Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst
1
2
3
LastLast
  1. #21
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultima View Post
    While true and well said in some places, this doesn't work in the context the poster I quoted.

    He wants talents that are obvious Shadow talents that are obvious DPS increase talents.
    Well, to be fair, 2 of the 6 lines are full of dps increasing talents. So they ARE there and they ARE obvious increases.

    The priest tree goes like this:
    Incoming damage reduction
    Movement speed increase
    Damage/healing increase
    Survivability increase
    Damage/healing increase
    Group utility

    If the person you quoted wants that to change, he'll have to get on to the official forums and tell it to Blizzard. He might even get his way and have one of his talents moved to the other tier, so he can get both. As such, my post remains valid, given the context I quoted you in. Things can and will change, but only if he does it right and people agree with him. Also, announcing NOW that he's quitting, over something that is not yet final, really is stupid :-p

  2. #22
    In all fairness, they're taking away the niche of the game.
    People want choices. Even if in current format those choices are pretty straightforward and result in cookie cutter builds the choice is there.

    Even with the 6 tiers and 3 choices per tier you'll still be seeing the same options picked over and over again so in the end what will it have done to remove cookie cutters?

    Nothing

    Just my two cents

  3. #23
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Karei View Post
    Even with the 6 tiers and 3 choices per tier you'll still be seeing the same options picked over and over again so in the end what will it have done to remove cookie cutters?
    Cookie cutter specs are "the best for 99% of the fights". With the current talents, for any class, that is not the case. Let's talk pure dps increase in a raid-setting for now. There are two rows to choose from, what is the best of the following?
    1. 6% chance on MF for free and instant MB vs 30 sec cooldown aoe damage AND healing orb vs 2 minute cooldown damage increase.
    2. Damage increase ONLY below a % of hp vs 2 minute cooldown casting speed increase and mana cost reduction vs MB cooldown change.

    For fights with loads of adds at the same time, I would pick the Divine Star. For fights with just a boss to kill, Archangel can be good. For fights with a single add here and there, the proc from FDCL can be the killing blow if lucky with timing. But for single-boss fights with lots of raid-damage, the Star might be the overall best choice, due to the healing provided. On the other hand, combined with Vampiric Dominance and Power Infusion, Archangel could turn out to do more healing (and damage) overall. So how do you choose?
    Hero/Blood/whatever is often used during burn phases. That's been during the less-than-30%-hp part of the fight for a lot of bosses. Combine the casting speed increase AND mana cost reduction of Power Infusion, plus the fact that you can use it 2-3 times per fight, and we have a clear winner here. But ToF is frekkin awesome when you have loads of adds that just need to die fast. Mind Searing all of them and then getting extra damage as they get below 25%, that's a huge dps increase, as well as on the boss. But if you only have a few adds and they still need to die fast, then you don't have time to dot them up. You Mind Spike them. Getting a MB cooldown reduction is superb in that situation, especially with the new orb cost of MB. That talent may say the day.

    Those are just some quickly made up situations where each damage increasing talent may shine. Yes, eventually one will pop up as being overall better, but the other talents are REALLY personal choice, as it stands right now. I've given my reasons for each choice in the earlier post. Others have made theirs. Mine is not any better or worse, because they essentially all do the same: reduce incoming damage, increase movement speed/damage/healing/survivability or give some fun stuff to assist other party/raid members.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Karei View Post
    In all fairness, they're taking away the niche of the game.
    People want choices. Even if in current format those choices are pretty straightforward and result in cookie cutter builds the choice is there.

    Even with the 6 tiers and 3 choices per tier you'll still be seeing the same options picked over and over again so in the end what will it have done to remove cookie cutters?

    Nothing

    Just my two cents
    You are predicting something you don't have a clue about.
    any sane person can see that the new talent tree system is an improvement.

    i agree with blizzard on this thing.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Quillerjr View Post
    Honestly, the talent tree for shadow is complete *&^% at the moment. Why would they put two shadowpriest abilities (From Darkness Comes Light and Archangel) on the same &^&*%^& line?
    They seem obvious to me with no interesting choices at all for PvE shadow. Most of the talents feel like they are designed for healers imo.
    Overall I like the new talent design, but I wish it was more interesting for pve shadow.
    Last edited by UunaPriest; 2011-11-23 at 09:55 PM.

