[5.0] Ironbark

[Hoticehunter]

So we lost our defensive cd (in pve it would almost always go to the tank)

Ya, I'm really sad about this. There's no reason we should have lost barkskin in order to get Ironbark. I use barkskin all the time in raids, it's going to take a lot of conditioning to keep myself from hitting that button so often and wasting the CD.

[Deleted]

That's a fair point to make, so let me ask you: Based on what you see for MoP, do you think that never ending struggle will persist? It's hard to predict what pvp will be like with so many major changes to game mechanics, but do you feel we are being given enough tools to make PvP more viable in the future? Think, for example, about the impact Might of Ursok or Symbiosis may have. No one knows exactly how Symbiosis will work, but I'm sure it will be useful for PvP. You'll have burst heal capabilities with mushrooms. You'll have movement, snare, stun, defensive, and knockback capabilities from talents. There are a lot of things being given to druids that will help with PvP, so I'd be hesitant to think the loss of a 1-min survival CD in exchange for a 2-min one will be a significant penalty to druids in PvP.

I think a glyph or other option that makes casting barkskin on the druid give it a 1 min CD isn't unreasonable. I'm not convinced it's necessary though for balance reasons.

Its not the +1 min only we afraid , but automatically we loose the <<-25% crit chance from enemys>>

1) mushrooms = if u beg ur friend to stay there , only 1 mushrooms wont do any job , better with those 2 gcd to do a normal heal
2) movement = we also have now
3) snare , knockback capabilities = eiather 1 of the other , typhoon is still bugged (( if cast while in middle air , it will fail , while from close range has like 30 degree cone ) and the <<snare>> , ( can have snare atm too) from deasese type school got into magic school , so it is easily dispellable
4) stun = like atm , 50 sec cd or , u can go cat and get 4-5 points and <<maim>> , but still kitty form aint have any armor

Personaly i really afraid they are going once more , balancing spell and rotations under dps meters .
How i know it ?
Look what happened on mages .
Instead of letting them keep their defencive cds , and do poorly damage in pvp , like feral druids at wotlk , before they introduced armor penetration , they will <<force>> them to choose few , from talents trees .
Same with druids that have to unlock the ability to remove roots + lifebloom is still a single target , while shamans got a <,tranquility style >> totem .
If thats the case 1 more time , we will heavily depent on tranquility in raids +wg + healing mushrooms , and get oblitarated at bgs like atm .

I know each expansion have his medium-underpower characters , so i personaly wil w8 , the x-pack after MoP

[Myrrar]

Don't judge pvp at all right now. Every single class is getting a giant overhaul. Pretending druids may still suck in arenas due to barkskin is a little silly when 90% of the game is changing.

I use barkskin on CD almost in PvE. I would much rather have a this tank CD though.

[Deleted]

True about the overhaul
Maybe instead of trying to balance the game around damage meters once again , their trying to <<reset>> the game for a fresh new start

[hammock]

Grow up, please
Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it isn't acceptable. Acceptable by whose standards anyway? It's Blizzard's game, they decide and of course while they base many of their decisions on the feedback from players, I hate how more and more people feel personally attacked by game changes. It's a game and the change affects your game avatar. If the cooldown is extended to 2 minutes you just adapt, simple as that. Wouldn't things get boring really quickly if nothing changed, ever?

Oh, and yeah, I have a druid myself and I'm as far from bothered about this as one could possibly be.

Wow. Chill.
Acceptable by my standards. Yes, its blizzard's game; but I'm allowed to have an opinion on it. And I'm allowed to express said opinion on this forum.
Lolwut?1. I don't see this as a "personal" attack; where'd ya pull that one from? 2. I'm not saying change is bad and nothing should change. Again where'd ya pull that one from?

---------- Post added 2011-11-27 at 02:55 AM ----------

A 2 minute CD is acceptable. If it weren't 2 minutes, we'd be able to use it more often than any other healer can.

You have to realize (and whether or not you want to accept it, it's inevitable so you may as well accept it) that when you gain something useful you have to lose something in return. The only exception to this is if you're currently underpowered, which druids are not. If they didn't increase the CD, they'd have to decrease the effectiveness or take something else away.

So what if Rdruids can use it more often? Rdruids don't have other abilities that other healers have.

Your second part is just lol and not worth commenting on.

[Myrrar]

A 20% damage reduction on a tank every minute is OP. You can't even argue or pretend to argue it's not. His point is, if everyone had that it would be a norm, but it's not.

