Your first impressions? E-sport viable?

[jvbastel]

E-sports are the single most stupid thing ever.

It isn't sport.

'Sport is all forms of physical activity which, through casual or organised participation, aim to use, maintain or improve physical fitness'

last time I checked, you don't train to run a marathon in under 2 hours by playing an E-Sport.

Sport implies an athlete, no one who sits in a chair looking at a screen, pressing buttons in the right order in the right time is an athlete.

Chess is a recognized sport of the International Olympic Committee, and international chess competition is sanctioned by the FIDE (Fédération Internationale des Échecs or World Chess Federation).

[Fitzbert]

Anyway, I don't think MMOs lend themselves to spectator eSports in the same way that Starcraft II, team deathmatch FPS titles (Halo, COD) and others like League of Legends do. WoW arena is particularly uninteresting. It isn't exciting to watch and it can have the best commentary in the world and it won't save it. So no, I don't think SWTOR will be esports viable. It doubt it's even on their minds.

EDIT: Heh. Dude got pwned three times in rabid succession.

[Mister K]

Anyway, I don't think MMOs lend themselves to spectator eSports in the same way that Starcraft II, team deathmatch FPS titles (Halo, COD) and others like League of Legends do. WoW arena is particularly uninteresting. It isn't exciting to watch and it can have the best commentary in the world and it won't save it. So no, I don't think SWTOR will be esports viable. It doubt it's even on their minds.

Yeah, I don't think its quite there yet. Although personally I don't mind watching Arena matches (when I played WoW) for the general public, it's like WTF?

[jvbastel]

I think it's possible for mmorpg's to be viable e-sports, but the game needs to be built around it.
I believe SWTOR pvp will be fun, but I can't see it ever become a real e-sport. And that's totally fine. It doesn't need to be.

The only mmo in the near future that's really being built with e-sports in mind is GW2, I'm curious how it will turn out.

[Fitzbert]

WoW Arena requires a lot of game knowledge to enjoy, y'know? But I mean.. if you have a really good play-by-play commentator for say Starcraft II, you can tell when something amazing happens and can recognise it. I think the entry level for knowledge of Starcraft II is the same as that of football/soccer. Two teams, first one to beat his opponent with either strategy (everyone knows how chess works on a base level) or countering their moves (like most two-player sports) wins. That's easy. But with WoW Arena, you have at least three people per team to watch and it gets really confusing to the average viewer because there might be the same class on both sides so.. who's who? It doesn't make for pleasant viewing.

---------- Post added 2011-11-23 at 01:23 PM ----------

I think it's possible for mmorpg's to be viable e-sports, but the game needs to be built around it.
I believe SWTOR pvp will be fun, but I can't see it ever become a real e-sport. And that's totally fine. It doesn't need to be.

The only mmo in the near future that's really being built with e-sports in mind is GW2, I'm curious how it will turn out.

I see your Guild Wars 2 and raise you Firefall.

[Mister K]

I think it's possible for mmorpg's to be viable e-sports, but the game needs to be built around it.
I believe SWTOR pvp will be fun, but I can't see it ever become a real e-sport. And that's totally fine. It doesn't need to be.

Exactly, but who knows a year down the line how it all turns out ^^

[jvbastel]

I see your Guild Wars 2 and raise you Firefall.

Haven't really been following Firefall, isn't it an mmofps?

[Styxz]

Sorry but, how is Rift a failure?

I don't play it persoanlly, but I was under the impression it has quite the following. If it's a failure because there aren't 10 million subs then WoW "failed" until mid Wotlk (about 36 months ago).

If you hold any game to such standards its going to be a "fail."

That said, not many are lobbying for arena in this game. It's pretty much concensus that arena hasn't worked as well as it should in WoW. I doubt we'll se it for a while yet, if ever.

[Fitzbert]

You certainly can play in FPS, but due to the high mobility focus of the game you're better off in third person.

But the fact that it's a shooter immediately makes it more tournament/eSports viable.

[Deleted]

MMO's and E-sport doesn't go well together from my experience..

And no, I don't think GW2 will do it(Was GW1 even a e-sport?), perhaps Firefall..But IMO not likely. Maybe a PvP-Only MMO? But then why make it a MMO, lulz
+ Not that many people liked/watched WoW when it was a E-sport.

[Hulari]

It's quite simple. In my opinion:

Make abilities work differently in PvP than they do in PvE. Balancing issues will be a lot easier, and PvP could be competitive. Until an MMO comes out and does this properly I don't think e-sport PvP will be properly viable or truly balanced.

[Bolson13]

I also believe that E-sports and RPG cannot be mixed. One side is Esports where every little thing has to be balanced. The other side is your character which you try to min/max (trying to unbalance yourself against all the other players/PVE content basically) as best as you can through class/gear/enchants/race/talents/gems and what have you.


There should be a starting point to balance from else there are too many variables. Say a specific set of gear that you can only use in this ranked BG/arena and no enchants/gems for it. Unfortunately that defeats the point of an RPG again.

Another thing I would like to see is that a team can set up matches against other teams. Being able to match against a specific team and set certain match rules like game lenght, points to win etc. Maybe not even for rank but just for practise matches.

Then the rock paper scissors effect of arena (or small scale PVP). Should all classes have abilities to counter other classes main abilities? A warrior can't beat a frostmage if he doesn't have enough abilities to catch him. So you add abilities to that warrior making him possible to catch the mage. Then the paladin player comes and wants the same thing since he also doesn't have a closer. So 2 problems there, 1. the classes will start to look the same. 2 adding extra spells will have effects on the PVE side of the game obviously.