  6. #26
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirdamor View Post
    any sane person can see that the new talent tree system is an improvement.
    That's exactly why so many people complain. Not kidding here, too many "stupid" people playing a game they want to be good at, but can't. Speaking for myself, I will miss the obvious increasers that we have now. Using just the first tier talents of all 3 specs, we have extra absorption on shields, increased damage/healing, reduced mana cost, reduced casting time and extra haste. Where will we be getting all that from with MoP? The answer was something like "you may get it as a passive bonus", but it's not a promise. So I will feel nerfed for a while. But then I will adjust, like I've done with the previous changes. And then I'll like it a lot more. I can see the potential of this change.

  7. #27
    Why to all specs get the same list of talents, it's pretty lazy if you ask me and limits choice way more then the system we have at the moment.

    For me tiers 1 through 4 are all useless talents that I will be forced to chose one from each, Tier 5 imo is the only tier with real choice for a disc priest ( throughput below 25% vs haste cooldown vs healing mechanic ) all of which are decent talents, the last tier has two healing cooldowns and a damage / healing mechanic.

    Blizz needs to get off their ass and start actually working, the talent trees need useful talents that are dedicated to each tree not a jumble mix of multi function talents.

  8. #28
    Just based on talents we've (for the most part) never seen before I would be rolling forth in the Pandalands with as a Raider only (No PvP-ing here), my Primary Shadow and Disc Off specs I would choose:

    Shadow:
    15: Void Tentacles. It sounds like fun :3
    30: Body and Soul. Not much choice here but at least I could use a GCD and GTFO the fire quickly
    45: Either FD,CL or Archangel gonna need to see how thing work out
    60: Final Prayer. One less button to worry about
    75:To use Firelands for examples: Twist of Fate on fights like Beth'tilac and Rhyolith where the big burns are needed at the end of the fights and Power Infusion for fight like Baleroc and Majordomo where I just want the increased Dps at several different points.
    90:Vampric Dominance. Kinda wins by default thou using Void Shift just to kill that damn Mage in the raid is just too tempting


    Disc:
    15: Void Tentacles :3
    30: Body and Soul. As a disc healer who uses shields, why not?
    45: Divine Star. I really just don't like how the other talents feel for disc
    60: Final Prayer. Wasn't really feeling the others
    75: Serendipity. Appears to hold the more bang for my buck
    90: Vow of Unity Mostly for tank healing but Void shift could be used for a decent Tank CD if necessary (Or killing Mages). Vampric Dominance is a solid raid healing talent talent.


    But for the most part (and I realise that this may be off topic), and I can't stress this enough: Its WAY WAY WAYYYYYYYYYYY too early to be making major decisions about anything in 5.0 when 4.3 hasn't even graced us with its presence.

  9. #29
    People trying to find a cookie-cutter spec are totally missing the point. You do realize you can switch spec between encounters?

  10. #30
    Herald of the Titans Ynna's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    2,819
    Quote Originally Posted by Vorend View Post
    People trying to find a cookie-cutter spec are totally missing the point. You do realize you can switch spec between encounters?
    I wasn't actually sure on that, but it won't change too much. I'd probably end up with a "basic" loadout, that I'd change whenever needed. I favor a flexible raid healing style, so a lot of my changes would end up the same, no matter the encounter.
    Resurrected Holy Priest

  11. #31
    Fluffy Kitten Dyra's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Fording the Ox
    Posts
    1,641
    Hmmmmmmm.....

    15: (Both) Void Tendrils.

    I imagine will see the most usage inside a dungeon/raid. Tendrils -> Tank rush in and get aggro -> Mind Sear on Tank (if Shadow) -> Happy tank and happy you. But Psyfiend looks like fun. Play kite around the fiend and watch nobody be able to rush you for 10 seconds. Massive range to play with too. Never been the biggest fan of Psychic Scream. *shrug* It's good for making things run away from you and with a reasonably short cooldown but still, meh.

    30: (Both) Body and Soul.

    I was one of the nay sayers when this talent was 1st announced for the Holy tree. Now I wouldn't know how to live without it. And with 5.0 I can use in any spec!!! Best talent point ever. Phantasm only if there's movement impairing effects in as part of a raid mechanic. Path of the Devout for max level solo grinding (if they can't reach you to hit you then Levitate will never drop off :3) and I guess for raids where there is a Disc Priest and/or not much raid damage and/or lots and lots of movement involved.

    45: (Shadow) From Darkness, Comes Light (Healing) Divine Star

    While atm there is no way in the 5.0 Holy spec to gain access to the Evangelism mechanics, and thus no way for the Archangel talent to be of any use, I have faith in Blizzard that this will be made right. These are my preferred options, but all 3 could very well see usage on a per fight basis no matter what spec I am playing at that particular moment.