And his 2nd point is 100% correct. We got amazing tranq and lost nothing. On aoe fights without gimmicky mechanics we were stupidly over powered. It's possible they will change it so we can cast it on ourselves with a lower CD. But losing 1min barkskin for a 2 min tank CD is well, well worth it. It's a buff.

[Dendrek]

Wow. Chill.
Acceptable by my standards. Yes, its blizzard's game; but I'm allowed to have an opinion on it. And I'm allowed to express said opinion on this forum.
Lolwut?1. I don't see this as a "personal" attack; where'd ya pull that one from? 2. I'm not saying change is bad and nothing should change. Again where'd ya pull that one from?

---------- Post added 2011-11-27 at 02:55 AM ----------



So what if Rdruids can use it more often? Rdruids don't have other abilities that other healers have.

Your second part is just lol and not worth commenting on.

I don't think you've thought through this at all and you're just throwing a tantrum. So I won't bother trying to respond to your post constructively.

[hammock]

A 20% damage reduction on a tank every minute is OP. You can't even argue or pretend to argue it's not.

Never said anything about it being 1 minute CD.

But, providing Resto doesn't bring anything else to the table, I don't see a problem.
Shamans provide a 10% physical damage reduction with practically 100% uptime.
Paladins have 50,000 CDs to press.
Priests? The only class I see it unfair on. But chances are they will get something.

And no his 2nd point is incorrect. 1 example doesn't prove a point.
Stop looking into healing meters. They suck.

[Myrrar]

You are talking about classes you don't seem to understand. Priests have more CDs than everyone put together... Shaman have 10% dmg reduction, which still makes them worth sitting 90% of fights, far less than us. Pallys had their AoE nurfed to the ground because they have so many other things to do.

If you don't think it should be a 1 min CD, what are you complaining about. It should be a 1.5 min CD instead of 2? Resto brings massive throughput. You can try and claim meters don't matter at all, which in general they don't, but if you honestly think effective throughput should be ignored because it's on a meter then, well, I don't know what to tell you.

In ICC we were sat with massive throughput due to mechanics. In FL we were taken purely off massive throughput and Tranq because we were good for the mechanics. But, if MoP mechanics are in our favor, and we get CDs, and we get this and that....

I agree with Dendrek, you really really haven't thought this through at all.

[midazolam]

I would suggest letting us keep Barkskin in addition Ironbark, but hey, I'd still like Ironbark.

[Vraizan]

Personally I'm quite happy with Ironbark, there have been numerous times when I've wished I could cast barkskin on the tank getting wailed on, however, I think perhaps making it a glyph might have been better. It's hard to say considering no one has played MoP yet, but with a glyph restos who pvp could keep their 1 min damage cd for themselves, as most likely in pvp they wouldn't cast it on someone else and raiding restos could use the glyph that allows it to be cast on others while increasing the cd to 2 min. Again, no one really know how restos are gonna be in MoP pvp, so it really might not make much difference anyway.

[Sherylina]

I can't believe people didn't expect this to happen when people were harping on about wanting a targettable Barkskin lol. I took it for granted that the CD would most likely be increased and bought up to the same CD as other healers major CDs.

Sure it's a shame to lose Barkskin, but at least in PVE this is so so so so much better! I'm really happy with this change and hope it follows through. I'm almost expecting a further thoroughput (sp?) nerf tbh now we have this CD but most likely resto will be changing a lot in the expansion anyway so too early to expect or ask for anything yet.

[Duilliath]

Honestly, some of you are being incredibly silly.

"Hey, Blizzard, Resto Druids have no Tank cooldown and have suffered since the beginning of times!"

"You know what, you're right. Let's give you one!" *coding magic!* "Here you go, Barkskin can now be used on a tank, with the same CD as the other tank CDs!"

"Scroo joo! I want my 1min CD that I had earlier when it was a crappy self-CD!"

Wise up. It's a massive buff to the Resto toolkit.

[foxHeart]

Bring on the raid utility. Kind of tired of resto just being an uninteresting spamathon and being completely unable to do anything but heal. Contrast that to a paladin who can throw out freedom, bop, sacrifice, salvation, loh, two different party buffs...you get the picture.

[hammock]

You are talking about classes you don't seem to understand. Priests have more CDs than everyone put together... Shaman have 10% dmg reduction, which still makes them worth sitting 90% of fights, far less than us. Pallys had their AoE nurfed to the ground because they have so many other things to do.

If you don't think it should be a 1 min CD, what are you complaining about. It should be a 1.5 min CD instead of 2? Resto brings massive throughput. You can try and claim meters don't matter at all, which in general they don't, but if you honestly think effective throughput should be ignored because it's on a meter then, well, I don't know what to tell you.

In ICC we were sat with massive throughput due to mechanics. In FL we were taken purely off massive throughput and Tranq because we were good for the mechanics. But, if MoP mechanics are in our favor, and we get CDs, and we get this and that....

I agree with Dendrek, you really really haven't thought this through at all.

Priest CDs can hardly be mentioned in the same breath as Pally CDs. And no. I am talking about classes I understand.

I'd say somewhere between 1min/2mins.
I don't have to claim anything about healing meters. They're pointless. End of.

Blizzard have already nerfed our throughput regardless, its on their radar. Do you really think we will have the same throughput in MOP?
Your basing your argument assuming on favourable mechanics and the same throughput. I can't say anything about mechanics but I can say we won't have the same throughput in MOP.
On the contrary, I have thought this through.

[Pud'n]

Hopefully they'll update the animation.

[Myrrar]

Priest CDs can hardly be mentioned in the same breath as Pally CDs. And no. I am talking about classes I understand.

I'd say somewhere between 1min/2mins.
I don't have to claim anything about healing meters. They're pointless. End of.

Blizzard have already nerfed our throughput regardless, its on their radar. Do you really think we will have the same throughput in MOP?
Your basing your argument assuming on favourable mechanics and the same throughput. I can't say anything about mechanics but I can say we won't have the same throughput in MOP.
On the contrary, I have thought this through.

...

If you look at everyones reactions to your posts, it's not just because they decided to pick you to argue with.

If you think pally CDs are just massively better than priest CDs I don't know what to tell you besides look at a full tier of raids and judge it off that.

'Somewhere between 1 and 2 minutes' you are just arguing for the sake of arguing. But I will keep trying to get you to see even though everyone else has given up.

You say people shouldn't assume there will be massive areas for AoE throughput(mechanics favoring us). How do you know other classes wont become majorly gimped by their changes? How do you know if the only big CD usable will be a CD like ironbark, so making it shorter than 2 mins will make guilds take 5/6 druids. You don't. In general, they want to try and balance niches in some way.

We didn't have any real CDs the last 2 expansions(when they actually started worrying about balance) so we got massive throughput. On some fights, we are taken just for our throughput/tranq, and some fights we are sat due to no CDs. The WG nurf is huge, and has absolutely nothing to do with what's happening in MoP. So, you need to stop judging based on things you don't know if you want others to do the same.

As for effective healing, talk to any top raider in the world and ask if effective healing is worthless. It's absurd to even pretend it's not. You base fights for healing off 2 main things with lots of smaller things in those 2 categories: the amount of dmg going out and what kind of dmg is going out.

For instance, shaman had SLT which is a good CD some fights and were still sat on Rag. We were taken due to massive throughput, even with no big CDs besides pure throughput tranq. On other fights, shaman were taken, and we were sat due to not having a CD. Fights differ on what they need, and throughput it a huge thing to consider when looking at what healers to take and why.

Our throughout is the only reason we were taken at all this expansion. If we hadn't had such massive effective healing, we would be sat due to no CDs. I could outheal anyone in my raid, by a large amount, all through top 50 progression and was still sat some fights. I had the throughput because that's what my class did, I didn't have the CDs. That does not mean effective healing doesn't mean anything. Other classes with CDs were sat for me other fights because it was a pure effective healing and I could do more than them because that's what druids do.


So again, you aren't thinking this through. You are dumbing it down to try and fit your opinion that Ironbark's CD is way too long. Healing and healers are not that simple. Everyone knows we need CDs, IF, and really, IF...we somehow have all the same problems in MoP as we do(which we wont, they are massively overhauling everything) we need CDs to equal us out if we are getting AoE nurfed. That doesn't mean we need some CD way more overpowered than everyone else's. If you just look at the changes they have already said it's fairly obvious it is their intent to fix the problems found in Cata.

You should take your own advice and stop assuming things about next expansion.

[Dendrek]

Priest CDs can hardly be mentioned in the same breath as Pally CDs. And no. I am talking about classes I understand.

I'd say somewhere between 1min/2mins.
I don't have to claim anything about healing meters. They're pointless. End of.

