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  1. #1

    Fundamental LFR problem

    The big problem with LFR is that once you have done it once you get nothing for doing it again. Compare to LFG, where people that outgear it still do it to get Valor.

    So once you outgear the LFR, you wont ever do it again. If you still need valor, you will go to dungeons - faster and easier.

    What this will mean is that EVERYONE there will be needing gear, so in the case of the coveted tokens you will -always- be rolling against 8+ people for them.

    At least in Baradin you are only rolling against your class (PVE), and there are lots of people that are only there for either pvp or pve exclusively, further reducing the competition for gear.

    What needs to happen is they need to just add extra valor badges as rewards, only after the first completion, so that higher geared people will be encouraged to run it for the Valor more than once, and lesser geared people wont have such a hard time getting loot.


    Furthering this idea, the LFR is -fun-. It is much funner than most of the LFG dungeons, and they are aimed at the same casual gamer, so why not allow people to run them more than once, and actually get something out of it?

  2. #2
    I know many people that are enjoying running LFR multiple times as to not be bored. It is fun to do some of the fights since you can treat them as patchwerk style fights and avoid boss abilities and just zerg. Some people actually do play this game for more than loot.

  3. #3
    Mechagnome Jeffyjimbob's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure they just want it to be raiding for those who have no time, and a raid to help gear you up a bit more than dungeons can, so you can do normal modes. I don't think they intend for it to remain a... fun thing I guess?

    Think of it this way, it's like running normal dungeons until you have the iLvl for heroic dungeons. Once you can do normal raids easily, why bother with LFR?

  4. #4
    Unless your running normal and heroic when it comes out, its gonna be awhile before u outgear it, 25 people in a raid, lots of alts, you pretty much will always roll against someone else. Just like raiding normal/heroic, lot's of rng involved, u may raid and go 8/8 and get nothing that week.

  5. #5
    Dreadlord kushlol's Avatar
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    A lot of people so far seems to have this weird sense of thinking that everyone in an lfr group in the future will be going for every piece of loot and that just won't be the case. I highly doubt the chances of you getting an item won't be any less then joining a pug pre LFR when it was just pugging on your server. I've done plenty of pugs where I've only needed one item in the entire instance and that's going to happen just the same in lfr.

    Furthermore I personally feel like everyone is about to be spoonfed gear with LFR and honestly shouldn't be in such an uproar over their possible reduced chances at loot per week. If you want to compete less for gear idk maybe do it the old fashioned way and join a guild ? Nvm that would force people to deal with additional fight mechanics for better loot.

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  6. #6
    I enjoy running LFR even when I'm locked out from loot.

    Give me a chance to play my warlock in a raid situation (because heroics just aren't the same) and learn how to play my Death Knight more effectively.



    I wish there was more trash or adventuring in the raid though. Like Ulduar had pretty stuff to look at.
    It's not as bad as Trial of the Crusader though lol.

    Also, I wish it was tuned the tiniest bit harder.
    The nerf to Hagaras icewalls was uncalled for.
    Last edited by Lykoris; 2011-12-04 at 08:03 AM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by kushlol View Post
    A lot of people so far seems to have this weird sense of thinking that everyone in an lfr group in the future will be going for every piece of loot and that just won't be the case. I highly doubt the chances of you getting an item won't be any less then joining a pug pre LFR when it was just pugging on your server. I've done plenty of pugs where I've only needed one item in the entire instance and that's going to happen just the same in lfr.

    Furthermore I personally feel like everyone is about to be spoonfed gear with LFR and honestly shouldn't be in such an uproar over their possible reduced chances at loot per week. If you want to compete less for gear idk maybe do it the old fashioned way and join a guild ? Nvm that would force people to deal with additional fight mechanics for better loot.
    As i explained, there are no motivations to do LFR after you outgear it.

    Guilds throw together alt runs of content that they outgear to help one of their friends gear up and usually invite a few pugs to fill out the slots. This wont happen with LFR.

    People do GDKP runs of content that they outgear to make some money. This wont happen with LFR.

    People run Hdungeons that they outgear to get valor for gear, or to sell gear. This wont happen with LFR.

    Valor gear + crafted in this patch covers every slot on your character. This is the first time that this has been systematically applied. People can outgear the LFR system without doing anything but dungeons. The point being that there will be much less "I -NEED- X item that only drops off Y boss" in this patch, especially for the casuals that run LFR.