    Healing: Archangel would see use on predictable timed moderate/heavy damage, Divine Star on any raid healing encounter where there is stacking (Sanctuary/Power Word: Barrier + Divine Star + PoH spamming = sheer WIN) and From Darkness, Comes Light seems pretty much the Tank healing priest's go to of choice for consistant damage.
    Shadow: Archangel we have now, but I think with 5.0 would maybe be of more use for singular adds that have a large health pool and/or need to die quickly. Divine Star for lots of little mobs. Place the tendrils, fire off the star, target the tank and sear the suckers. From Darkness, Comes Light would be ideal for solitary boss encounters and for those (i.e. me) who like procs over set cooldowns.

    60: (Both) Desperate Prayer

    But only if it doesn't remove Shadowform. Angelic Bulwark seems peculiarly suited to Disc PvP and soloing since to both Holy and Shadow +30% of not alot, is still not alot.... Also Angelic Bulwark could be a peace offering for Discipline Priests if 5.0 does mean Binding Heal is Holy only. If Deperate Prayer does remove Shadowform, or there is an encounter with especially heavy raid damage the Final Prayer talent is my choice.

    75: (Both) Power Infusion

    But as with the level 45 talents all 3 could see use regardless of spec on a per fight basis.
    Healing: Twist of Fate for any encounter with heavy damage and also for early progress. Power Infusion for on cooldown use, and for timing with incoming heavy damage phases. Serendipity for predictable incoming damage (i.e. flash a target to full and use the Serendipity effect where needed). Though I think I'll only really have Serendipity if tank healing and I can't be bothered to watch for the Power Infusion cooldown timer.
    Shadow: Twist of Fate is for progressing/beating the enrage/quickly finishing the boss before sub-X% mechanics wipe the raid. Serendipity for quick nuking of adds and Power Infusion for everything else .

    90: (Both) Vampiric Dominance

    Unless there is very infrequent raid damage or very low damage or very few targets taking raid damage. Then Void Shift for fights where the tank takes heavy damage (part of me cannot wait to save the day twice with Guardian Spirit :P). Vow of Unity I imagine will get used more for the damage split as the beacon effect will probably just be used to mitigate the damage. It would work well with Serendipity I guess with a Binding Heal -> Binding Heal -> Greater Heal combo, for Shadow a Dispersion would work. I imagine it has as many uses as Hand of Sacrifice does in current content :3.
    Last edited by Dyra; 2011-11-25 at 04:51 PM.

    A reader lives a thousand lives before he dies. The man who never reads lives only one.

  12. #32
    As disc: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/mis...ator#Xb!001202

    1: Void tendrils, just something to get away from enemies I aggro'd without making shit hit the fan.
    2: Body and soul (PVE here), path of the devout will be more of a solo/convenience thing imo.
    3: Divine star, I am a sucker for boomerang type attacks.
    4: Hard time choosing, will switch depending on encounter
    5: Twist of fate, for those "Save your ass" moments
    6: Vampiric dominance if it applies to shields, if not, vow of unity (Which will probably be used with angelic bulwark). Void shift looks awesome though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Henry Ford
    Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably why few engage in it.
    This explains a lot.

  13. #33
    Deleted
    I am wondering how Final Prayer and Vow of Unity could work together. Maybe for AoEing mages/locks who get hit for lots of small hits at once?

    Otherwise I think it will depend on the role. For an AoE healing oriented spec, Vampiric Dominance seems amazing. For tank healing probably Vow or Void Shift. I foresee a lot of respeccing between fights!


    Can't wait for Disc to get Body & Soul tho, that is super sexy.

  14. #34
    I don't know how I'll spend them, the talents are far from final.
    Quote Originally Posted by Precursor View Post
    "Fall of therzane....." ....um what? if that woman fell , god help us it will be the second cataclysm
    Words that lots of people don't seem to know the definition of:
    "Troll", "Rehash", "Casual", "Dead", "Dying", "Exploit".

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Vook View Post
    I don't know how I'll spend them, the talents are far from final.
    But conjecture and speculation!!!

    I concur with Vook While I think a number of us have opinions, its good to keep an eye on them and mull the theory of the talent choices around in our heads. Delving too much into "X is better because of Y" could really be for naught as we have no idea how the final trees will look (or the synergies with other classes or the encounters). Also, I see talent choices far less important on an overall or macro level in MOP, and will be more important to evaluate each talent in an encounter by encounter basis... especially since we can change them out like glyphs. (or at least, that is the current "plan")

    Analysis this early without a grain of salt is potentially short sighted.