Blizzard have already nerfed our throughput regardless, its on their radar. Do you really think we will have the same throughput in MOP?
Your basing your argument assuming on favourable mechanics and the same throughput. I can't say anything about mechanics but I can say we won't have the same throughput in MOP.
On the contrary, I have thought this through.

Should we simply accept your opinion because you speak with a sense of authority? You provide absolutely no support for your arguments, or when you do "support" your arguments, it's with random and easily disprovable exaggerations. You say you've thought through this, but really all you seem to have thought through is "They're taking something that's mine and I'm pissed."

Let's take your two claims,

"I'd say somewhere between 1min/2mins"
Do you even have an idea of what a fair number is? That's a rhetorical question by the way, because it's obvious you don't. If Blizz had made it a 3 min CD, I fully suspect you'd be here arguing, "That's ridiculous! It should have been 2 mins." I base this suspicion on the fact that you don't seem to have a number that's "fair" in mind, you just want a "more fair" number than they gave us. You just want more; that's all you want. And you're desperately trying to convince us that more is fair.

"I don't have to claim anything about healing meters. They're pointless. End of."
Seriously? You're a rebel, bro. Good for you. The only problem is that you're a rebel without a cause. It's become a common thing for people to say "healing meters don't matter." But that statement is meaningless and pointless. It's as bad as stating, "Healing meters are all that matter." Why? Because it's a blanket statement that completely ignores context and demonstrates a lack of understanding of how healing actually works.

If you ask the question, "How can you tell if [x] healer did a good job?" A lot of people will simplify the answer down to: "Was everyone alive at the end?" But does that really tell you if the healer did a good job? There were a lot of things the healer may or may not have had to do to keep everyone alive. If instead they say, "Was his throughput really high?" then they still aren't getting a full picture.

To know if a healer is good, you need to know all of the following:

• Does he have good situational awareness? Is he able to avoid the fire and other hazards? (Bonus points if he can maintain high/maximum throughput while avoiding those things.)
• Did he carry his own weight? Was his throughput high enough that he wasn't being carried by other healers? (Bonus points if he did so well he actually carried other healers.)
• Did he use appropriate CDs when needed? (Bonus points if he does it automatically without it needing to be called out, especially if he calls it out when needed.)
• Did he follow his assignment? (Extra points if he went above and beyond: following his assignment while assisting with others.)
• Can I trust him to be reliable? Does he have a good attitude? Does he show up on time and prepared? (Bonus points if I never have to think twice about being able to rely on him, if it's just a given that he'll be there.)
• Does he have the tools needed to perform his role? This could be a hardware issue: does he have a fast computer and a good internet connection? Does he use good addons or macros to make his job easy enough that knowing what buttons to press is second nature? This could also be a class issue: Does he have the right CDs or throughput needed for us to succeed at this fight?

You can't judge a healer based on only one of the above criteria, which too many people make the mistake of doing. But you also can't completely ignore one of the above criteria when judging a healer. "Yeah we beat the encounter but he was dead half ways through it." Or "He had almost no healing done but he was excellent at staying out of the fire."

You're wrong to exclude healing done (and healing meters) as an effective tool to judge whether a healer is doing well.

[hammock]

You say people shouldn't assume there will be massive areas for AoE throughput(mechanics favoring us). How do you know other classes wont become majorly gimped by their changes? How do you know if the only big CD usable will be a CD like ironbark, so making it shorter than 2 mins will make guilds take 5/6 druids. You don't. In general, they want to try and balance niches in some way.

Yes I don't know how its all going to pan out. But I'm basing it of what I do know. (yes I know its subject to change etc.etc. and my opinion on the matter will evolve with the changes etc,etc.)

I don't know if other classes will become gimped by their changes. But I can easily flip it round and say "How do you know the other classes won't be massively overpowered by their changes?"

We didn't have any real CDs the last 2 expansions(when they actually started worrying about balance) so we got massive throughput. On some fights, we are taken just for our throughput/tranq, and some fights we are sat due to no CDs. The WG nurf is huge, and has absolutely nothing to do with what's happening in MoP. So, you need to stop judging based on things you don't know if you want others to do the same.

I'm not saying the WG nerf had anything to do with MOP. I'm just saying Blizz is keeping a close eye on the state of resto druids and its going to carry over into MOP.

