Archimonds Vengence will get massively restricted / nerfed / never implemented.

[Button]

This talent has so much room for abuse it will never make it live without major restriction on boss abilities.

I am aware these are MoP talents but since I don't have any MoP bosses to go off of I'll use a 4.3 Boss, Pretty much every boss has something that can be abused.

Stacking 10 locks (not that unrealistic in a 25 man raid)

Quick example

Warlord Zon'ozz

Void Diffusion - When the Void collides with a player it diffuses, inflicting 807300 Shadow damage split evenly between nearby players. The force of this diffusion causes the void to richocet in the opposite direction, and the absorbed souls increases the damage the Void inflicts by 20% per diffusion.

1 warlock acts as a blocker each time using Sacrificial Pact to prevent death, once they have all done a rotation they start to sacrifice themselves, imagine the following,





So if there are no restrictions AV will do circa 61kk damage.

I can think of so many bosses where this could be abused to completely destroy an encounter.

[kushlol]

It's easy to assume the damage won't exceed more then your entire healthpool and if you took enough damage to die it would only be 25% of your health pool. This seem more of a pvp talent to gain some damage when you are being focused and locked down with interupts to put out pressure on your opponents.

[Deleted]

You really couldnt come up with something like "cant do more dmg than you have health" or "a maximum 50% of your max health". Im pretty sure thats how they're gonna do it :c

[Qprah]

Sacrificial Pact - Your Demon sacrifices half of its health to prevent all damage you would take for 10 seconds.

Archimonde's Vengeance - Curses a target, causing them to take 25% of the damage you take for 15 seconds.

I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding you, but if I'm not, its not going to be nearly half as good as you think it could be. By which I'm assuming you are implying you can use them together to eat 1shot abilities to deal massive amounts of damage.

[Deleted]

Don't you just take 100% of your health as damage, while the rest is overkill?

[rijn dael]

Don't you just take 100% of your health as damage, while the rest is overkill?

This. Same concept as your overkill damage on a target wouldn't heal you via fel armour.

[Netherspark]

1 warlock acts as a blocker each time using Sacrificial Pact to prevent death, once they have all done a rotation they start to sacrifice themselves, imagine the following,

If you don't take damage, then none will be transfered via Archimonde's Vengeance. Plus it obviously can't exceed 25% of your own maximum health.

Lets say you have 100k health and you get hit for 50 million damage - Archimonde's Vengeance will only deal 25k damage to it's target.

[Deleted]

It's still abuseable.

If you stack damage reducing cooldowns, then you can have warlocks stand in fires that are meant to be moved out of, popping AV and, at the same time, Dark Regeneration for 25% more healing taken. Warlocks cast from in the fire for 15 sec then demonic circle out, healers spam warlocks to keep them alive, healers effectively convert their healing output into damage on the boss.

Sure, getting blown up by 1hit kills is bad, but if you can take 15 seconds of Standing In The Bad on a group of locks who are spam-healed to keep them alive, there's still damage potential in there.

It's an interesting mechanic, and were it available to more classes I'd think blizz might want us to consider this "dangerous DPS boost", but as it is, there's too much danger of seeing a world first stack AOE healers and warlocks and cheesing AV for a kill, and then it getting nerfed to the ground.

Ideally? Make it single target again, or cap it at 100% of player health. These both make it a viable PvP option, and the cap makes it a viable SMALL damage boost which still scales with gear, could still be useful, but is small enough to probably not make the huge differences a 15 second Redirect The Fire To The Boss ability could.

Also Edit because people seem to misunderstand OP's use of Sacrificial Pact - the idea is to use SP to stack up the damage on the orb, to maximise the damage output done by the 'locks being hit by it, not to try to get damage while immune. Note that the column Vengeance Damage doesn't have numbers in it until the first warlock actually dies.

[Deleted]

Not really. Generally speaking if you have a healer or several that can sustain the ammount of damage required for a significant effect, you'd be better off having some of them speC DPS.

With current numbers you'd need a modest 120k incoming DPS to rival that of another DPS which is not possible to heal through without having a dedicated group of healers.

I don't deny that the talent will be useful, especially so in PvP, but the impact on PvE encounters will be "at best" a wee bit more DPS for the warlock due to all the unavoidable damage you end up taking whilst raiding. Taking avoidable damage to DPS the boss won't be viable as it would be preferable to bring less healers and more DPS.

[Beskar]

Damage reducing cooldowns mean you're taking and dealing less damage...

So the furthest you could "abuse" this is Dark Regeneration and massive healing, which without damage reducing cooldowns will probably make healers oom faster than you can deal any significant damage.

I'm not really seeing the problem.

[ComputerNerd]

As correctly stated it is based on the damage you actually take, so any mitigation cooldowns and even more so damage avoidance cooldowns will if anything reduce the amount of damage transferred, not increase it.

[Deleted]

By the title of your post, you're pretty confident about your assertions. So if you get to "forsee" the future lottery numbers, please PM me !

[kushlol]

As far as I can tell from the info given about the talent itself it would seemingly be a dps loss in pve since it requires a global . Also it would be plain silly to waste healer mana not avoiding mechanics to make the dmg you gain from it worth the gcd.

[Button]

Thanks for the replies.

I agree with the replies of max 25% of your health. That would be the most logical addition to the talent. As it currently stands it has no restrictions so there is no reason it wouldn't transfer 'over kill' damage, we have all taken a stupid big hit from a boss before.

B

[kushlol]

Thanks for the replies.

I agree with the replies of max 25% of your health. That would be the most logical addition to the talent. As it currently stands it has no restrictions so there is no reason it wouldn't transfer 'over kill' damage, we have all taken a stupid big hit from a boss before.

B

Seems pointless to debate over being able to transfer overkill dmg since you don't actually take more than your current health poll when you die....Overkill doesn't kill you just the bare minimum of dmg to take you to 0 hit points will kill you.

if you've ever healed heroic domo and used sac as a paladin on someone taking a solo swipe with no other cooldown the paladin casting sac didn't get one shot because they only took 30% of the tanks health pool instead of 30% of the 2million damage cleave.

[6kle]

As people have said, the logical way to implement this talent is so that you deal 25% of the damage you actually take. So if you take a hit that deals 20k damage and have something reducing your damage taken by 50% then this talent will deal 2500 damage (25% of 10k). Using an immunity shield means you don't deal any damage with it since you aren't taking any damage. Any overkill damage doesn't get transferred either, so there, no reason to nerf the talent and it's not that great.

[Deleted]

Warlock tanks incoming!