Egypt new problems

[opath]

@Bakis

over the past couple of years in Egypt, there has been about 5-6 *announced* attacks on churches, between getting bombed, burned, and armed assaulted, if christians and muslims *hated* each others guts it would have turned into a bloody civil war ages ago.

people wake up every morning, go to school / work / college. finish off their day, then head off to the protests, all together, with absolutely no distinction of who is christian and who is muslim. we all know that every single religious attack that happens is fabricated AND blown out of proportion to instigate a civil war. its not gonna happen tho luckily.

and if u didnt guess yet, im a christian Egyptian.

[Davisdoesdallas]

Im certainly not an asshole and if it is like you are saying that I missunderstood that cos of poor english I would like you to explain this part then.

"There is NO PROBLEM between the actual living people here and christians and muslims are best friends since forever, problem is fabricated and always melt and ends in real situations"

Him denying facts can be covered up with poor english eh?

Right back at you Outcry

What he is saying is that the problem is made up by the security forces. Those plain clothes police you hear about if you actually pay attention to current events in the region, they look an awful lot like muslims to the cameras that might capture an attack on coptics.


I posted that video of the US made product to facebook and I'm sure it'll spread atleast through my sphere of friends. Be careful OP and maybe you should look into a good IP spoofing site to post from now on. Secret police are bitches that like to spy on people they're scared of.

[ggabboud]

Ok just to clear things up before I attack the OP, I am a coptic christian Egyptian who has just as much knowledge as the OP but more educated. The coptics when in Egypt during Mubarak's regime had nothing to fear. Even though he stole from the government, he kept the christians safe due to America's backing. He had little to no choice in the matter because if not, then the United States would not send its military aid.

Being a christian in Egypt means you are oppressed no matter what. I went to a private American school in Egypt, with imported teachers from North America and Europe. There is a required Arabic course which we must take and I completely agree with this. The problem is, this "Arabic" course is more of a religion course. The teachers sit there and preach about Islam, and I was one of three Christians in my whole grade. There really was nothing we could do, but sit there since a young age and listen to what they had to say. Luckily my parents always sent me to church and Sunday school so I would not be forced to believe everything they said. Childrens' minds are influenced easily, imagine thinking that Christians and Jews were the bad guys thanks to someone with a position of power.

Also church life in Egypt is common practice for Christians. By church life I mean attending mass, then mass let out people stay at church. It had a couple of restaurants, soccer, basketball, and tennis fields all within the confides of the church property. Christians isolate themselves from the government due to the oppressive ways of a religiously run country. The church was only allowed to build in this certain area, and this area mind you had 4 mosques within a 3 mile radius, one of which was right next door. Now in Egypt, when the Muslims pray, it is 5 times a day, during those 5 times the Muslim Sheik gets on a microphone and preaches, this microphone is connected to very large speakers that carry a few blocks over. So even if you are not attending the sermon you are forced to listen. Also some hoodlums from the mosque once came outside our walls and threw rocks over the fence, when the attending christian guard came outside to confront them, they pelted him with rocks. When a police report was filed, we were told that they were just children and not to take it too seriously, and that there is not much they can do. I was young at the time so i was not involved in the retaliation by the teenagers. They opted to take matters into their own hands, and returned the favor. When a police report was filed against them, no less than a dozen officers came to the church looking for them, and beating and abusing those who had no knowledge of who had done the attacks. There was one person who had been spotted and he got arrested.

Which leads to the court system in Egypt. The kid from the rock incident was jailed, and a case was filed against him. His parents appointed lawyers to defend the child, since in Egypt you are guilty until proven innocent in most cases. It took 2 weeks and plenty of bribes before they found out where he was jailed, and to move the case up in order so it can be heard. (now i will not sit here and tell you that this is because he is christian, this is just a fault of the judicial system in Egypt). As some of you might have guessed, the child was prosecuted and his parents were ordered to pay a ridiculous fine to repair the mosque, and he was sentenced to community service.