As for effective healing, talk to any top raider in the world and ask if effective healing is worthless. It's absurd to even pretend it's not. You base fights for healing off 2 main things with lots of smaller things in those 2 categories: the amount of dmg going out and what kind of dmg is going out.

For instance, shaman had SLT which is a good CD some fights and were still sat on Rag. We were taken due to massive throughput, even with no big CDs besides pure throughput tranq. On other fights, shaman were taken, and we were sat due to not having a CD. Fights differ on what they need, and throughput it a huge thing to consider when looking at what healers to take and why.

Our throughout is the only reason we were taken at all this expansion. If we hadn't had such massive effective healing, we would be sat due to no CDs. I could outheal anyone in my raid, by a large amount, all through top 50 progression and was still sat some fights. I had the throughput because that's what my class did, I didn't have the CDs. That does not mean effective healing doesn't mean anything. Other classes with CDs were sat for me other fights because it was a pure effective healing and I could do more than them because that's what druids do.

I know the only reason why we were taken. The high throughput was a quick fix to cover resto druids for a lack of CDs. We're getting a CD in mop.Therefore we won't have a high throughput.

I'm not saying effective healing is worthless. I'm saying its worthless to base it off healing meters.

So again, you aren't thinking this through. You are dumbing it down to try and fit your opinion that Ironbark's CD is way too long. Healing and healers are not that simple. Everyone knows we need CDs, IF, and really, IF...we somehow have all the same problems in MoP as we do(which we wont, they are massively overhauling everything) we need CDs to equal us out if we are getting AoE nurfed. That doesn't mean we need some CD way more overpowered than everyone else's. If you just look at the changes they have already said it's fairly obvious it is their intent to fix the problems found in Cata.

You should take your own advice and stop assuming things about next expansion.

I don't see how I'm dumbing it down to somehow make it fit my opinion.
We get a few powerful cds. Other classes get more CDs but are weaker. How is that not balanced?

IF, and really, IF...we somehow have all the same problems in MoP as we do(which we wont, they are massively overhauling everything) we need CDs to equal us out if we are getting AoE nurfed.

And you still don't take my advice about assuming things. /sigh

---------- Post added 2011-11-30 at 01:22 AM ----------

Should we simply accept your opinion because you speak with a sense of authority? You provide absolutely no support for your arguments, or when you do "support" your arguments, it's with random and easily disprovable exaggerations. You say you've thought through this, but really all you seem to have thought through is "They're taking something that's mine and I'm pissed."

My opinion is exactly that; an opinion. I'm not saying you should accept it, especially with the way I speak.

If you wanted support all you had to do was ask, rather than a wall of text......

Let's take your two claims,

"I'd say somewhere between 1min/2mins"
Do you even have an idea of what a fair number is? That's a rhetorical question by the way, because it's obvious you don't. If Blizz had made it a 3 min CD, I fully suspect you'd be here arguing, "That's ridiculous! It should have been 2 mins." I base this suspicion on the fact that you don't seem to have a number that's "fair" in mind, you just want a "more fair" number than they gave us. You just want more; that's all you want. And you're desperately trying to convince us that more is fair.

No. No one has an idea of what a fair number is.(Yourself included). If blizz had made it a 3min CD I would have bitched about it beta/assumed that we would be getting another CD.

I don't "just want more." I'm just looking at what we know(subject to change etc). And basing an opinion on the matter.
What we know:
1. Druids won't have as much throughput as they do now
2.We have Ironbark,TOL(if talented) and Tranq. Thats it.

"I don't have to claim anything about healing meters. They're pointless. End of."
Seriously? You're a rebel, bro. Good for you. The only problem is that you're a rebel without a cause. It's become a common thing for people to say "healing meters don't matter." But that statement is meaningless and pointless. It's as bad as stating, "Healing meters are all that matter." Why? Because it's a blanket statement that completely ignores context and demonstrates a lack of understanding of how healing actually works.

If you ask the question, "How can you tell if [x] healer did a good job?" A lot of people will simplify the answer down to: "Was everyone alive at the end?" But does that really tell you if the healer did a good job? There were a lot of things the healer may or may not have had to do to keep everyone alive. If instead they say, "Was his throughput really high?" then they still aren't getting a full picture.