    I never said that i wanted gear to be spoonfed to me, how hard the instances are should determine how hard it is to get gear, not RNG.

    Implying that the answer to the issue that I raised is just joining a guild and doing the raids normally is as offtopic as it is irrelevant, especially coming from a moderator.
    Last edited by anothdae; 2011-12-04 at 08:25 AM. Reason: clarity

  8. #8
    Blizzard has always used low drop rates as a gating mechanism. LFR is no different.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffyjimbob View Post
    I'm pretty sure they just want it to be raiding for those who have no time, and a raid to help gear you up a bit more than dungeons can, so you can do normal modes. I don't think they intend for it to remain a... fun thing I guess?

    Think of it this way, it's like running normal dungeons until you have the iLvl for heroic dungeons. Once you can do normal raids easily, why bother with LFR?
    They explicitly said that the reason was so casuals could experience the content, albeit nerfed, without having to be in a raiding guild. Many people, myself included both cant raid due to RL work schedules or simply do not want to spend their friday / saturday nights raiding, which the majority of guilds raid on.

    I dont think that it was in place to help you gear up, since the valor gear is the same ilvl, AND the normal modes are tuned at like 360 ilvl. (at least the first 5 are)

    ---------- Post added 2011-12-04 at 08:36 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by yurano View Post
    Blizzard has always used low drop rates as a gating mechanism. LFR is no different.
    My post made NO mention of drop rates, it addressed the fact that only people that need the gear would be using LFR, thus vastly decreasing the probability of you getting loot.

    Think of the zul dungeons. 5-6 weeks into 4.2 a significant amount of the people running those didn't need any gear from them, they were doing them for the valor. In 5-6 weeks will people that dont need gear from LFR be doing it? No, because they wont get -anything- from doing it.
    Last edited by anothdae; 2011-12-04 at 08:38 AM. Reason: spelling

  10. #10
    I know many people that are enjoying running LFR multiple times as to not be bored. It is fun to do some of the fights since you can treat them as patchwerk style fights and avoid boss abilities and just zerg. Some people actually do play this game for more than loot.
    QFT. Had someone who run it the tenth time yesterday, just for fun.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by wg15 View Post
    QFT. Had someone who run it the tenth time yesterday, just for fun.
    In 5 weeks will they be running it 10 times just for fun?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lykoris View Post
    I wish there was more trash or adventuring in the raid though. Like Ulduar had pretty stuff to look at.
    It's not as bad as Trial of the Crusader though lol.
    Why do people want more trash and more walking? It requires zero skill to do either of these things.
    ToC was good by removing those 2 useless components, Karazhan is annoying as hell.

  13. #13
    You get to raid twice on the same toon in the same raid and one gives you freebie loot for 30 minutes of doing almost nothing. How many times should blizzard let ppl walk in and loot like that a week? If anything the rewards for this joke of a raid format is way to high. I have done it a few times on different classes and roles and each time 2 to 6 ppl are afk or not in the room when we pull 1/2 the group doesnt know what they are doing and its still insanely easy. The bosses do less dmg per attack then they do to the 10 man version so adding 3 to 4 more healers and a grand total of 15 more ppl makes the boss do less the only thing that is some what increased is the life pools of the bosses but rarely or very little on the adds. Surprise surprise LFR has been exploited to hell and back and thats just the tip of the iceburg of all of its issues. Not a bad idea on paper but in practice its a horrible system.

    ---------- Post added 2011-12-04 at 12:05 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
    Why do people want more trash and more walking? It requires zero skill to do either of these things.
    ToC was good by removing those 2 useless components, Karazhan is annoying as hell.
    Ppl dont like zoning and and just rapidly looting, or most dont atleast. Some ppl enjoy the different trash pulls and slight down time or change of pace sometimes faster sometimes slower that trash allows you. If we were just going to do boss only runs why dont we just hand out loot loto style scratcher tickets you scratch your 8 and see if you won anything. Im not saying that raids need to go on forever or have a MC style trash system, but the last 2 raids have been pretty bad. for the most part its been 5 minutes of trash then a boss rinse and repeat Shannox was the only exception and DS is all rapid boss to boss jumps, the only thing that slows anythign down there is ridding on drakes.
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  14. #14
    Did anyone try to 5men (or even less) the current LFR bosses?

