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  1. #81
    The Insane smrund's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacien View Post
    Except he's not really a "fat-cat", in the usual sense of the term. He's a lobbyist, but he's also an activist. He's a very powerful defender of the taxpayer like you and me.
    Oh please. This guy doesn't represent me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    People in cars cause accidents. Accidents in cars cause people.
    Sometimes life gives you lemons, other times life gives you boobies. Life is always better with more boobies.
    Blizzard removed my subscription from WoD's features, it'll be added sometime later.
    And thus I give you: MALE contraception!

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Dacien View Post
    Except he's not really a "fat-cat", in the usual sense of the term. He's a lobbyist, but he's also an activist. He's a very powerful defender of the taxpayer like you and me.
    He's not defending me. He's defending his ideology's interests.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    People keep claiming we spend on defense for the rest of the world.

    Never quite sure how they figured that one.
    Well either they mean that because the US has troops stationed in nations like Germany, that it provides safety for the germans with US taxpayer money.

    Or that the US pays an disproportional amount of money in Nato?

  4. #84
    Fluffy Kitten Dacien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    He's not defending me. He's defending his ideology's interests.
    Well I know you're a proponent of giving government more of your money, and having other people give government more of their money, but a lot of people think the problem is spending, not revenue.

    And I'll be frank with you, Wells. If I thought for a second that anyone in government gave one shit about us, just one single shit, I might be on board with you. As it is, government hijacks whatever cause is popular, but really doesn't care. Right now it's environmentalism.
    Last edited by Dacien; 2011-11-23 at 09:58 PM.

  5. #85
    The Insane smrund's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacien View Post
    Well I know you're a proponent of giving government more of your money, and having other people give government more of their money, but a lot of people think the problem is spending, not revenue.
    A lot of people think a lot of things. I think spending IS one of the problems, but we have a huge debt to get out of and cutting taxes is NOT helping with that. We need to raise revenue AND cut spending. We can do BOTH of these things and we'll get out of debt a lot easier and faster if we do rather than only doing one or the other.
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    People in cars cause accidents. Accidents in cars cause people.
    Sometimes life gives you lemons, other times life gives you boobies. Life is always better with more boobies.
    Blizzard removed my subscription from WoD's features, it'll be added sometime later.
    And thus I give you: MALE contraception!

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Diurdi View Post
    Well either they mean that because the US has troops stationed in nations like Germany, that it provides safety for the germans with US taxpayer money.

    Or that the US pays an disproportional amount of money in Nato?
    yeah but does our base in Germany serve any purpose other than our interests?

    And yeah, we pay more into NATO but let's be honest, its our pet project, just a hold over from the Cold War and the Warshaw Pact.

    What has our military expenditures done for Europe though? I mean you could pretty easily argue our adventures have made things worse for them.

  7. #87
    Ribbon Guru Simca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacien View Post
    Well I know you're a proponent of giving government more of your money, and having other people give government more of their money, but a lot of people think the problem is spending, not revenue.
    The problem is obviously both.

    The fastest way to lower the national debt would be to significantly cut spending while moderately increasing taxes. That's a no-brainer. The fastest way to drain a bottle of water that has one hole in it is to make another hole.

    Obviously though raising taxes could hurt the economy potentially, so I'd personally do something like:

    Short-term: Stabilize economy through any means possible and prevent government shutdowns purely by cuts to all areas
    Mid-term: Increase taxes moderately and cut spending significantly
    Long-term: Lower taxes significantly (to below original levels even to match the reduced spending)
    Last edited by Simca; 2011-11-23 at 10:02 PM.
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  8. #88
    Fluffy Kitten Dacien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simca View Post
    The problem is obviously both.

    The fastest way to lower the national debt would be to significantly cut spending while moderately increasing taxes. That's a no-brainer. The fastest way to drain a bottle of water that has one hole in it is to make another hole.
    Then once we're afloat again, taxes will go back down to more reasonable levels? No, government will have acclimated to a higher revenue stream by that point.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Dacien View Post
    Then once we're afloat again, taxes will go back down to more reasonable levels? No, government will have acclimated to a higher revenue stream by that point.
    Taxes have been going down for 30 years....

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    You know jack about the US economy. All you talk about is hypothetical extremist economic systems, you lack any sort of historical economic understanding and twist everything that doesn't agree with your personal interpretation to make you look right.
    Why are you suddenly so aggressive?

    I'm not talking about any hypothetical extreme's anymore than anyone else is. I mean, is a balanced budget something extreme? Well in today's world of Keynesian's and MMT's it probably is.

