Dell U2312HM and IPS monitors in general question

[papajohn4]

Hello I ve read so much discussion about Monitors for days/weeks now in forums in my country and it seems that lot of people gone crazy for Dell U2312HM and the previous model Dell 2311H. I was reading about IPS monitors too, about how better is the Display quality and the colors and the black/white e.t.c. But what I got from discussions is that those people are not gamers or they play games once in a while..so I don't know if their opinion matters for me so much..
I only play games on pc and 90% RPG games either single player or MMO. and the monitor I want to buy it has 0,6 imput lag and 8ms responce time, I heard that this two goes together (0,6+8) and that human eye cannot see the difference until 20-25...

So I would like to ask people that they have purchased an IPS Monitor and play RPG/MMO games if:

1. they have seen any difference in their gameplay, such as lag, blurring or ghosting and if so, was it just once in hours and "unnoticeable" or it was frustrating?
2. Is the improved quality noticeable (I am running with an LCD 2ms LG Monitor atm)?
3. At the end, is the Improved quality worth over the times of possible lag/blurring/ghosting?

To "convince" myself I always think that in the past I was playing in a 60Hz/16ms monitor and I had lot of fun , but you know if you are used to something good is difficult to go back..so people that moved into IPS panels or people with high technical knowledge can light me up :P

[vesseblah]

The main deal with IPS panels is better colors. It does not make any difference whatsoever to 99% of gamers, but people who do lot of photo/video editing love it.

If you have the extra money and genuine need for new monitor right now that Dell is most likely very good purchase and will last for years. But when playing WoW or Skyrim, you probably wont benefit from the benefits of IPS panel compared to your current monitor at all.

[papajohn4]

But when playing WoW or Skyrim, you probably wont benefit from the benefits of IPS panel compared to your current monitor at all.

that was really dishearten I actually play exactly those two games now btw and plan to play GW2 and maybe swtor...why these games do not benefit from better color display? (I am not questioning your judgement but rather I would like some extra info about why they don't benefit )

It does not make any difference whatsoever to 99% of gamers

with this you mean about the lag/ghosting/blurring or the one you said about color quality?

[Deleted]

It does not make any difference whatsoever to 99% of gamers

I wouldn't quite agree with that. Mind, it won't affect gaming performance - but many games do look better with a non-shit panel (whether its just going to a good TN panel or an IPS). As long as its a game that doesn't have an utterly incompetent art department, where brown = realism. Sadly, a lot of games (even high budget) qualify on that point.

With WoW's cartoony looks and being rather interface heavy, the difference is easily discernible though.

It is worth to note though that LED TN monitors typically look better in dark games though, like Amnesia - as IPS panels (doubly so with CCFL) can't quite reach the same contrast levels, the black levels are often noticeably higher.

I heard that this two goes together (0,6+8) and that human eye cannot see the difference until 20-25...

At 60fps (the maximum speed of any standard monitor) - the monitor only gets a new image every 16.6ms. As long as the sum of the delays are below one frame, its generally nothing to worry about.

Input lag is a straight up delay before any changes occur at all, the often cited GTG response time value is what produces the actual ghosting effect (though BTW/WTB is far more important for that, though generally never listed).

Input lag is felt, the response time is seen. As such - Input lag is completely irrelevant for watching movies for example. Refresh rate however is completely unimportant for general purpose computer use (browsing, writing documents, even photowork). But both matter for faster paced games.

[Deleted]

Honestly, I find that World of Warcraft is one of the games that improves tremendously with an IPS screen. As stated by others, by no means will it affect performance in any way, but due to the palette in the game I feel it looks a lot better with the stronger colours. They get enhanced with an IPS-panel and become more vivid.

One "flaw" with using an IPS-panel is that usually the blacks and dark colours become very dark (almost too dark). This also results in a much stronger contrast unless compensated for. This does however make games like for example the Modern Warfare series look a lot better.

I can honestly say that some games will benefit very little because of their bland colour scheme, but most do look extremely good with it compared to a TN-panel. I wouldn't put Skyrim far up on the list though.

Edit:
Of the games I have played using my IPS screen, I can honestly say that these improve the best when it comes to visuals with an IPS screen:
Battlefield 3, BFBC2, Call of Duty games (mainly because of the contrast thing), Dirt 3, Crysis 2, Just Cause 2, The Witcher 2, WoW.
Some with medium impact: Bulletstorm, Dragon Age I&II, GTA IV (with enhanced graphics mind), Hard Reset, HoN, Mass Effect 1&2, Oblivion and Skyrim, Rage.
Close to no impact: FEAR 3, Far Cry 2

[Drunkenvalley]

with this you mean about the lag/ghosting/blurring or the one you said about color quality?

'The,' you say. I'm sorry, but there is no such thing as lag, ghosting or blurring in my experience.