  15. #15
    I did it 3 times on my mage and 2 times on my warlock (both 382+) to get used to the new raid specs in a raid situation. This is the first week and I won't be going back next week more than once.

    I agree with OP. The last boss of each half should have a chance a mote of darkness for incentive IMO, maybe even a 3 day lockout based on when the player does it instead of the week instead? Idk, something needs to change to make better players carry the un-enchanted/gemmed 377 crafted pvp gear people through.
    Last edited by Obsession; 2011-12-04 at 01:28 PM.

  16. #16
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    LFR is extremely nice to get raiding experience on your alts. I've completed multiple LFR runs for this reason alone, to ace my alts in a raiding environment. And whenever I have to go a new spec, a drastic change in a class that forces a new rotation, etc, LFR will be the first place I will try it out. Always. Even when fully decked in HM gear, LFR will be the place for me to try new stuff out. And I really don't think I'm alone on this.
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  17. #17
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    One thing we have discivered with LFR, is that to some people who struggleot understand a boss before having seen it, the "basic" versions in LFR give them some visual prespective of the bosses beforehand. this certainly proved the case in our wednesday raid with 8/10 people having done LFR before we went in, we had 0 problems with 1st 4 bosses, However as soon as we got to ultraxion, we had people struggling over the "i'v never seen that button before" mechanic xD
    With regards to gear, yea thats a valid problem really, lets face it the fun factor will wear off eventually. maybe in the future when this is a case we might see something new added to make people want to run it (maybe something like "you will recieve a geode bag for clearing the 4 bosses in LFR" its something small and only a small chanse at epic gems, However those who really want to farm them, it gives them a way to do it without them becoming "too" common).

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Obsession View Post
    Idk, something needs to change to make better players carry the un-enchanted/gemmed 377 crafted pvp gear people through.
    Heh, I thought that's what votekick was for to boot the hell out of the pvp gear people?

    ---------- Post added 2011-12-04 at 09:31 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by chunkycarl View Post
    One thing we have discivered with LFR, is that to some people who struggleot understand a boss before having seen it, the "basic" versions in LFR give them some visual prespective of the bosses beforehand. this certainly proved the case in our wednesday raid with 8/10 people having done LFR before we went in, we had 0 problems with 1st 4 bosses, However as soon as we got to ultraxion, we had people struggling over the "i'v never seen that button before" mechanic xD
    With regards to gear, yea thats a valid problem really, lets face it the fun factor will wear off eventually. maybe in the future when this is a case we might see something new added to make people want to run it (maybe something like "you will recieve a geode bag for clearing the 4 bosses in LFR" its something small and only a small chanse at epic gems, However those who really want to farm them, it gives them a way to do it without them becoming "too" common).
    I'm not trying to be rude, I'm really not but if people have problems with a boss that puts a button on their screen they are probably the ones who LFR is designed for.

  19. #19
    let me get this straight... you're saying the problem with LFR is that when someone is done getting gear from there they won't go back? how is that different from any other thing in the game?

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Nekrabyte View Post
    let me get this straight... you're saying the problem with LFR is that when someone is done getting gear from there they won't go back? how is that different from any other thing in the game?
    I'm going to assume this is from a gear standpoint?

    a.) When people are done with 5-mans (for gear) they don't go back. They cleared FL every week and didn't have to.
    b.) When people are full BiS from current raid content they go back with intentions of getting the rest of the guild full BiS.

    c.) When people are saved to LFR why bother going back if you cannot get anything? Yes I understand the comment of "for fun", the "fun" won't be there for long.
    d.) When people are better geared than LFR content why bother going in at all?

    Me for example? I didn't step foot into LFR for any reason other than to try and get my 4pc, which my guild defaulted to me on normal. The only reason I even did that was because 4pc is just too good even from a low ilvl standpoint.

    The only thing that will keep LFR "fresh" is people going in with friends/random strangers and trying to top the meters for epeen.

    EDIT: Oh, and before anyone says "you play for gear, I play for fun", sorry but any MMO is nothing more than a gear game. It's a progression path and as a raider, raiding is the only thing I do end-game since PvP doesn't interest me unless I'm extremely bored. =D
    Last edited by alturic; 2011-12-04 at 03:02 PM.

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