  16. #36
    Yeah, it really annoys me the amount of threads there are whining about the talent trees...MMO-C really should have put a giant red text saying "THESE TALENTS ARE PRE-ALPHA AND ARE HIGHLY LIKELY TO CHANGE BEFORE RELEASE" and put a similar warning on the New Thread page. (to make people think before posting a QQ thread about new talents)

    I mean, yeah it's fun to play around with the talent calculator, but it's pointless seeing as the talents are most definitely going to change before release.
    Quote Originally Posted by Precursor View Post
    "Fall of therzane....." ....um what? if that woman fell , god help us it will be the second cataclysm
    Words that lots of people don't seem to know the definition of:
    "Troll", "Rehash", "Casual", "Dead", "Dying", "Exploit".

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Ambrodel View Post
    That's exactly why so many people complain. Not kidding here, too many "stupid" people playing a game they want to be good at
    Thanks for the sig material. I needed a fresh one.

    Tier 1: CC - Probably Psychic Scream, just because I can use it more frequently. I wonder if the Glyph may become baseline, or if it will stay.
    Tier 2: Movement - Body and Soul, Phantasm for PvP.
    Tier 3: Primary Role - Divine Star, but if I'm tank healing, From Darkness Comes Light might be nice.
    Tier 4: Survivability - Desperate Prayer. It's just too awesome. And controllable, unlike the shorter cooldown on Final Prayer. However, Angelic Bulwark isn't that much worse for Holy PvP than it is for Discipline.
    Tier 5: Augments - Raid Healing will probably like Twist of Fate, because that is never overheal, but if I feel the need for cooldowns Power Infusion. But then again, tank healing without need of a cooldown, I may want Serendipity to go with From Darkness, Comes Light. This is the tier I struggle with
    Tier 6: Concept - Vampiric Dominance as a raid healer is quite easily seen there. Vow of Unity, however, looks better for Tank Healing Holy than it does Discipline, as long as Holy can keep Renew rolling on itself as well. Compared to these two, Lay on Hands just doesn't really have the same effect. I dunno.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
    Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
    Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

  18. #38
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/mis...ator#XZ!001222

    Level 15: Void Tendrils - Obviously as PvE I don't really need a fear, but this would be really handy for getting adds off of me without fearing them across the room.

    Level 30: Body and Soul - Love this talent too much to give it up! Really like being able to help out other players too by giving them a boost.

    Level 45: Divine Star - Looks awesome, isn't based on RNG like Surge of Light. I do like SoL but having to choose between Divine Star and SoL, I choose Divine Star!

    Level 60: Final Prayer - I actually am having a hard time choosing between this and Desperate Prayer. On the one hand I like Final prayer being passive and not having another button to click to save my butt, but on the other hand I don't know how effective Final Prayer actually is and I know for a fact Desperate Prayer has saved me countless times. I'll probably try out Final Prayer and see how it is.

    Level 75: Serendipity - Love love love this talent as holy, it's like my bread and butter. Never gonna give it up!

    Level 90: Vampiric Dominance - Passive AoE heals = awesome. As holy I already have 1 tank CD (Guardian Spirit) but I could see having two tank CD's being really OP. This level I will probably customize based on the encounter, but by default I will go with Vampiric Dominance.

  19. #39
    This type of talent system is in my opinion very good move from blizzard. When you get new talent, you choose one that you think is good. Then you play for a few levels and if it doesn't suit you, changing is easy without meddling with other chosen talents.
    I explained this system to someone who doesn't play video games at all and he thought it was lot better than system we use now. If total novice sees this beneficial, blizzard must be doing this right.
    People who whine about this system may be the type who are terrible at making their own choices. They rely on other people with their character development->cookie cutter builds.

  20. #40
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Quillerjr View Post
    Honestly, the talent tree for shadow is complete *&^% at the moment. Why would they put two shadowpriest abilities (From Darkness Comes Light and Archangel) on the same &^&*%^& line?

    Looks like I'm playing Diablo 3 full time
    Because that's the point of them? Do give you tougher choices, and stop cookie cutter builds.

    PvE Shadow

    15: Void Tendrils
    30: Body and Soul
    45: Will depend on the fight.
    60: Desperate Prayer
    75: Again, this will depend on the fight, but I can see myself using Power Infusion for the most part. For bosses where we're stuck on the last phases of the fight, I'll choose Twist of Fate. Might end up as an overall DPS loss, but I'll have more damage on the phase we're struggling at, which is more important.
    90: Vampiric Dominance

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •