Blizzard pulling off skippable content again?

[Meleti]

And every. single. guild. hated recruiting a new member because it meant scheduling old ass radis that no one wanted to do in order to get the new kid up to par.

I think people tend to forget this. Recruiting sucked, and there were huge incentives to just steal raiders from other guilds because they were already attuned and geared.

[Deleted]

And every. single. guild. hated recruiting a new member because it meant scheduling old ass radis that no one wanted to do in order to get the new kid up to par.

All raids now also have a 10 man version. Getting the people and scheduling raids were only a pain in the ass because you needed so many people and had to use a raid night on it. All normal modes are puggable atm unless you are completely retarded and those are the kind of people I would like to exclude from raids.

[Aethilus]

That's what the game is supposed to be all about, and it's an important part of it's fun.. but i guess for you, new players, it's not fun to work for the stuff you want 'cos it's a game....

In TBC, i roled server/class and everything.. i went from raiding SSC to see how BT patch came out while i was still lelveling my new main, which has been so for 5 years now. I was gearing up while some people was in MH and attempting the first boss in BT, but hell i was having so much fun, because i know that all my work was going to be soo worth when i'd join those peps in BT after an entire rerol! and It definitely was.

If then i could have just payed 45 Euros to switch it all at the moment and would't have needed to gear up scaling instances a bit, it would have been a boring and not exciting at all change.

I played during the tbc and classic time frame too when you did have to progress through the tiers linearly and spend that many more weeks to 'reroll'. I like the current model, bundling the people who like it into 'new players' isn't accurate. Try an in my opinion somewhere.

[Bitlovin]

I've yet to make my way into Firelands

No offense, but just because you are late to the party doesn't mean the content was designed to be skipped. You said it yourself, you missed chunks of content. Those of us who have grinded all of the raids this xpac are quite happy to move on.

[ZenX]

Think about it, with the coming of patch 4.3 we will have new heroics and a new raid, the problem lies with the rewards though.

All of us remember the end of wotlk (except thus that didn't play then), ToC and ICC were the only raids being done, simply because Naxx, OS, EoE and Ulduar didn't reward you as good as the newer heroics did, and in the end most people didn't even do ToC, leaving us with 12 bosses in ICC and 1 in RS for what lasted a year.

Let's take a look at patch 4.3, as it pretty much does the exact same thing.

Here's the pattern you will get Ilvl currently:

Cata Normals: Ilvl 333
Cata Heroics: Ilvl 346
Zandalari HCs: Ilvl 353
BWD, BoT, Totfw: Ilvl 359
Firelands Normal: Ilvl 372
Firelands HC: Ilvl 391

Now that we will get new heroics, let's check it out during patch 4.3:

Cata Normals: Ilvl 333
Cata Heroics: Ilvl 346
Zandalari HCs: Ilvl 353
Hour of Twilight HCs: Ilvl 372
Dragon Soul RF: Ilvl 384
Dragon Soul Normal: Ilvl 397
Dragon Soul HC: Ilvl 410

So judging from this, we're going to skip BoT, BWD and TotFW with help from Zandalari gear and VP rewards, assuming the HoT HCs requires an average Ilvl of 365 which sounds about reasonable. So we're gonna end up completely skipping the first tier of raiding along with skipping Firelands completely as we're getting FL quality gear from the new HCs, and the new Raid Finder makes it a lot easier to skip headwards into Dragon Soul Normal. That makes me kinda sad as I've yet to make my way into Firelands, the one place I've been waiting for the most to raid since Vanilla.

Thus, we're gonna hang on the same 8 bosses for what can easily last a year as MoP has just been announced. I don't know with you guys, but I'm not up for wasting a whole year on the same 8 bosses, especially when they're as boring as they now are (many of them remind me of HC quality bosses, Morchok and Ultraxion being the most boring ones by far, Deathwing's 2 encounters being the only really fun ones).

Now I'm sure this has been brought up before, but the search function doesn't want to work on my computer, so I beg you guys:
Please prove this wrong! I don't want to raid the same 8 dull bosses for a year! <- Count that as a TL;DR.

Actually, come 4.3 you will be able to skip, 346, 353 heroics in addition to t11 and t12 content by farming justice from normals(leveling entirely through LFD will let gain around 9k JP, 4k of which can be kept as JP and remainder to be turned into HP, which can be converted back to around 3.4k JP) to step into HoT HCs which leads them to T13 LFR.

Blizzard is whining regarding how people consume content fast, however, in effect people are just racing to "epicz" of the latest content, hence skipping whatever they see unnecessary, which essentially is the very reason why the content is not lasting long.
Such was the case pre-nerfs, heroics were pretty much too hard for majority to do them(and not homogenized, compare vortex pinnacle with deadmines, or LCoT with grim batol, the difficulty between them were huge as great as a single tier), hence blocking the access to t11 raids(which were not really accessible aswell) and heroics themselves with remainder of end-game content being less.
Similar to 346-hcs, Zandalari before nerfs was hard for the majority aswell, and with the arrival of 4.2, came the nerfs, however, came the skipping of 346-content due JP gear off-setting the gap between normals and zandalari.
The irony is Blizzard whining about people getting content starved, whereas the starvation is solely due to player-greed focused on "shinies"(similar to how tons of 3/7 FL were crying to get new content while they were not even 7/7), however, they are making it even far much more easier for players to skip content.

