View Poll Results: What you think of protection in MoP?

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  • I like it very much!

    18 20.22%
  • I really don't know

    33 37.08%
  • I don't like it

    38 42.70%
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  1. #1

    MoP Warrior changes? (mainly prot)

    •Battle Stance no longer restricts which abilities can be used and now only increases damage done by 10%.
    •Defensive Stance no longer restricts which abilities can be used and now only decreases damage taken by 10% and significantly increases threat generation.
    •Berserker Stance no longer restricts which abilities can be used and now only increases damage done by Whirlwind and Cleave by 20%
    Not all that bad but why do blizzard even bother having a berserker stance ? They might aswell change it to a short cd making you doing high amount of burst. having a stance which you only go to during trash is wired. but well I don't really complain about it since already you never really change stances...

    •Heroic Strike's cooldown has been decreased to 1.5 sec, down from 3 sec.
    Cleave might be changed to 1,5 sec aswell or what you think?

    •Charge now generates 20 rage, up from 15, and stuns for 1.5 sec, up from 1 sec. Additionally, it can now always be used in combat
    Because Intercept will be removed I guess this is ideal.

    •Thunder Clap now reduces enemy damage done by 10% instead of increasing the time between their attacks by 20%.
    If I remember correct there was a post about demo just being an annoyig tool that had to be used and blizzard wanted to remove it. so I guess this is reason that thunderclap will have a change.

    •Shield Wall no longer requires Shields.
    •Spell Reflection no longer requires Shields.
    Now I guess lots of you gonna qq about this, because a good warrior was able to pick up shield which unlocked new stuff for him (shield wall shield reflect), but well I guess this is mainly to make pvp a bit easy on new players.

    •Intervene no longer reduces the target's threat
    I'm among the few warriors who use intervene for Threat reduction, not that it's always needed but if you get die during bl and get combat ressed it's nice to be able to intervene the highest on threat after taunting. That will be impossible , Even when I was in offspec I was ready to intervene whoever got to high on threat(if the tank for some reason generated to low amount of threat). But well threat is not that big of a issue but still I like the 10% threat reduction.


    •Shield Slam now generates 10 rage, instead of consuming it.
    •Revenge is now exclusive to Protection and costs no rage but has a 10 sec cooldown, up from 5 sec.
    •Devastate now costs no rage, down from 15, but has a 3 sec cooldown, up from 0.
    So I guess this will mean that we will sit idle half the fight waiting for cds.

    •Shield Block is now exclusive to Protection and has no cooldown, down from 1 minute, but costs 80 rage, up from 0. It also now increases your chance to block by 25% for the next incoming melee attack instead of for the next 10 seconds.
    •Last Stand now has no cooldown, down from 3 minutes, but costs 80 rage, up from 0.
    So while sitting idle for our cds we slowly build up rage on white attacks only + shield slam (not dmg taken), once we have 80+ rage we will just pop either of those depending on fight when it's needed.
    And wtf big nerf on shield block :/ I saw a nerf coming since hitting unhitable on first tear is simply just stupid. but 25% + chance on blocking one attack is just bad.

    I tanked as a warrior since vanilia and now this might start to sound like a qq post, but anyway here I go. I don't really see protection warrior looking fun at all ("then don't play it"), but well the problem is that I want to play proctection warrior but this change on rage/abliities used is just so major and from what I can see nothing good will come out of it.

    My question is have I overlooked something? is there something I haven't mentioned that is changed for the better?

    PS: sorry for my english

  2. #2
    How are they changing block mechanics in MoP? Seems like if it stays the same, Shield Block would be a waste of rage.

    Then again, I don't play anymore, I only go on MMO-champion to see what nerf Blizzard has up their sleeves for Warriors.

  3. #3
    Mechagnome Gritalian's Avatar
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    It's really not that big of a change.

    Your priority abilities are still Devastate, Shield Slam, and Revenge, SS just grants rage instead of cost rage, and now there isn't a reason to spam your Dev key in between SS/Rev as you can only use it every 3.5 seconds.

    The only change really is the use of a defensive ability once 80 rage is gained. Do you want to spend the rage on Shield Block or Last Stand, which will be dependent on your current health situation.

    If you enjoy the Warrior as a tank now, I don't really see any reason why you'd stop... all that has happened is they made Rage a defensive tool.

  4. #4
    I'll try to go over the points you posted and my thoughts. I voted "I don't like it" but I should have put "I really don't know"

    - The stance changes are a good thing. Seems like battle will be single target, prot for tanking and zerker for AE

    - I'm assuming if HS was changed that cleave would be too

    - Charge nothing big here, it was pretty much this anyways and both charge and intercept did the same thing, so removing one is a good idea imo.

