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  1. #1

    [Holy] Healing alongside a Resto Druid in FL

    Hi, I've recently switched from Shadow to Holy but even though I've reforged for haste and I'm FL-geared, I'm really struggling to keep up on heals (especially alongside a resto druid less geared than me). When I look at meters, I'm going oom pushing 10k hps, while the druid in my raid is completely fine doing 15k+ hps. Basically, I stay in Sanctuary and use PoH, PoM, CoH, and Holy Word: Sanctuary. I also keep renew on tanks and whoever else might need it.

    Any suggestions/tips would be greatly appreciated.
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  2. #2
    Pandaren Monk Spacebubble's Avatar
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    Reroll Disc if you're healing with a resto druid. best advice I can give you.

  3. #3
    first of all: it really doesnt matter as long as you're not wiping because of too less healing done. but nevertheless, you will never be able to outheal (in terms of hps) a resto druid. they're simply healbots...
    that being said, if you dont care what specc you're playing i would also suggest going disc. it's the better healer combo.

  4. #4
    Bloodsail Admiral nobodysbaby's Avatar
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    Try healing without Sanctuary, it's horribly mana consuming and almost never worth it in 10's. As they say above me, going Disc is something you should consider.

  5. #5
    If he plays well, don't expect to get ahead of the resto in 4.2, ever.

    If your running oom, HW:Sanctuary might not be a good choice of spell yet. Also, you could reforge to mastery instead of haste if your running oom.
    I imagine you talk about FL normal (10k hps?). If you run oom, don't hesitate to use heal, which is good in normal.

    Defining the roles (tank-healing/raid-healing) better might help you both too (limit overheal).

    Also, Holo-Resto is not the best combo. I'd suggest you go disc, which bring nice synergy.

  6. #6
    I feel your pain. I am MS Disc and OS Holy, only really go holy for H Domo becasue of all the AoE but when I tried Holy the entire time, I was always oom and never really healing much. I am at the correct Haste breakpoint and have full 4p t12, but just cant do it. Im chalking it up to me just being bad at holy, but yea you wont beat a R druid. To powerfull. My ilvl 351 R Druid was beating like 370 priests and shamans in firelands. Although R Druid was my MS early Cata so I do know how to play.
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  7. #7
    Brewmaster ramennoodleking's Avatar
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    Disc, holy, doesn't matter. Would be nice to have logs and armory.

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  8. #8
    Assuming this is 10 man, go Serenity and rely on GHeal while keeping Renew refreshed on the tanks. Keep PoM bouncing, CoH on CD if the raid is taking damage and don't fight the other healer, clean up their mass. On 10 man, I've also found Mastery much nicer than Haste and PoH is a lot more niche.


    Holy in FL 10 is perfectly fine. It's true for heroics, it's especially true for normals. I can give you tips if you want, but I need specifics. Which fights are you having issue with and what are you assigned to?
    Last edited by Themos; 2011-11-21 at 08:20 PM.

  9. #9
    Herald of the Titans Yilar's Avatar
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    Go disc.....

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    Last edited by Arlee; 2011-11-21 at 09:08 PM.

  10. #10
    Mechagnome Vand3tz's Avatar
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    Disc is, sadly, your best bet. Might be different for you in 4.3 but you're really not doing yourself or your guild any favours by playing holy
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  11. #11
    For normal 10 man FL, going disc is most definitely not required, regardless of what all the above posters suggest. We run a pally, priest, druid healing combo in my guild and our healer has done it all holy and disc, normal and heroic modes, at one time or another. He's currently stuck on holy because he was enjoying it more. Druids are incredibly OP right now, so don't compare yourself to them. Look at your healing, your overhealing, what spells are you casting. If you are having mana issues, then you're most likely not healing as efficiently as you could be. Run a log if you haven't, you will learn a lot from a combat log. Post it on the forums and we can help you go through it for more specific tips.

    There aren't very many situations, outside of P2 Beth, scorpion phase Majordomo, and P4 Alys, where sanctuary is worth using at all this tier in 10 man. It is really expensive, and if people aren't stacked for the whole duration, it's not worth dropping. Renew spamming can also be a dangerous mana loss. You have a druid hotting everyone up, it's not necessary for you to also be doing that. Keep it on the tanks, but use it sparingly on the raid. I use Heal a lot in 10 man. For me it's a free cast, I regen more than the mana cost during the cast. It's a great spell to go to during times of lower damage to regen. Reserve Flash Heal for times when it's absolutely necessary (unless it's a free proc). Flash Heal can really drain your mana if you are using it a lot. If you do need to cast it, make sure to utilize your Serendipity bonus afterwards with a PoH or Greater Heal.