I am not a fan of players having have get bottlenecked at certain points except heroic raids whose only reason to exist is to serve such purpose as the way it is right now. However, I don't like it when I group up with a player who doesn't know what to do yet in full gear, due to him/her underperforming to the point that we end-up wiping solely due to this player, other than that I really have wouldn't care if Blizzard had thrown us gear with bucket.

The game itself right now lacks a proper path of progression that evolves the player, hence, Blizzard should make it so that at least entry-wise, player should complete the previous content to access the newer one(bear in mind this is like a one-time only with the matter of gear-farming and such exclusive to the player, far from the grind through every stage).

Such that, in the case of entry requirement it should have been the following for the expansion:
Normal(max ilvl 333): No requirement

Heroics 1(ilvl 340): Normals

Heroics 2(ilvl 346): Heroics 1

Tier 11 Normal(ilvl 359): Heroics 2 ( & Zandalari if it was launched at start)

Zandalari(ilvl 353): Heroics 2 (Such a tier should have been launched at expansion's start)

Tier 12 Normal(ilvl 378): Tier 11N & Zandalari (Only T11N if the zandalari were launched at start)

HoT HC(ilvl 378): Zandalari

Tier 13 (ilvl 384 in LFR, 397 in Normal): Tier 12 Normal & HoT HC

TL;DR: Blizzard should return to a TBC-esque ladder progression, which follows a lighter model. And any of you who are whining regarding doing something for a time of 8-10 months, you actually don't want as this is a game and in the case of "But Annual Pass" excuse, you are able to predict this now, and wasn't when you had "herpderp-accepted" the aggreement?

[wariofan1]

I more made this thread for the sake of levelling up alts, currently having a druid close to 85, and I'm not satisfied not getting to experience the tier 1 raids as a ranged as I usually play melee, and as I said, I've yet to enter Firelands. Also, again, sticking with the same 8 bosses for half a year is no fun, especially as boring as these Dragon Soul bosses are.

I have a feeling this won't end well for Blizzard, especially with people being dissatisfied already now.

No offense, but just because you are late to the party doesn't mean the content was designed to be skipped. You said it yourself, you missed chunks of content. Those of us who have grinded all of the raids this xpac are quite happy to move on.

I'm most likely not the only one in my position, and I'm most definately not the only one rotting on a server with nearly no raids, I'm also not the only one doing pugs for ''a living''. You could easily move on if we weren't to skip it, judging from your post you will have about full Firelands gear and be on your way to Dragon Soul already now, but this is more for the sake of alts, and people like me.

[Deleted]

I more made this thread for the sake of levelling up alts, currently having a druid close to 85, and I'm not satisfied not getting to experience the tier 1 raids as a ranged as I usually play melee, and as I said, I've yet to enter Firelands. Also, again, sticking with the same 8 bosses for half a year is no fun, especially as boring as these Dragon Soul bosses are.

I have a feeling this won't end well for Blizzard, especially with people being dissatisfied already now.

Honestly the idea of attunements required on all your character is a bad idea because it will burn out people who like to level many characters, account wide attunements is the way to go.

[Deleted]

I don't understand why your thread is based on the assumption that ''there is a problem.''

I don't think there is. TBC forced players to dog their way through content to gear up/attune for the later content, but this resulted in barely anyone seeing the end of the expansion's encounters when they were current. Blizzard mentioned it as being only a few %.

So, no. I hope skippable content stays as it is, I play it while its current anyway.

[wariofan1]

Honestly the idea of attunements required on all your character is a bad idea because it will burn out people who like to level many characters, account wide attunements is the way to go.

Oh god no, you're misunderstanding, I don't want attunements, those were horrible, I would rather than we don't skip content because the heroics will give us too high Ilvl gear. Give it somewhere around 365 Ilvl, in that way we wouldn't be forced to skip Firelands, but still skip tier 1 raiding as I can see many people don't want to do it all over again on a alt.

I don't understand why your thread is based on the assumption that ''there is a problem.''

I don't think there is.

It's the experience and the fun that matters in this game my dear, not the gear.

[Barnabas]

Oh god no, you're misunderstanding, I don't want attunements, those were horrible, I would rather than we don't skip content because the heroics will give us too high Ilvl gear. Give it somewhere around 365 Ilvl, in that way we wouldn't be forced to skip Firelands, but still skip tier 1 raiding as I can see many people don't want to do it all over again on a alt.



It's the experience and the fun that matters in this game my dear, not the gear.

Then the game would have more gear gaps than now and not everyone would be on the same tier. Just because some people show up late to the party doesn't mean everyone already there needs to repeat the same events just for you missing out on them. I sat mc 2.0 on purpose and sure I missed one decent encounter but I'm not regretting it. H rag will still have enough meat on the bone in the challenge department If I want to tackle it after 4.3 .