    Extreme is what the US govt is doing, or the EU govts. Furthermore I actually have formal education in Economics unlike you.


    Quote Originally Posted by smrund
    I can't move to Finland because I live in a country where I'm over-worked, under-paid, and poorly educated. Why don't YOU move here and see how you like a system that provides you none of the amenities your armchair-economics rely on?
    Lots of anger again. And if you're poorly educated maybe you should get educated on economics before you claim I'm wrong without backing up your claims.

  11. #91
    The Patient Quackie's Avatar
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    /facepalm @ politics on this site.

    Oh and the Democrats have never been the party to support the Military.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Taxes have been going down for 30 years....
    Can you show me a graph on that please? Not the top marginal rates because they don't tell us much. Just curious.

  13. #93
    The Insane smrund's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacien View Post
    Then once we're afloat again, taxes will go back down to more reasonable levels? No, government will have acclimated to a higher revenue stream by that point.
    That depends entirely on who you elect. You still get to vote for your representatives, just like I get to vote for mine(you and I actually vote on the same senators!).

    Arguing that we shouldn't do X because of what MIGHT happen is a poor argument.
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    People in cars cause accidents. Accidents in cars cause people.
    Sometimes life gives you lemons, other times life gives you boobies. Life is always better with more boobies.
    Blizzard removed my subscription from WoD's features, it'll be added sometime later.
    And thus I give you: MALE contraception!

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Quackie View Post
    /facepalm @ politics on this site.

    Oh and the Democrats have never been the party to support the Military.
    Do go on.....

  15. #95
    Fluffy Kitten Dacien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Taxes have been going down for 30 years....
    Sorry, I'm projecting California's "temporary tax hikes" to the Federal Level.

  16. #96
    Bloodsail Admiral FearXI's Avatar
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    Yes we do spend too much on military and it needs to be trimmed.
    Also I am a Republican. Just because we want bigger military budget doesn't mean we'd over look the country.
    What good is a country that has a great military but a poor and broken population?
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  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Diurdi View Post
    Can you show me a graph on that please? Not the top marginal rates because they don't tell us much. Just curious.


    There's ups and downs, but the trend is downward. Its important to note the start date as well, as that was a major turning point in american politics.

  18. #98
    The Insane smrund's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diurdi View Post
    Why are you suddenly so aggressive?
    Because I'm not one of those sit-back-and-take-it democrats. And I'm tired of listening to your same crap on every single political topic in this forum.

    I'm not talking about any hypothetical extreme's anymore than anyone else is. I mean, is a balanced budget something extreme? Well in today's world of Keynesian's and MMT's it probably is.
    Except that's not what you talk about. You talk about gutting the government and entirealy redoing our system of governance.

    Extreme is what the US govt is doing, or the EU govts. Furthermore I actually have formal education in Economics unlike you.
    And I have a formal education in politics so you can bite me, but here's the shocker: being educated on a subject does NOT give you the right answers!

    Lots of anger again. And if you're poorly educated maybe you should get educated on economics before you claim I'm wrong without backing up your claims.
    Your wrong because your perspective is wrong. Because you have "all the comforts" while demanding that people shouldn't have them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    People in cars cause accidents. Accidents in cars cause people.
    Sometimes life gives you lemons, other times life gives you boobies. Life is always better with more boobies.
    Blizzard removed my subscription from WoD's features, it'll be added sometime later.
    And thus I give you: MALE contraception!

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    There's ups and downs, but the trend is downward. Its important to note the start date as well, as that was a major turning point in american politics.
    This is income tax though? Anyway nice graph, thx.

  20. #100
    The Patient Quackie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by absynthe7 View Post
    Actually, the rhetoric of Republicans on economics doesn't match anything that has ever worked, and flies in the face of all available evidence. Once upon a time, Republicans believed in things like "expertise". But when Milton Friedman is considered way too left-wing for your party, you have abandoned all pretense of rational thought.
    Actually, the Democrats have been nothing short of a train wreck when it comes to economics. Just look at the California budget for a great example.

    Or you could take a look at the one-sided belief that Clinton left us with a 'stockpile of cash' when in reality all he did was reduce the military by 30% and fail to deal with Al Qaeda as they blew up things like the Khobar Towers and the USS Cole. Not to mention the two US Embassies in Africa.

    Then Clinton leaves office with Bush coming in to face a war on terror with a reduced military.

    Yeah, the Democrats have done a great job. /facepalm

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