    Haste stacking might also be a cause of your mana issues. If you don't have the regen to keep up with your haste, you will oom much faster. It's pretty easy to hit 12.5% haste, and then go for mastery. As you get more gear, you will feel more comfortable with more haste. Change some stats around, see what works best for your healing style. Best of luck!

  12. #12
    I've 2 healed certain fights with a Resto Druid. Both specs work well for different encounters. For example I found Holy to be more comfortable for me during p2 H Rhyolith than Disc, specifically due to the Test of Faith talent. But on a fight like H Alysrazor I would usually play Disc (or more likely just sit and let a dps in) when paired to heal with our Resto Druid.

    For normal Firelands I can't see spec selection mattering too much anymore, except for possibly Baleroc and maybe Domo if you are taking a lot of cleaves. PW: Barrier is going to be a nice CD to have handy for that situation.

    Imo, just have both specs available and if things aren't going well on a certain fight, try the other spec.

    If you can run WoL, as others have said, and you are still having a rough time in FL, posting your logs here can help us see what you can do to improve. ^.^
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  13. #13
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    My experience while playing Holy in FL:

    * It works better in a 25 man environment where you can get full use of HW:Sanc and stay in Chakra:Sanc as well. Unfortunately.
    * The fights where Holy worked well for me in ten man anyway were Ryolith, Beth (downstairs healing is great with Renew, PoM, Lightwell and CoH) and Ragnaros (good use of both Lightwell, B&S and even HW:Sanc).
    * It can also be useful on Shannox if you are healing the dog tank. B&S is helpful for kiting the dog and resetting stacks.
    * Majordomo can be done in any spec, but if you plan on taking a lot of scorpion phases, Disc has a stronger raid CD. Holy can use Lightwell (glyphed) and HW:Sanc to cover this but is generally more mana hungry. Same goes for Alys as for Domo really.
    * Use Chakra Serenity unless it is a specific AoE scenario. On Beth and Ryo you can arguably manage in Sanc all the time though.
    * Glyph of Lightwell is fabulous for saving mana. It has a very high HPM. Use it as a mini raid CD or get it out and then pop fiend+HoH or a potion of concentration. The raid can heal themselves on the well.
    * As Holy is more mana intensive than Disc, call out to tanks and raid when you need to regen so they can use Lightwell, Healthstones, or the druid can cover for you while you regen. Going oom is worse than taking a short regen break.
    * If you run oom, focus on getting more Mastery and let EoL run its course.

    Only Baleroc is backwards as holy (this is imho at least). As Disc he is almost faceroll, as Holy he is oom-land unless you are running with very high spirit. It's also easier to build stacks as Disc, since neither ProM nor HW:Serenity build stacks (unless the latter has changed?), while PW:shield with glyph and Penance are easier to utilise for stack building. You can also easier switch to turbo gear with Power Infusion as Disc, while Holy has to rely on Flash heal x2 + hasted Gheal to reach anything similar in stack building. That said, I am sure he is doable on normal as Holy, but expect it to be a tad harder than as Disc.

    As a sidenote, I feel Disc compliments a druid better than a Holy priest as both druids and holy are stronger on raid healing, but that doesn't mean it can't work out. The times I am Holy myself is normally when healing alongside a paladin. This is for normal modes. For HC modes I am always Disc due to raid CD usage and mana efficiency.
    Last edited by Laseen; 2011-11-22 at 08:30 AM.

  14. #14
    Fluffy Kitten Ultima's Avatar
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    Hi Snowy Vixen,

    Thanks for coming here to ask for help! However, like others have said, we will need more information. You can find the kind of information we need/ expect to help you fully here: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...e-and-sure-way! (I'm aware there's a daunting amount of sticky threads to read before posting, we are working on it!)

    Along with that information, could you also answer:
    • 10 mans? How far are you? Are you doing hard modes?
    • Do you 3 or 2 heal these fights? What's your comp?