[DetectiveJohnKimble]

Not sure where you're getting that these bosses are boring, besides Morchok on reg. If you think they are, maybe you should move on to console games with better boss battles. I doubt you'll find much better encounter designs in another MMO.

[Deleted]

I think what most people is forgetting is that if achievements were introduced today it would be nothing like it were back in vanilla and tbc, back then "normal" raids were all you had and they were not considered normal of todays standard.

If achievements were introduced today all you would have to do would be killing the end boss of a raid and/or heroic dungeon to be able to move onto the next raid. Attunements would not exclude a lot of people from doing what they like as very little skill would be required, it would however filter out the 1-5% extremely bad players that none of us dont have any intentions of playing with anyways.

[Naposim1337]

yeah i totally want to be looking for t11 and t12 pugs with my 5 alts. This is very solid system, which can and most likely will be pulled off when there will be LFR for all raids.

[Yuuki Asuna]

Oh god no, you're misunderstanding, I don't want attunements, those were horrible, I would rather than we don't skip content because the heroics will give us too high Ilvl gear. Give it somewhere around 365 Ilvl, in that way we wouldn't be forced to skip Firelands, but still skip tier 1 raiding as I can see many people don't want to do it all over again on a alt.



It's the experience and the fun that matters in this game my dear, not the gear.

Actually the minimum requirement for the new heroics is ilevel 353, I've already tested it and it states on PTR that you need 353.

[mikencarly]

Not sure where you're getting that these bosses are boring, besides Morchok on reg. If you think they are, maybe you should move on to console games with better boss battles. I doubt you'll find much better encounter designs in another MMO.

They are boring for some reason it just doesnt feel right.

[Judgement27]

In the older method of devolving back to earlier raids just to gear, you end up punishing the people who do not raid as often AKA casuals. The reason you end up punishing some of the casuals is because they only have a limited amount of time in order to raid and some of them would prefer not having to do the 1st raid of the expansion endlessly in hopes of gearing up to the next stage. That is the whole reason blizzard changed the instancing/raiding format.

Either way blizzard goes, in any form of decisions, it ends up being a double edged sword with the entire population of WoW.

Can you not just be content with the game, and just enjoy it?

[ZenX]

Yes of course?
Else a new level 85 would have to:
Get quest greens
Get normal blues
Get heroric blues
Get zandalari epics
Get BoT/BwD/Throne epics
Get Firelands epics
Get new HC epics
And finally do Dragon soul

Once you can actually enter Dragon soul a new tier or MoP is released.

With current LFD system, that would be far from the truth...

Except you wouldn't have to, as how gearing and content-progression works right now compared to TBC, right now you can pretty much LFD the whole 80-85 leveling arriving with enough JPs get your entry into Zandalaris, come 4.3 that will HoT HCs, however, the problem is a new level 85 will high-probably(if not an exception) will arrive with almost zero to no raiding experience, hence, either Blizzard will end-up nerfing the released tier constantly for these "lazy" players and enrage players who steamroll through them, as you should bear in mind that when you play the game for story-progression rather than "OMFG Challenge", moving beyond normals unless done similar to Ulduar HMs is a waste of time for such bunch who are a majority, elseway, you'll just end-up blocking these "lazy" players from the content, which is a terrible design flaw for a game.

I support the idea of every player having to do every content previous to the current one, in a quest-like fashion that would award JPs or gear, which would also further help in gearing the player. As the focus of this system is rather in a form to orient the player to get experienced while gear is slowy accumulated, so that player only needs to do previous content(t1 heroics, t11, zandalaris and t12) once and access the newer one, however, time-spent being a relative quantity, this may get to be done in a matter of a full-day, a week or a month.

In the older method of devolving back to earlier raids just to gear, you end up punishing the people who do not raid as often AKA casuals. The reason you end up punishing some of the casuals is because they only have a limited amount of time in order to raid and some of them would prefer not having to do the 1st raid of the expansion endlessly in hopes of gearing up to the next stage. That is the whole reason blizzard changed the instancing/raiding format.

Either way blizzard goes, in any form of decisions, it ends up being a double edged sword with the entire population of WoW.

Can you not just be content with the game, and just enjoy it?

Actually it can be attained as how LFD system is a blessing upon every player if Blizzard gets to design the game fully exploiting this tool.
For more explanation, read my posts above.

[underdogba]

I'll be going to Firelands (both normal and heroic) to get Mandibles of Beth'tilac.

Because Deathstrike actually hitting when you need it as a tank is overrated?

[Deleted]

Don't raid them for a year. Just unsub like any rational person when you've had enough.

This. Ppl are forgetting to play games for fun. Srsly, if you dont like it, dont do it...

[Imnick]

Surely you'd be doing those 8 bosses regardless because you've already cleared the others
You'd have as much reason to go back and do them again if we were on a tbc model as you do now, none