    - TClap change is good because it’s one less debuff to keep up (if demo is being removed) but I wonder if they will still have the slow debuff in the game

    - SW/SR, Don't see this as too much of an issue tbh, looks like quality of life change.

    - Intervene, Not a big deal IMO. The only time I use intervene is for mobility reasons, not threat. Example; having to stun a group of sons on heroic rag on the other side of the room that are clumped up near the hammer. Leaping then intervening to a player to get there quick enough for shockwave.

    - Shield Slam, pretty good change not having to wait for rage at the start of the pull.

    - Revenge & devastate, I don't like these too much, the no rage cost is great but it just feels with the cool downs that they are trying to make us more like pally tanks where revenge would be judgment and devastate would be crusader strike (crusader is currently 3s CD and judgment is 8s on live)

    - Shield Block, I'm not sure of this. Since we don't have a 20% dmg reduction CD like all the other tanks this nerf will hit harder in the first tier of raiding since it will be a lot harder to get to the 102.4% cap and this will only mitigate one hit. If they want to bring us in line with other classes then just change it to a 20% CD with the same duration and same CD. However on a progression boss fight rage isn’t really an issue once you have climbed above the dps, especially if you hit the threat cap so you could be spamming this every few seconds, with Dev/SS/Revenge costing no rage and these being core abilities the only things we will spend rage on are HS/cleave, rend, TC, Shockwave, conc, pummel and SB, Last stand. I think we will have much more rage then we are used too even in 5 mans, so this has the potential to be powerful.

    - Last stand, See above for the rage part but I think this is could be decent.

    I think you're forgetting that most of our main rotation abilities now cost no rage and I really think we will have a ton of rage and time to pop extra things even in 5 mans if we don't rage dump it all with HS/Cleave but we won’t know until we get into the beta and these talents are pre alpha build so expect them to change A LOT.

  5. #5
    Its not that i don't like it/like it, it just that theres nothing to look forward to - avatar is the only one that seems to be new. I think they haven't worked on the warrior talents as much as say the droods or warlocks. Very bland. from what i can remember our rotation was pretty much the same prior cata (at least for arms anyway).

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by iPluto View Post
    Its not that i don't like it/like it, it just that theres nothing to look forward to - avatar is the only one that seems to be new. I think they haven't worked on the warrior talents as much as say the droods or warlocks. Very bland. from what i can remember our rotation was pretty much the same prior cata (at least for arms anyway).
    Pretty much this.

    When I first heard the massive redesign for talents I thought it was a great idea. But then when I looked deeper into it all the utility/abilities that would be ideal for tanking ended up being pretty much all the tools I have now :/.

  7. #7
    The poll's not particularly good, because Blizz are looking for feedback from the community not just "I don't like change".

    I think it is best to look at all the tanks when judging ourselves, if there are changes that make life harder for us, I expect there are changes that make life harder for other tanks too. For example the Intervene change, I cannot see the paladin equivalent of a threat drop on their tree, so it is something that is being removed. However, we have retained the ability to rush to the position of another player (and take the next strike) which is something I would hate to lose.

    I see a lot of warriors complaining that BT, MS, Dev all have 3 second CDs now. I don't think it's a coincidence that our main spam moves are like this. It's obvious that we're looking at the design attempt to have a <Something> - [Dev] - <Something> - [Dev], style rotation, rather than <Something> - <Something> - [Dev] - [Dev] - [Dev]. You imply that we'll be sitting idle waiting for the Dev CD, but I think that would only happen with a poor rotation, where you burn SS,Rev,SW before touching Dev, leaving you with a gap. I better rotation will be to mix the Devs between these other abilities so there is still something to push for every GCD. Something to make the prot prio system slightly more interesting.

    CS and Shield Block are 80 rage abilities. Another change that shows a pattern between prot and dps. It seems the aim is for warriors to care about rage. Frankly, I was never that good at it, I just made sure I had enough and then got on with my day. But now the intent seems to be that you fill up your rage bar and then dump it into one of these buff abilities. I can't see one for fury, but I'm going to assume that's because they're working on the fury hits things fast rather than a more measured approach my arms.

    The thing that you might have missed about the prot rotation, is that damage taken will probably not generate rage. This means that you're not going to be swimming in rage to hit SB constantly. Hence, SB is part of the aim to make your choice of dps moves important. You want to maximise the usage of SB to prove you're a better tank than that guy who just ebay'ed his account. I'm not sure what I'll do on adds. I guess I'll use LS or just dump into WW spam.

    The heroic strike change reflects Inner Rage being removed. It doesn't change much for those of us who macro'd them together.

    --------------

    The things that are better are:

    ~ we should have more responsibility about our damage taken.

    The things that are disappointing to me are:

    ~ Safeguard - it was great but under loved. I guess it would be too OP to make baseline on Intervene.

