Ragnaros 10 man normal HELP

[xzbbzx]

Hi, I'm in a casual guild and we're working our way through Ragnaros 10 man normal mode.

Today I decided to start logging our attempts in WoL to be able to further compare trys and to be able to ask for some help: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/tic5tvzianlpltw1/

Does anyone have any tip on what is wrong (apart from the fact that we wipe ). What damage we're taking that is avoidable, etc.

I'd like to state that our normal setup includes a blood dk instead of the bear tank and we sometimes take a resto druid instead of one of the resto shamans or the holy paladin.

If you're going to post just to flame because "OMG ragna 10N is faceroll" I would be very grateful if you just continued on to the next thread.

Thanks in advanced.

PS: I know that the warlock is doing very low damage (so are some of others, and even though that might be part of the problem, I think it's more due to excess damage taken).

[Gaarah]

low heal and very low dps o.o, any class with no blue gear can do more than 18k dps and 10k+ hps u gotta 2 heal it and let us know how u handle p2

[Deleted]

Tell everyone in ur raid to visit some raid guide for their specialization and learn how to play. It's really the only honest advice I can give.

[holycrapfour]

while wol is helpfull in figuring out where your problems are, it'd also help to know which particular phase your having issues with that people can help work through

[fizzbob]

dps is low but the main problem is people have shitty situational awareness. look at how many people ate lava waves, they should all be avoided every time. chances are people are accidentally popping traps early, eating those waves and standing in bad stuff

i bet the transition is sloppy too. you just got to make sure everyone understands exactly what is going on. if you can't teach someone else how to do the fight you don't know the fight yourself.

[Aqua]

A casual group will be hard pressed to down Rag... it's a fact that most Raid-snobs tend to forget, it's tactically demanding, communication will be the key to a successful first kill. Healing it 2man, I usually output about 14k by the time it's dead, and in unintentional spikes racking up 21k hps. (Normal)
A good Holy paladin + 1 aoe healer is a good starting backbone for this fight. If you feel everyone is derping too much then you have bigger issues than the healing, Dps need to avoid everything possible.

Dps need to be organized and efficient, movement restricted for survival only, no one can be unsure of the mechanics or any second guessings or head in the cloud moments is going to get them toasted by Seeds, Waves, Engulfing flames, or letting the adds reach the hammer and finally meteors. 2 Well adjusted healers can handle these no problem as the tanks take very low damage in Phase 3, so if you make it there just blast that fucker down and let the healers juggle the rolling meatballs.


But really everyone has to be onboard and well read on the fight. It's a tactically demanding fight, raw Deeps or Healing isn't the winner here. It helps, but it won't win it.

Case in point: Damage done: Lava Wave 1,037,372 3.3 %

That needs to be 0%.

[xzbbzx]

We've been dying quite a bit in phase 2, in the second time round that the seeds are spawned which adds up to the sulfuras smash. At that point it gets a bit chaotic and when the 3rd seeds are spawned, people are too close to eachother, etc.

We're also having many stupid mistakes like sometimes getting hit by one of the waves (it's not often, but it doesn't help).

We'll try 2-healing it, to see if it goes any better... however, some of our healers are going oom as it is (one in particular, I KNOW is a very good healer and knows how to play his class, spec, gem, enchant, reforge, haste breaks, etc).

[Porcell]

There seems like there's a lot of just bad playing overall. The only one I can specifically talk about is your Prot Warrior. He only used Berserker Rage once, didn't use Inner Rage at all, and has a VERY low usage of Heroic Strike. His spec isn't very good (only 1/2 field dressing, he took Blitz and Blood Craze and Impending Victory). He's gemming for stamina, missing enchants, and is reforged completely wrong.

If all of the other characters are similar to him, I can see why there are problems.

You are three healing. You shouldn't be three healing it.

On your best attempt (the second attempt), your Shaman died to a laval wave, and then your DPS warrior died to a melee hit, which means he either pulled agro (unlikely) or both your tanks ran out of melee range during a World in Flames (this is probably what happened). In phase 2, are you splitting up and then stacking in the middle to AoE the Molten Elementals? Your feral druid has very low damage contribution on them, when he should be Swiping the shit out of them.

[Aqua]

If a healer is going out of mana then the raid is derping, period. DBM has an installed Range-o-meter and a countdown for seeds, everyone should have it.

When the seed counter is going FIVE, FOUR, THREE-

You need to be green on the range-o-meter, once you start running away from the seeds, they don't do any damage, only when landing next to each other, so run the fuck through them and get in position.

