start wait for scorp to get to 80 energy spread out before he can do the first swipe then 7-9 leaps depending on how good you are making sure all you ranged and healers are moving to avoid leaps at 80 energy then stack up take the boss to 80 energy then run out before he can swipe rinse and repeat you will get 1 flame sack phase and 2 seed phases gg we 2 heal it on H 25 pretty easy tank is the only person taking any damage there is some spot healing for the seeds and some spot healing for the flame sacks almost easier to H shann

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by moesouls View Post
    as many others have said before all stack to start wait for scorp to get to 80 energy spread out before he can do the first swipe then 7-9 leaps depending on how good you are making sure all you ranged and healers are moving to avoid leaps at 80 energy then stack up take the boss to 80 energy then run out before he can swipe rinse and repeat you will get 1 flame sack phase and 2 seed phases gg we 2 heal it on H 25 pretty easy tank is the only person taking any damage there is some spot healing for the seeds and some spot healing for the flame sacks almost easier to H shann
    I do 10s mostly but this tactic is universal, this is another one of those fights that can be done with very few healers even solo healed if range wasn't an issue during the flame egg things.

  10. #10
    High Overlord Canaslan's Avatar
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    Ok thanks for the input all. I will bring this up with my raidleader.

    The learn2raid guide for this fight explained that a fully damage-reduction-buff stacked tank would be able to survive the hit (all by himself). This we tried, but it didn't work so that had me pondering.

    @Coolnitro: the only issues that could happen is the tank not getting PS from the priest or using his own cd's, or your shadowpriest forgetting to dispers :P. I didn't die once, I drop to 40% ish when I receive a hit (this is me+tank in front).
    We used to try it with 3 people in front: 2 Shadowpriests and the tank, which dropped us priests to 80-90%, but that shadowpriest got his Legendary so we had to make use of him :P.

    It is viable as the whole raid is keeping their 100% buff a couple of seconds more by sacrificing mine. Our dps isn't that high and execution was a bit off, but we managed to kill him right aroun enrage time. I recall our raidwide dps being 700k.

  11. #11
    IDK, but if you want to try that again, an Aura Mastery will defo come in handy. Also, if he's a pala, tell him to glyph divine protection to get -40% magical damage. That should help a lot.

  12. #12
    Just out of curiosity, does the fight play out different for 25man? In 10m We soak up to 6-10 cleaves (cooldowns permitting) in scorpion phase, and only start playing it a bit safer later on. It seems very out of tune if you can't do that in 25man, do you fail the berserk timer if your raid soaks cleaves in 25 or what?

  13. #13
    A pally tank can solo soak 1 cleave every go, if you have a Holy Priest in raid as well.

    First Scorp Phase - Ardent Defender (no HP cap unlike GS)
    Second Scorp Phase - Guardian Spirit, and other Pally CDs (ie. Divine protection, WoG bubble, trinkets) and if you need: Pain Supp or Barrier

    Rinse Repeat. This keeps more people with full concentration as you arent using Dispersioned Spriests to soak.

  14. #14
    when i did this with my guild, upon pulling, the tank soaked 1 swipe by himself, we all spread, take 7 jumps, hug back up, wait for domo to turn into a scorpion, spread straight away (without taking any swipes), take 7 jumps, hug back up, let tank soak 1 swipe, spread out, sort orbs, take 7 jumps, hug, spread, hero, kill

  15. #15
    you guys that are soaking one swipe are making this was harder than it needs to be and making you healers heal through damage that should never be taken in the first place

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by moesouls View Post
    you guys that are soaking one swipe are making this was harder than it needs to be and making you healers heal through damage that should never be taken in the first place
    Possibly, but it allows for additional seconds for the DPS to just turret dps and not move for orbs, leaps, etc. Its a option for the strat, and works for many. As does the Swipe dodging is an option as well.

  17. #17
    5-6 healers is fine for this fight (post-nerf, I don't think we ever even bothered with less than 5 healers after that).

    I'm not sure why you're trying to take any scythes (other than the ones with AD). All it gains you is about 3s worth of dps on the boss, as whever he hits less than... 6? people with the scythe he instantly gets around 60 energy.

    Like the others above me said: Drop the scythe tanking tactic imho. Assuming your dps isn't totally bad, you should be killing the boss around the time you get the 2nd wave of orbs. If the orbs are a problem, have your druids tranq, priests hymn, etc. If you can't kill him on the cat phase AFTER the orbs, you have nowhere near the dps required for this fight.

  18. #18
    Nobody mentioned it here but you don't need to actually have more than a handful of people soaking the orbs if you do it right... Mages with iceblock, paladins with bubble and hunters with deterrance can soak all orbs if they are placed correctly. You can drag the boss to the stairs before the orb spawn so that the orbs spawn in a more compact area(make sure a healer follows the tank and that the tank has a CD ready in case the stairs create los issues). The first soaker then blinks/runs in and uses his CD right away. A few seconds before the CD runs out he disengages/blinks/runs out and the next soaker steps in with his CD that way only about 3-4 of your dps need to lose their concentration(mages and paladins can use their CDs after 1-2 ticks from the orbs, hunters need to run in with their CD active otherwise they continue taking damage). You also do not need more than 3-4 healers for this fight.
    Even if you get a second wave of orbs you should have enough ppl with ready CDs to soak them.

  19. #19
    As its been posted, spread at 80 energy, collapse at 7 jumps. You want to keep the buff on everyone, resetting it will drop your DPS substantially for no real benefit.

    And yeah on 25 man we have like 4-5 people soaking all the orbs, just get the tank to position him around the corner out of LOS of your entire raid, retract any totems etc then spread out (without anyone but the tank being in his LOS. We usually have the tank move him to the right pillar and then everyone spreads left) and you should have all the orbs spawn pretty much on the tank. Then you can use a few classes like Mages, Paladins and Hunters to soak the orbs until they despawn, setup a rotation for each to take over with there damage reduction ability. Use 3-4 healers, you won't need anything more than that for this tactic since theres no scythes.

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