    ~ Imp. Revenge - it didn't do too much, but it gave me that little extra threat on dual targets when I required it. However, it did cause me issues on LK and Saurafang when it hit targets it shouldn't have.

    ~ I expected a bit more involvement of the Active Mitigation model than we got. The rage bar was never my friend. I would have preferred some extra defensive components added to Dev/SS/Rev instead.

    --------------

    Overall, I'm keen to actually see this current model in action before drawing too many conclusions. From what I see around mmo this morning, most people don't have a firm grasp on how the rotation will play out.
    Last edited by Mammoth; 2011-11-24 at 09:16 AM.
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  8. #8
    MAN. Mest's Avatar
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    I think it's too early in developement to really discuss the material Blizzard has posted. It doesn't even seem like a baseline to build something on yet.

    Until Blizzard creates a more concrete model I'll spend my time posting my ideas of interesting game play on the official MoP boards.

  9. #9
    These changes look interesting. There's nothing more I can say apart from willing to try them and see how they'll work out. With the promise of MoP beta, I'll be sitting there most of my free time to see how these changes work, but I assume that they'll release a patch before MoP launches with all of these changes.

    The most interesting to me seems to be SB. It reminds me of before WotLK where we had 3 charges and a very short CD IIRC. I also have the feeling that we will gain rage a lot slower and we're basically forced to go and reforge to hit and expertise. Not saying that it's a bad thing, though.

    Also, call me stupid but a Shield Wall without a shield? wut?
    Last edited by Retalius; 2011-11-24 at 09:41 AM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Retalius View Post
    Also, call me stupid but a Shield Wall without a shield? wut?
    .... how can this be a problem for so many people. Just rename it [Shielding Wall]. To shield is to protect. It was never the case that my warrior was able to stretch his shield out into a 360' protective barrier, so the name as you interpret it never made sense.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Mammoth View Post
    .... how can this be a problem for so many people.
    Didn't say it was a problem. Just found it was hilarious.

  12. #12
    I quite like what I am seeing with changes to prot.

    Devastate now costs no rage, down from 15, but has a 3 sec cooldown, up from 0.
    I have always said to combine HS and Deva would make tanking far far less spammy for us and this as such is a step in this direction in my opinion. I loath the current Devastate model, Smashing 1 button until something procs or comes of cool-down. I much prefer the outlook in MoP.

    I also really like the idea of active tanking. Some ability's building rage, others consuming it. Making me think about what is about to happen next with a boss rather than "lolololol face + keyboard threat" Heroic Baleroc, in my experience gives me a sense of this, Decimation blade, use avoidance trinkets, fireblade thingy, pop Mirror. Moving this kind of idea into tanking in general is just Win for me.

    I was going to go dps as my main role after tanking since vanilla, this expansion I lost some love for tanking, but with the possible changes, its getting me pumped again.

  13. #13
    The Lightbringer shadowkras's Avatar
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    ~ Safeguard - it was great but under loved. I guess it would be too OP to make baseline on Intervene.
    They could easily give us the passive ability on prot spec only. Like they gave us a lot of other talents while leveling.
    People take stupidity to a whole new level when they sit in front of a computer.

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  14. #14
    Blademaster Tott3's Avatar
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    It's kinda early to say but if this is how it's gonna be.. I see myself rerolling. If i'd like to play Death Knight i would have rerolled mine ages ago.

  15. #15
    While i agree with some of the changes it seems they are taking the "Feel" out of the game by making both Shield Wall and Spell Reflect no longer require a shield, while this is a good buff to say the least, it is just a slippery slope falling from thelast remaining interests WOW

  16. #16
    Blademaster Tott3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vudkah View Post
    While i agree with some of the changes it seems they are taking the "Feel" out of the game by making both Shield Wall and Spell Reflect no longer require a shield, while this is a good buff to say the least, it is just a slippery slope falling from thelast remaining interests WOW
    Like Blizzard saying they can't change so you can Backstab from infront becuse it makes no sense? :P I fail to see their logic

  17. #17
    For me it is only another proof that Ghostcrawler is incompetent and does not understand the game.

    - beginning of cata: tank should value offensive stats more, so we're bringing down the absurd level of threat of wotlk down but instead we're adding vengeance so that the tank threat will scale appropriately.
    - middle of cata: vengeance does not work in dungeons... so we have decided that tank should not worry about offensive stats anymore, we're buffing threat again to wotlk level.

    - end of bc: we don't want war to spam shield block, so we put it on cd for wotlk
    - mop: we're removing the shield block so that war under raid conditions will have to spam it again even more

    - end of wotlk: DKs have to use runes to activate their mitigation CD (unbreakable armore, vampiric blood, blood vengeance). The consequence is that the cd is not always available when shit happens, and forces the DKs to hoard on their runes indefinitely until the shit hit the fans. It's such a clunky and stupid mechanic that GC gets rid of the rune requirement for cataclysm.
    - mop: we're going to constrain the warrior cd with his ressource so that he won't be able to use shield wall when shit happens, unless he hoards the rage.