    What I can tell you from what you've said is, don't worry about keeping up with a Resto Druid at the moment. They have stronger AoE healing and better mana efficiency. Not to say that you can't improve, but we need to be realistic.
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Laseen View Post
    Only Baleroc is backwards as holy (this is imho at least). As Disc he is almost faceroll, as Holy he is oom-land unless you are running with very high spirit. It's also easier to build stacks as Disc, since neither ProM nor HW:Serenity build stacks (unless the latter has changed?), while PW:shield with glyph and Penance are easier to utilise for stack building. You can also easier switch to turbo gear with Power Infusion as Disc, while Holy has to rely on Flash heal x2 + hasted Gheal to reach anything similar in stack building. That said, I am sure he is doable on normal as Holy, but expect it to be a tad harder than as Disc.
    I disagree with this. I do Baleroc as Holy and it handles the fight just fine on 10H. FHealx2/Gheal rotation for stacking sparks works very well, I typically get up to about 65 sparks and that's without the crystal tank taking a whole crystal, he stops around 22ish stacks usually. The mana efficiency isn't ideal, but it's definitely 'good' enough for the fight. The only trick is timing in the use of a fiend/hymn, the window is very narrow but it's there if you know what to look for.

    As a sidenote, I feel Disc compliments a druid better than a Holy priest as both druids and holy are stronger on raid healing, but that doesn't mean it can't work out. The times I am Holy myself is normally when healing alongside a paladin. This is for normal modes. For HC modes I am always Disc due to raid CD usage and mana efficiency.

    If Im healing in my 10H runs, I'm Holy and usually in Serenity. I heal with a Resto druid and shaman. I do the bulk of the tank healing and handle it fine. Holy's very flexible, and it's often overlooked. Holy isn't just some raid heal spec. It's a solid tank healing spec as well.

    I can MT heal all the fights in FL on heroic just fine.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Themos View Post
    I can MT heal all the fights in FL on heroic just fine.
    A demo lock can tank birds on alysrazor. Doesn't mean tanks won't do it better.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinn View Post
    A demo lock can tank birds on alysrazor. Doesn't mean tanks won't do it better.
    there is actually a viable tactic on heroic using a demo lock to tank the first 2 sets of birds while flying. they burn them down while in meta so they dont get crit and have high armor. you then let the tanks use the 3rd set of birds to clean up the worms.

    OT; healing meters matter so very little if its a kill. its not like DPS where boss has X amount of life and you can always kill it faster. HPS is directly related to raid DMG taken. if your raiders are smart and dont take unneeded dmg, or use CDs at the proper times, then you wont do as much HPS.

    also a resto druid tends to keep HoTs on targets just because(assuming they dont run oom). these quickly heal people after burst dmg has gone out(rhyo stomps, beth pulses, rag traps/seeds, etc)/ while you can do this to an extent as holy(renew) more of your AoE healing is tied to PoH/CoH/PoM, the first 2 are reactionary and can be sniped causing over healing and the 3rd you have very little control over.

    TL;DR: healing meters dont matter.
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  18. #18
    Simple Answer: Druids are OP and Holy is too reliant on spirit to have the same amount of throughput.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themos View Post
    I disagree with this. I do Baleroc as Holy and it handles the fight just fine on 10H. FHealx2/Gheal rotation for stacking sparks works very well, I typically get up to about 65 sparks and that's without the crystal tank taking a whole crystal, he stops around 22ish stacks usually. The mana efficiency isn't ideal, but it's definitely 'good' enough for the fight. The only trick is timing in the use of a fiend/hymn, the window is very narrow but it's there if you know what to look for.
    .
    Oh, I never said you CAN'T, just that it is backwards, i.e. much harder.

    Also, whether or not your mana lasts really is reliant on your DPS. More DPS means a shorter fight and smaller health pool on the tank to heal up. Maybe your DPS are good enough. I can say for certain some of ours are not. Case in point: I had over 130 stacks last time I did HC Baleroc...

    I don't think it is good advice to tell people who are already struggling to go down the more difficult route, which in this case is to heal it as Holy.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Laseen View Post
    Oh, I never said you CAN'T, just that it is backwards, i.e. much harder.
    why?


    Also, whether or not your mana lasts really is reliant on your DPS. More DPS means a shorter fight and smaller health pool on the tank to heal up. Maybe your DPS are good enough. I can say for certain some of ours are not. Case in point: I had over 130 stacks last time I did HC Baleroc...
    /facepalm

    Reread what you are responding to. I get ~65 sparks off of the first crystal with the person tanking it only taking it to 22 stacks.
    I get well into the the 130 territory by the end of the fight as well. Anything over a 100 is gravy for the fight, in all honesty.

    And the first few times we downed him, we took it to enrage + a few seconds. Very sloppy kills.


    I don't think it is good advice to tell people who are already struggling to go down the more difficult route, which in this case is to heal it as Holy.

    But it's not :}

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