To know if a healer is good, you need to know all of the following:

• Does he have good situational awareness? Is he able to avoid the fire and other hazards? (Bonus points if he can maintain high/maximum throughput while avoiding those things.)
• Did he carry his own weight? Was his throughput high enough that he wasn't being carried by other healers? (Bonus points if he did so well he actually carried other healers.)
• Did he use appropriate CDs when needed? (Bonus points if he does it automatically without it needing to be called out, especially if he calls it out when needed.)
• Did he follow his assignment? (Extra points if he went above and beyond: following his assignment while assisting with others.)
• Can I trust him to be reliable? Does he have a good attitude? Does he show up on time and prepared? (Bonus points if I never have to think twice about being able to rely on him, if it's just a given that he'll be there.)
• Does he have the tools needed to perform his role? This could be a hardware issue: does he have a fast computer and a good internet connection? Does he use good addons or macros to make his job easy enough that knowing what buttons to press is second nature? This could also be a class issue: Does he have the right CDs or throughput needed for us to succeed at this fight?

You can't judge a healer based on only one of the above criteria, which too many people make the mistake of doing. But you also can't completely ignore one of the above criteria when judging a healer. "Yeah we beat the encounter but he was dead half ways through it." Or "He had almost no healing done but he was excellent at staying out of the fire."

You're wrong to exclude healing done (and healing meters) as an effective tool to judge whether a healer is doing well.

You just proved me right there. But I'll add a few things because they are relavent and relate them to the meters.
Anticipation. If a healer correctly anticipates incoming damage and takes action, it would have a negative effect on the meter.
DPS using heals. If a rogue used recuperate as the healer see this and doesn't heal him as much, it would have a negative effect on the meter.
DPS avoiding damage. Negative effect on the meter

There's too many variables to just give healers a number and rank them based of it.

[Dendrek]

"We're getting a CD in mop.Therefore we won't have a high throughput."

And yet your argument is that the CD isn't enough. You don't know what our throughput will be like, so you can't say how high it will be. Without any evidence that our throughput will be the same as or weaker than other healers, you don't have much of an argument there to suggest we need more CDs. You can tap dance around this point if you like but the point remains: You're making an assumption about what our throughput will be and trying to use that as one reason why we need more CDs. It's a bad argument. And you're also doing what you tell Myrrar not to (making assumptions).

"I'm not saying effective healing is worthless. I'm saying its worthless to base it off healing meters."

Do you realize you're the one who brought up healing meters as a counter to what Myrrar and I were saying about druid throughput. We argued that our throughput is high. You countered with "healing meters are pointless. End of." Again, YOU brought up meters. Now you're saying that effective healing isn't worthless (so you're agreeing with us). And yet you're trying to drag us into your poorly thought through argument about healing meters. You put words into our mouths and then counter them. Stop trying to muddy the argument about throughput by interjecting the words "healing meters."

"We get a few powerful cds. Other classes get more CDs but are weaker. How is that not balanced?"

Wait, so it's balanced now that we have a few powerful CDs? Then why do we need our CDs to be up more often? Please make up your mind.

"There's too many variables to just give healers a number and rank them based of it."

Give healers a number and rank them based off it? Did I say anything close to that at any point at all in this discussion? Did Myrrar? Did we even hint at that? You are arguing against a straw man.

As for your other point about healing meters: Yes, there's variability to them, but that doesn't make them pointless. There is a lot of information that can be gained from them. But to be honest, I don't want to continue this argument about healing meters because it has nothing to do with Ironbark or our other CDs. You agreed earlier that our throughput right now is high. You obviously agree there is some relevance about how much throughput a class is capable of. Let's get off this irrelevant argument about healing meters.

---------- Post added 2011-12-01 at 01:46 AM ----------

The issue here is that Myrrar and I think it is balanced for us to have a 2 min Ironbark. It's consistent with how other CDs work and it's a CD that druid healers needed. We've had to sacrifice Barkskin to get it but the fact is we weren't going to get it for free. I don't anticipate our throughput being dropped so much in other areas that we'll need to be compensated with other buffs, such as the one you're requesting: that Ironbark be up more often than every 2 mins. We'd have to lose A LOT in order to gain a buff to utility that is that big.

For removing one of our inherent utility spells, which is still available to all other specs in our class, Blizzard may compensate us. And that would be fair. But arguments that imply we need to be compensated because Ironbark isn't strong enough, or we don't have enough CDs, or that our throughput won't be high enough, are all completely hypothetical at best.

In other words, there are defensible arguments why Blizzard should consider compensating us for the loss of Barkskin. But if you try to argue that, compared to other healers, Ironbark is not balanced unless it's up more often than every 2 mins, you'll have an exceptionally hard time proving that.