    GC keeps turning one direction then turns the other. He does not have any vision or insight on the game, and his incompentence has been the downfall of Wow ever since he joined.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowkras View Post
    They could easily give us the passive ability on prot spec only. Like they gave us a lot of other talents while leveling.
    When I said OP, I meant for any tank class to have it. If we are able to Safeguard the other tank, every tanking class will want to be able to Safeguard the other tank. I believe we only got away with it for this long, because most warriors didn't spec it.

    Whether or not the paladin's hand of sacrifice (only just found this) is acceptable is likely to get me angry in this respect, but they tend to use lore as a defence.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by krovikanMt View Post
    •Battle Stance no longer restricts which abilities can be used and now only increases damage done by 10%.
    •Defensive Stance no longer restricts which abilities can be used and now only decreases damage taken by 10% and significantly increases threat generation.
    •Berserker Stance no longer restricts which abilities can be used and now only increases damage done by Whirlwind and Cleave by 20%
    Not all that bad but why do blizzard even bother having a berserker stance ? They might aswell change it to a short cd making you doing high amount of burst. having a stance which you only go to during trash is wired. but well I don't really complain about it since already you never really change stances...

    •Heroic Strike's cooldown has been decreased to 1.5 sec, down from 3 sec.
    Cleave might be changed to 1,5 sec aswell or what you think?

    •Charge now generates 20 rage, up from 15, and stuns for 1.5 sec, up from 1 sec. Additionally, it can now always be used in combat
    Because Intercept will be removed I guess this is ideal.

    •Thunder Clap now reduces enemy damage done by 10% instead of increasing the time between their attacks by 20%.
    If I remember correct there was a post about demo just being an annoyig tool that had to be used and blizzard wanted to remove it. so I guess this is reason that thunderclap will have a change.

    •Shield Wall no longer requires Shields.
    •Spell Reflection no longer requires Shields.
    Now I guess lots of you gonna qq about this, because a good warrior was able to pick up shield which unlocked new stuff for him (shield wall shield reflect), but well I guess this is mainly to make pvp a bit easy on new players.

    •Intervene no longer reduces the target's threat
    I'm among the few warriors who use intervene for Threat reduction, not that it's always needed but if you get die during bl and get combat ressed it's nice to be able to intervene the highest on threat after taunting. That will be impossible , Even when I was in offspec I was ready to intervene whoever got to high on threat(if the tank for some reason generated to low amount of threat). But well threat is not that big of a issue but still I like the 10% threat reduction.


    •Shield Slam now generates 10 rage, instead of consuming it.
    •Revenge is now exclusive to Protection and costs no rage but has a 10 sec cooldown, up from 5 sec.
    •Devastate now costs no rage, down from 15, but has a 3 sec cooldown, up from 0.
    So I guess this will mean that we will sit idle half the fight waiting for cds.

    •Shield Block is now exclusive to Protection and has no cooldown, down from 1 minute, but costs 80 rage, up from 0. It also now increases your chance to block by 25% for the next incoming melee attack instead of for the next 10 seconds.
    •Last Stand now has no cooldown, down from 3 minutes, but costs 80 rage, up from 0.
    So while sitting idle for our cds we slowly build up rage on white attacks only + shield slam (not dmg taken), once we have 80+ rage we will just pop either of those depending on fight when it's needed.
    And wtf big nerf on shield block :/ I saw a nerf coming since hitting unhitable on first tear is simply just stupid. but 25% + chance on blocking one attack is just bad.

    I tanked as a warrior since vanilia and now this might start to sound like a qq post, but anyway here I go. I don't really see protection warrior looking fun at all ("then don't play it"), but well the problem is that I want to play proctection warrior but this change on rage/abliities used is just so major and from what I can see nothing good will come out of it.

    My question is have I overlooked something? is there something I haven't mentioned that is changed for the better?

    PS: sorry for my english
    Are you Gellor? i used to play with one in vanilla that was not american. But i really do not care about the changes because my monk is going to be my main! Good luck finding some joy out of the changes.

  20. #20
    The Lightbringer shadowkras's Avatar
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    When I said OP, I meant for any tank class to have it. If we are able to Safeguard the other tank, every tanking class will want to be able to Safeguard the other tank. I believe we only got away with it for this long, because most warriors didn't spec it.

    Whether or not the paladin's hand of sacrifice (only just found this) is acceptable is likely to get me angry in this respect, but they tend to use lore as a defence.
    Well, i want to instantly full heal the other tank on a right click of my mouse.
    People take stupidity to a whole new level when they sit in front of a computer.

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