IF YOU CHOSE NOT TO READ ANYTHING I POSTED, PLEASE AT LEAST READ THE PARAGRAPH FOLLOWING THIS HUGE UNNECESSARILY LARGE TEXT

Now there are many other cases like the previous one that happened to my family and many family friends, but I will approach the subject of the current Coptic march. Many do not know the reason behind the marches, and probably will not hear it from the biased Egyptian newspapers. The story behind the revolt is as follows. There is a church in a rural part of Egypt that was in terrible condition. The church needed renovations badly, and wanted to get them done. They approached the town's mayor, and he approved of the renovations. When the church started moving, and hired workers and brought in materials, the townspeople revolted. They said that the church should not be allowed to renovate, that they should be happy that they are even allowed to have a church there. When the Christians of the town approached the mayor along side the angry mob. The mayor chose to side with the Muslim mob, over the Christians to whom he had already agreed said renovations. Word spread around churches about this incident, and with the military in place and no president, words of the incident fell on deaf ears, and that is what caused the Coptic march. The attackers on the march were not just police, but also common Muslim citizens. For OP to come here and claim, "Me and my friend who is Christian have been friends since childhood," does not speak for the majority of Egypt's citizens.

[Bakis]

What he is saying is that the problem is made up by the security forces. Those plain clothes police you hear about if you actually pay attention to current events in the region, they look an awful lot like muslims to the cameras that might capture an attack on coptics.


I posted that video of the US made product to facebook and I'm sure it'll spread atleast through my sphere of friends. Be careful OP and maybe you should look into a good IP spoofing site to post from now on. Secret police are bitches that like to spy on people they're scared of.

There are as of yet no proof that the attacks on the coptic christians are instigated by the sequrity forces.
The security forces (military) might have an interest in it now though, since it would make it easier for them make claims they need to keep most of their powers, much like how the US works today with controlling its population via fear.

However, if that would be the case though it would be no trouble for them to blow this at the moment minor conflict into nationwide.
Since this is not the case it is in my view, pretty safe to asume that these attacks are just made muslim civilians frustrated over the situation rather than a true religious conflict.

Nevertheless it is a fact there is a conflict (and that in almost all cases) coptic christians that has been attacked by muslims.
These issues should end and will probably do so, if Egypts becomes stable and run to that degree of democracy that its population is expecting and demanding.

As of yet, doesnt look good with the military trying to get a heavy saying in what gets decided compared to the (future)parlament not to mention them wanting to make the military budget secret without any insight from a future parlament etc.

---------- Post added 2011-11-21 at 05:34 PM ----------

@Bakis

over the past couple of years in Egypt, there has been about 5-6 *announced* attacks on churches, between getting bombed, burned, and armed assaulted, if christians and muslims *hated* each others guts it would have turned into a bloody civil war ages ago.

people wake up every morning, go to school / work / college. finish off their day, then head off to the protests, all together, with absolutely no distinction of who is christian and who is muslim. we all know that every single religious attack that happens is fabricated AND blown out of proportion to instigate a civil war. its not gonna happen tho luckily.

and if u didnt guess yet, im a christian Egyptian.

Good you pointed it out I think we been a bit unclear on the matter, there are still very few attacks indeed.
Will never lead to anything serious if it keeps happening this little. What the western world is more anxious about is how the Muslim Brotherhood will use their power after winning the first future elections.
Will all believers of differents faiths all have the same rights and protection in the constitution etc.
As long as they wont devide state and religion from one another Egypt will never be a democracy but just another totalitarian country like every other middle east country.

[Grimbold21]

Could someone direct me to a website where i can learn about the "why" of these protests?

All im getting right now is "people getting shot" "repressive regime".

[Bakis]

Could someone direct me to a website where i can learn about the "why" of these protests?

All im getting right now is "people getting shot" "repressive regime".

Just read newssites. It is more or less that the changes are being implemented slower than people expected and more importantly the military are stalling things in order to make sure they have enough (too much) power and authority before the election takes place.

[cFortyfive]

What tension ? Everyone know (with evidence) that the people who attack christians are actually secret police (yes it is proved with evidence, again to confirm)
My best friend is christian since childhood, and I'm muslim
Christians protect us while we pray and so do we, simple google will show you that, don't believe governments lies
WE - regardless of religion or believes - are getting slaughtered because we want freedom and justice, we want to earn our country back
Just check videos I linked before, the police and army don't ask what is your religion before they shot you

I don't care the slightest bit who your best buddy ever was since childhood. And spare me that fairy tail of secret police going around through the whole country burning churches. Next you will tell me that it was all a Zionist setup and there has never been before any violence against Coptic Christians in your country.

The USA continues to give the Egyptian military 1.3 billion dollars of aid every year. Countries like the UK also sell arms to Egypt, as well as other European countries. Can't remember the exact list.

Business as usual.

@Bakis
over the past couple of years in Egypt, there has been about 5-6 *announced* attacks on churches, between getting bombed, burned, and armed assaulted, if christians and muslims *hated* each others guts it would have turned into a bloody civil war ages ago.
people wake up every morning, go to school / work / college. finish off their day, then head off to the protests, all together, with absolutely no distinction of who is christian and who is muslim. we all know that every single religious attack that happens is fabricated AND blown out of proportion to instigate a civil war. its not gonna happen tho luckily.

I hardly think that you'd go into a civil war with like what 10% of the people against 90% of the overall population especially when you know any government authority works against you. False flag operations are nothing new but I see little to no hard evidence that every attack since forever was always performed by a part of the government in case sometime in the future a revolution would hit the nation and let the military regime have an easier time keeping control. That just sounds a little odd to me. Especially when considering that Christians in Africa generally don't have a really good time so to speak.
I don't say that every Muslim is prepared to use violence against Christians - but often actions aren't measured by the majority but by the minority who commit those acts.

[sam86]

Ok here is the exact details with the proof
There was a known explosion Jan 11 last year where a church in Alex was blown up by someone who was known as a muslim terrorist, investigation showed that officers who sit on churchs guarding it, got a call and left it on purpose exactly before attack ~1hour, that day was a holiday for christians, so the officer who was tasked to guard it was very surprised to get call to leave at that sensitive day and recorded that order because he had doubts
After Jan25 events when they decided to sacrifice with Habib El Adly (minister of the police system), that recorded call made it to public and he was accused directly, with papers it was proven that this "terrorist" was trained by the secret police who played with him all along, they told him that "gihad" is to kill innocent people because they don't share same opinion with you, fed him lies, gave him bombs THEY smuggled it to Egypt, and it was remote control operation actually but they blown him with the explosives

Until today the current tyrant system, SCAF, they not only didn't judge Habib El Adly for anything, they actually cured his eye because he was a little sick in it, I got shot, hand burned and I don't expect them to care for me, one of my friends got shot in chest and can't leave bed since 8months and they didn't care for him, they care for people Mubarak and Adly

Sir ggabboud who is sorry - spreading lies -, I don't believe you that people passed by church and thrown stones at it because all the time - excpet during Jan 25 events where me and my friends shielded them with out bodies - they have guards 24/7, you say church guards came out, policemen are always outside guarding it, no one would dare to throw stones at church unless it was planned with the police
Opath can confirm that in front of every church there is always police, also I have no idea what they do now these days

[ggabboud]

Sir ggabboud who is sorry - spreading lies -, I don't believe you that people passed by church and thrown stones at it because all the time - excpet during Jan 25 events where me and my friends shielded them with out bodies - they have guards 24/7, you say church guards came out, policemen are always outside guarding it, no one would dare to throw stones at church unless it was planned with the police
Opath can confirm that in front of every church there is always police, also I have no idea what they do now these days

The attacks on my church were not something recent, and was years before the revolution. In fact, this happened around 1998. To this day my church has never had 1 guard stand outside it, so I am not sure where you get this idea. I am also not spreading lies you ignorant fuck. Your stubbornness amazes me, that only you can be right and no one else has experienced anything. You chose this one aspect of my response to respond to, basing it on recent situations that occurred to you, and not wanting to believe or hear anything else.

[SanshaT]

The problem in these countries is that there is no over laying Consitution which they must abide by. Its one dictator out, another dictator in and this just continues in an endless cycle.

The only real solution would be to allow foreign powers to set up constitutional governments in these countries to keep them under control. However when we try to do this they get upset and over throw the stable governments western and european powers set up for them.

In the end you can't really do much except sit and watch.

[ggabboud]

The problem in these countries is that there is no over laying Consitution which they must abide by. Its one dictator out, another dictator in and this just continues in an endless cycle.

The only real solution would be to allow foreign powers to set up constitutional governments in these countries to keep them under control. However when we try to do this they get upset and over throw the stable governments western and european powers set up for them.

In the end you can't really do much except sit and watch.

Haha i would rather blunt dictatorship, than a false sense of democracy. Go read up on Bush, and his friends during the Iraq war. Plus how stable is a government that is trillions of dollars in debt to China which it repeats the cycle by importing more goods from them? And European economy is crap (barring Germany). Let us not forget that these countries only interfere when it is beneficial to them. I am yet to see weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, and do not get me started on the Israel, Palestine war. I believe the Israeli prime minister told Obama to shut the fuck up, but in a nicer way earlier this year.

So please take your sense of entitlement and superiority complex and get out of here.

[Deleted]

What is here is government slaughtering anyone, and trying (and failing) to divide and conquer us, but since they got media they keep making people cry for US for help of fake things that doesn't exist, with help of government people who are known supporters of their methods

Divide and conquer, your spot on here OP.

Be safe!

[Deleted]

how can rubber bullets be forbidden? One would think that they are preferred to the sharp ammunition that was used in Libya

Rubber bullets can be just as deadly as real bullets under certain circumstances, especially if things are chaotic and depending upon the part of the body struck.

[SanshaT]

Haha i would rather blunt dictatorship, than a false sense of democracy. Go read up on Bush, and his friends during the Iraq war. Plus how stable is a government that is trillions of dollars in debt to China which it repeats the cycle by importing more goods from them? And European economy is crap (barring Germany). Let us not forget that these countries only interfere when it is beneficial to them. I am yet to see weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, and do not get me started on the Israel, Palestine war. I believe the Israeli prime minister told Obama to shut the fuck up, but in a nicer way earlier this year.

So please take your sense of entitlement and superiority complex and get out of here.

Our debt really isn't that important. We could just default on it if we wanted to and no one could really do anything about it. In reality China is the one being taken advantage of.

I am not entitled nor do I have a superiority complex. I just believe that we need new solutions since the old ones no longer seem to be working.

[Cocytan]

http://www.motortrend.com/gas_prices...ean/new_egypt/


Should solve all your concerns :/

---------- Post added 2011-11-22 at 09:30 AM ----------

http://www.motortrend.com/gas_prices...ean/new_egypt/


Should solve all your concerns :/

OT: I <3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3 Egyptian Women

[sam86]

They are using now freaking chemical war against us, gas with no color that destroy and kill us (literally), I'm still alive mostly because I never smoked before
I don't care a christian, muslim or even a bozi control the country now, we are getting terminated like ants now
Yesterday night a helicopter dropped gas on our heads, they are attacking now field hospitals, twice they claimed they won't attack only to attack worse, saturday they used tear gas, sunday they used a different gas, today they are using a new different gas with different effects
I hate people like ggabboud, police is killing us and he is crying for something else, for god sake I'm bleeding and have now internal burning and ache and you are still talking about christians vs muslims, the police are very fair with that situation now, they kill them both and drag their corpses like trash, and attack field hospitals
I didn't see ANYONE asking someone who got hit what is his religion before he carried him away to what should be safety - of course police now attack doctors first.
What about the fact that anyone who has beard in Egypt (here is sort-of symbol of dedicated muslims) can't get a job and is searched in every inch in any touristic place? What about we must give away our IDs to goverment if we wanted to stay in the mosque during the month Ramadan? What about the fact of how many muslims were taken by national security to never see light again?

Where are you then? Are you crying that muslims hate you while christians and muslims dying in streets in hundreds? So you hate me ok, go protect your religion brother? They die too, don't trust me, go look yourself, the policeman who shot me in hand and leg didn't try to ask my religion first (btw I have beard so I look "muslim" in traditions here)

I'm in home today can't move my back and terrible sad to leave the battlefield (funny word, but true) because I lost my agility and can't hit and run against those demons, tomorrow I hope I be alright and avenge my brothers who died in battle, whatever their religion was, I'm sure they were humans like me

EDIT : they are using new gas bombs now, the Phosphorus bombs, yes same type of bombs that are forbidden by all laws, that cause horrible pain and mutate death and least case: cancer
Go tell them you are Muslim, lets see if the bomb won't hit you

[Grimbold21]

There really was nothing we could do, but sit there since a young age and listen to what they had to say. Luckily my parents always sent me to church and Sunday school so I would not be forced to believe everything they said. Childrens' minds are influenced easily,

I'm confused...

[SanshaT]

They are using now freaking chemical war against us, gas with no color that destroy and kill us (literally), I'm still alive mostly because I never smoked before
I don't care a christian, muslim or even a bozi control the country now, we are getting terminated like ants now
Yesterday night a helicopter dropped gas on our heads, they are attacking now field hospitals, twice they claimed they won't attack only to attack worse, saturday they used tear gas, sunday they used a different gas, today they are using a new different gas with different effects
I hate people like ggabboud, police is killing us and he is crying for something else, for god sake I'm bleeding and have now internal burning and ache and you are still talking about christians vs muslims, the police are very fair with that situation now, they kill them both and drag their corpses like trash, and attack field hospitals
I didn't see ANYONE asking someone who got hit what is his religion before he carried him away to what should be safety - of course police now attack doctors first.
What about the fact that anyone who has beard in Egypt (here is sort-of symbol of dedicated muslims) can't get a job and is searched in every inch in any touristic place? What about we must give away our IDs to goverment if we wanted to stay in the mosque during the month Ramadan? What about the fact of how many muslims were taken by national security to never see light again?

Where are you then? Are you crying that muslims hate you while christians and muslims dying in streets in hundreds? So you hate me ok, go protect your religion brother? They die too, don't trust me, go look yourself, the policeman who shot me in hand and leg didn't try to ask my religion first (btw I have beard so I look "muslim" in traditions here)

I'm in home today can't move my back and terrible sad to leave the battlefield (funny word, but true) because I lost my agility and can't hit and run against those demons, tomorrow I hope I be alright and avenge my brothers who died in battle, whatever their religion was, I'm sure they were humans like me

EDIT : they are using new gas bombs now, the Phosphorus bombs, yes same type of bombs that are forbidden by all laws, that cause horrible pain and mutate death and least case: cancer
Go tell them you are Muslim, lets see if the bomb won't hit you

The best thing you could do would be to photograph and document these events and then upload them for the world to see. This will speed up NATO intervention.

[Olo]

The best thing you could do would be to photograph and document these events and then upload them for the world to see. This will speed up NATO intervention.

NATO isn’t gonna touch Egypt with a 10 foot pole. The UN is the better option.

[Spokenlastchance]

The best thing you could do would be to photograph and document these events and then upload them for the world to see. This will speed up NATO intervention.

Lets all be adults about this an accept that the US government is the one selling them their products. Now for the NATO fact is we live in a false system the UN doesn't work because no one really cares more then their own personal gain. I think with how things have been going for the past almost 100 years with the formation of the Untied Nations there would be some reformation, but it's clear people are own concerned with their own gains.