So my question is, wouldn't it for instance not be better to make a stand alone game of say WoW purely for PVP? Same engine and fighting style (with a spellbar I mean). No levelling or fancy zones but maybe some more classes?

[Winfernal]

E-sports are the single most stupid thing ever.

It isn't sport.

'Sport is all forms of physical activity which, through casual or organised participation, aim to use, maintain or improve physical fitness'

last time I checked, you don't train to run a marathon in under 2 hours by playing an E-Sport.

Sport implies an athlete, no one who sits in a chair looking at a screen, pressing buttons in the right order in the right time is an athlete.

Oh, jolly. That was not a very smart comment, was it? It was not the smartest i've read in a while. Don't respond if you don't have anything to contribute with.

I'm sorry, mods.

Take your own advice. Report, don't respond.

[conscript]

I sincerely hope that they don't try to go E-sport with it. The nerf/buff roller coaster goes in to overdrive when that happens.

Completely agree. Unless they are planning to implement abilities doing two completely separate amounts of damage, healing, etc. just for the purpose of arena, like WoW should have, I really don't feel like going through the constant buff/nerf cycle of WoW because class or spec X is overpowered/underpowered to start this arena season which completely changes their PvE dynamics. May arenas rot and burn in hell forever.

[jvbastel]

Well there have already been some games that did the e-sports thing quite well, GW1 being the most famous one, although wasn't really an mmo, but since the pvp is instanced that doesn't matter

The current model of MMORPGS are not really suited for e-sports, with gear differences being the biggest concern IMO.

[Deleted]

Well there have already been some games that did the e-sports thing quite well, GW1 being the most famous one, although wasn't really an mmo, but since the pvp is instanced that doesn't matter

The current model of MMORPGS are not really suited for e-sports, with gear differences being the biggest concern IMO.

I googled "Guild wars 1 E-sport", and I can't find anything about it? Not saying Guild wars 1 didn't have a e-sport scene, but I can't find it? :/

[Mouni]

As a gamer...even I think E-sports are lame as hell....so just imagine what someone who isn't a gamer thinks about the whole situation.

Whenever I see an E-sports tournament it's always so socially awkward and I feel embarrassed for the people there...so much socialness failure going on at every event...and you have these massive nerds who get massive ego's over being good at a video game...alright man your good at video game 99.99% of people who play only play for fun/relaxing and not to be competitive grats bro.

I never get that "socially awkward lame" feeling from actual sports....but I notice it during any e-sport event.

Maybe it's because e-sports attracts the type of people who don't do well in most fields...but in video games they excel...so when they finally find something they're good in their ego goes on a crazy boost and they turn into douche-bag mcgees.

[Winfernal]

As a gamer...even I think E-sports are lame as hell....so just imagine what someone who isn't a gamer thinks about the whole situation.

Whenever I see an E-sports tournament it's always so socially awkward and I feel embarrassed for the people there...so much socialness failure going on at every event...and you have these massive nerds who get massive ego's over being good at a video game...alright man your good at video game 99.99% of people who play only play for fun/relaxing and not to be competitive grats bro.

I never get that "socially awkward lame" feeling from actual sports....but I notice it during any e-sport event.

Maybe it's because e-sports attracts the type of people who don't do well in most fields...but in video games they excel...so when they finally find something they're good in their ego goes on a crazy boost and they turn into douche-bag mcgees.

League of Legends. Season 2 got a 5 000 000 $ prize in the end. Many major tourneys got between 250-500 000 $ prizes. Yeah, they're some ankward losers. To be honest, i don't think they give a damn about what people like you think about them.

Sure, play for fun. But don't define "fun" for everyone else. Playing for money could also be fun. You are the one here that carries a serious problem with your EGO.

[Deleted]

As a gamer...even I think E-sports are lame as hell....so just imagine what someone who isn't a gamer thinks about the whole situation.

Whenever I see an E-sports tournament it's always so socially awkward and I feel embarrassed for the people there...so much socialness failure going on at every event...and you have these massive nerds who get massive ego's over being good at a video game...alright man your good at video game 99.99% of people who play only play for fun/relaxing and not to be competitive grats bro.

I never get that "socially awkward lame" feeling from actual sports....but I notice it during any e-sport event.

Maybe it's because e-sports attracts the type of people who don't do well in most fields...but in video games they excel...so when they finally find something they're good in their ego goes on a crazy boost and they turn into douche-bag mcgees.

Lol, you are the one being douchey with the stereotyping, and worst of all being illogical - If they are playing at e-sport tournaments that means they are good, which means they are making tons of money playing video games that you play in your spare time making zero money..You are actually paying to do what he gets tons of money for doing.. Maybe I sense jealousy? :]

And lots of e-sport pro's now a days aren't socially awkward..That's like saying every gamer is, according to the old stereotype..Which means you are too?

Just to name one who probably makes more girls than you who is a pro starcraft player: "HuK".

[jvbastel]

I googled "Guild wars 1 E-sport", and I can't find anything about it? Not saying Guild wars 1 didn't have a e-sport scene, but I can't find it? :/

Well the scene was there, but GW1 sold 7 million copies (I think this includes Factions and nightfall) so let's say it had a total of 2-3 mill active accounts at any time, so the scene was pretty small