That healer also might be good but even I had to learn mana efficiency on this fight, so he should try everything, but the raid is probably not making this easier, let the healers prioritize certain targets if they must.

Your hunter is doing decent dps but taking lava waves, that instantly undoes any good he's doing, this is not a race fight.

[Willing]

the first thing you need to focus on is Lava wave

Lava Wave 989534 100.0 % 14 51968.8 727563 16 16373.2 261971 2 47838 30 313364

that means you guys got hit by a total of 14 lava waves, that's gonna be a HUGE reduction in damage taken if you guys can get down the wave dodging.

second, the damage is far to low. can't have people doing under 17k or so. I'm afraid that alone may stop you from ever killing it

I wish you the best of luck, but i'm afraid it looks grim. give us some more details about what phase you guys are getting to and having the most problems with. that will help.

P.S.

It is doable to 3 heal it, but you need your dps to be very good... like several over 20k, my guild 3 heals it, but we've got very good dps. if you don't think you'll be able to get people over 20k, then you will need to push your heals to 2 heal =/.

[Deceipher]

Hello!

Everyone seems to be depiciting a 2-healer strategy. I've been killing ragnaros for weeks with 3 healers on 10-man; works perfectly fine. What tactic are you using in phase 2?
The one I use makes us run from left to right to left (or the other way around, depending on how the transition goes - make sure you communicate this well).
The smashes need to be avoided by everyone. This is not hard at all - if people cannot do this they need to work on their situational awareness (which is key to this fight). If everyone knows what to look out for, it is a lot easier for the healers. Make sure that during transition phases everyone knows where they need to be, keeping in mind the three different positions the hammer can fall in. Also make sure you time the dps on raggy right in p2 - don't want to hit transition with a bunch of adds running haywire!
Tacticwise the fight is a lot harder than the rest of the instance so don't feel bad if you can't make it straight away. Keep practicing and try to get your group to perform at their best!
Good luck

[Deleted]

A casual group will be hard pressed to down Rag... it's a fact that most Raid-snobs tend to forget, it's tactically demanding, communication will be the key to a successful first kill

Ragnaros normal mode is raiding 101. Spread out, stack up, don't stand in the fire, dps the add etc. etc. The difficulty comes from people being unable to co-ordinate or from people who simply cannot react to multiple mechanics EG. Seeds+Engulf+Smash combo in phase 2.

[Aqua]

Further Analysis:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/t...tw1/details/6/

WHAT. IS. Your holy paladin doing!? DIVINE LIGHT DIVINE LIGHT DIVINE LIGHT. Heal the tanks. Let the shaman focus on the raid, Focus target on rag and judgement often enough to keep mana up and use divine plea with volcanic potions, Avenging Wrath on the first spike of Tank stacks (4).
He/She is wasting mana and healing, you might never run out of mana when you use holy light exclusively but you aren't actually healing anymore than a shadow priest who got bored would do. You're a healer, use your most effective spell.

Tell your paladin to check this example instead:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...m/healingDone/

This isn't me but the paladin is my doppleganger, we use the same methods.

Ragnaros normal mode is raiding 101. Spread out, stack up, don't stand in the fire, dps the add etc. etc. The difficulty comes from people being unable to co-ordinate or from people who simply cannot react to multiple mechanics EG. Seeds+Engulf+Smash combo in phase 2.

Yes, that is your average gamer, go meet people and watch them play games. It's mortifying. Average people also play WoW, they do not see things as you do.

[klaps_05]

fix lava wave
fix the guy triggering the traps(aka communicate whether he should blow it up or not at X time so no1 is low)
assign knockback/stuns/slows on each side(spread the raid evenly according to add split
fix healing in transition, make sure people arent all over the place but all in range of healers

molten seeds - dunno what strat u are using - all stand at a side, gather in mid and AOE, while watching out for engulfing/hammer(hammer is on all EVEN molten seed waves(aka 2nd/4th/6th/etc))

im guessing ur mage is doing traps - still his dps is very low, make sure he doesnt waste dps doing traps(aka for arcane stack ABs, do trap, blink, keep AB stacks, etc).

my guess for ur dps is that people are probably moving excessively as in they see a wave and everyone runs somewhere - u move only if its gonna hit u.

overall dps is too low, read up guides,gear,enchants, etc.

[SkyBlueAri]

Everyone seems to be depiciting a 2-healer strategy. I've been killing ragnaros for weeks with 3 healers on 10-man; works perfectly fine.

Heroic Rag is 2 healed. Id say its not a far stretch for normal rag to be 2 healed. Even 1 healed lol.


PS sounds like a troll thread.

[Hanto]

o.o Wow you have three people pulling under 15k dps... one of them is even under a tank. I'd say that's a pretty big problem. Healing is looking pretty bad as well. Looks like the paladin is teetering on 9k hps (still pretty bad) and your shammies probably aren't doing something right with that low amount of hps.

Seeing people hit by lava waves... that's a big no-no. Has your group watched a video or considered like... actually reading up on their class? If the warrior tank is as bad as Porcell says... =\ I can see why your healers may be going oom or stuggling too much to keep him up while letting other people die. I'd consider asking people to revise their specs and read up on their class/spec and watch the video for an example of how it goes. It's a pretty easy fight, the players are over complicating the battle.

[sinisterwyvern]

We've been dying quite a bit in phase 2, in the second time round that the seeds are spawned which adds up to the sulfuras smash. At that point it gets a bit chaotic and when the 3rd seeds are spawned, people are too close to eachother, etc.

We're also having many stupid mistakes like sometimes getting hit by one of the waves (it's not often, but it doesn't help).

We'll try 2-healing it, to see if it goes any better... however, some of our healers are going oom as it is (one in particular, I KNOW is a very good healer and knows how to play his class, spec, gem, enchant, reforge, haste breaks, etc).

For the 2nd round of seeds where the sulfuras smash comes down on the raid, we all stack up right on the rim of the lava in front of the smash, no chance of eating it.

[lightofdawn]

might just be spit ballin but it might be because 4 people on ur DPS meter are doing 1k or more dps less than me, and im a tank... >.>

edit: looked at the longest attempt to see the most accurate dps results saw 2 12k's a 9k and an 11k

i can see if the 9k is a tank, but the 11k is a frost DK, and ive done more than that on my frost dk in mostly t11 gear

not trying to be a douche just saying what i see

[xzbbzx]

Thanks for all the responses.

To address some things in particular, the healer I was referring to as "very good" normally ends all previous boss fights with 70%+ mana left and is doing around 12% overhealing approximately, so it's not so much a case of him wasting mana with overhealing as wasting mana healing things like lava waves.

As some of you have stated, the main problem is the situational awareness of some players. Some people struggle really hard with noticing things around them (and I'm talking about people that have been raiding for 3+ years). I've been trying to teach them through 2 years, and even though they are getting better, it's nowhere near where it should be.

About our feral druid swiping, he's the tank... he's normally paying attention to not loosing the boss' aggro to the other tank, and even then, he's swiping and thrashing the adds.

What we do in phase 2 is: get to one side of the room, be spread apart (enough to not hit anyone with the seeds), then run to the other side (not all the way), group up, aoe the adds down, and then spread up again. The thing is that the second time round ragnaros spawns the seeds, three abilities very nearly align: World in Flames is active while we're trying to position ourselves, then, when we're more or less positioned, there is a sulfuras smash (we're now positioning in melee range, but it's now always possible do to world in flames), we then have to spread out again for the next seeds. This is where we're normally failing, because people start moving like headless chicken and, while trying to spread out, run into other people, etc.

@Porcell, yeah, that warrior was hit because there was a world in flames in melee range and both tanks went too far away.

In tomorrow's raid, we'll be 2-healing it and see if it goes any better (which it should).

Again, thanks for all the feedback, it's really helpful.

EDIT:
As for the general fight goes, we're putting nearly everyone in melee range (to avoid sulfuras smash).
Our mage is blowing up traps (making sure everyone has high hp).

Only people outside of melee range (that have got to avoid waves) are both of our resto shamans, the mage and the hunter).

[Senka]

Hand of Ragnaros hits only people in melee range of him, and it interrupts casting. While clearly you have just plain poor quality raiders, that interrupt is only hurting DPS more. Another thing many people don't seem to notice is that Lava Wave's DoT is a Magic debuff. If at least your healers have reflexes, make sure they dispel it from people. That dispel should do more than any heal.

Edit: I looked at the logs in more detail, specifically Player Deaths. I... really don't have any idea how you even beat Fandral Staghelm with raiders like that. They're pretty much doing everything wrong that they can possibly do. One of the shamans even got hit by Sulfuras Smash directly, not just the Lava Wave. It's possible that was just after it was a wipe already, though. Still, I don't see them improving nearly enough to beat Ragnaros. I'm sorry, and I don't mean to be insulting, but I just don't see any possible way these people could defeat Ragnaros. They're not cut out for raiding. As someone before me said, raiding is VERY demanding for the average person.