[papajohn4]

Hey thanks a lot all of you for the responses :P As I understand from most of you, it will not affect game performance and additionally in some games I will notice improved quality...the thing is that IPS monitors now have difference of 50-60 euro comparing on TN-panels and I am going to buy a monitor either way (I ll give this to my brother because his monitor broken and he only use pc for internet..), so 50-60 euro seems fair for a new technology with improved color quality unless it causes problem to performance and thats why I asked :P

although about game performance I also read this :

Input lag is felt, the response time is seen. As such - Input lag is completely irrelevant for watching movies for example. Refresh rate however is completely unimportant for general purpose computer use (browsing, writing documents, even photowork). But both matter for faster paced games

hm..because I don't get it , I ll try with an example. In wow I feel the combat paced, for example when I press Shield Slam immediately I see my character to do Shield Slam, the very same time I press it. In Rift from the other hand I have a feel that when I press a button it takes a little, very little until I see the action, at least the animation gives me that sense..lotro is even more worse. So when we say imput lag this is what we mean? For example if the imput lag is 0,6 and I press Shield Slam that mean that I see the animation after 0,6 seconds? Because this will affect me for sure...Or we mean 0,6 milisecond? For example I usually play on 70-80ms so with 0,6 imput lag I will typically play on 76-86?because this will not affect me

Of the games I have played using my IPS screen, I can honestly say that these improve the best when it comes to visuals with an IPS screen:
Battlefield 3, BFBC2, Call of Duty games (mainly because of the contrast thing), Dirt 3, Crysis 2, Just Cause 2, The Witcher 2, WoW.
Some with medium impact: Bulletstorm, Dragon Age I&II, GTA IV (with enhanced graphics mind), Hard Reset, HoN, Mass Effect 1&2, Oblivion and Skyrim, Rage.
Close to no impact: FEAR 3, Far Cry 2

Thanks :P it seems you have tested your panel a lot in a big variety of games!I ll keep that list and I will try to play some of them you mentioned you ve seen the most impact

EDIT : I found this for the monitor I am interested http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/...htm#gaming..it says about motion blur in a test..I suppose in order to see this it needs something very fast to happen, like rogue shadowstep or Killing spree for example? Or this test is too professional that a gamer will never notice about motion Blur?

Well I found the answer for imput lag :P it seems it will not affect me at all

The input lag of the U2312HM was incredibly low, and in fact the lowest we have ever seen from a TFT display. There was practically no delay at all with most measurements showing 0ms lag compared with the CRT. There was an occasional lag of up to 10ms but over many measurements we had an average lag of only 0.6ms. This was lower than the already very good U2311H (10.3ms) and the new Dell U2412M (9.4ms). Excellent work here from Dell to bring lag down to such a low level. This will present no problem, even to high end gamers.

[Deleted]

In wow I feel the combat paced, for example when I press Shield Slam immediately I see my character to do Shield Slam, the very same time I press it. In Rift from the other hand I have a feel that when I press a button it takes a little, very little until I see the action, at least the animation gives me that sense..lotro is even more worse. So when we say imput lag this is what we mean?

Your examples are in an online game - which means you also have to factor in the time it takes for the game server to acknowledge that you've fired a command, and send it back to your client. What you're describing is network lag.

Input lag on a monitor refers strictly to the time it takes from when your computer has generated and sent an image - to the monitor beginning the process of displaying it. This process isn't instant, as the monitor has to process it and apply various filters and 'enhancements' to it. Usually however, the chips employed in standard monitors are simple and fast enough so that this value is impossible to humanly detect - and requires expensive high speed camera equipment to measure. Its when you deal in 2560x1440 or higher resolution monitors that you might need to start watching this value. The U2711 for example has an average input lag of 30ms (~2 frames), and the U3011 upwards 50 (~4 frames).

The big killer with input lag in games is that it can make it harder to accurately navigate the mouse - because it doesn't respond as quickly as you like. If the delay is very large, it can cause problems in games that require accurate tracking.

[papajohn4]

I got it m8 :P thanks. I understand that game server take part in this and I understood how imput lag works. Although in my example again lets take it to a chronical sequence.

1) I press the button for spell X
2) Game Server respond to me and say it is ok I can execute this spell.
3) My character makes the spell and the animation of it

So in this scenario, when my computer start to generate this animation in order to send it to the Monitor? 1 - the time I press the button or 2-the time server sent me the ok?2 it makes more sense btw, but nevertheless I think that still if the process of displaying spell x it has some delay (imput lag) then theoretically imput lag adds to network lag right? I need x time to get response from game server and y time for the process of display..so what I "feel" as time between my button press and when I see the spell in the game is x+y right?

except if my computer begin the process of displaying it the time I press the button without waiting the permission of the server..in this case we talk about two different times that doesn't affect each other and of course the imput lag will be less harm. But I don't think it happens this way because what if the computer has done the process to display the spell but the server respond no(no mana,rage,silenced,stun,e.t.c.)?

or my computer generate the process, then wait for server response, and then send the image to monitor?In this case still imput lag, as you described it, "add" to the time I "feel/see" between button press and Spell execution because imput lag starts to count the time my computer have send the image to the monitor and ends when my monitor display the image.

[Asera]

It's not just the pallettes of games that show stronger on IPS screens due to the better gamut they have.

Viewing angle is better on an IPS screen, reducing colour distortion between areas on the screen - even when looking directly at it. Pixel pitch is usually better, which improves image quality (hence why Dell calls their screens UltraSharp, to an extent). IPS screens over 24" usually have 2560px wide resolutions, and according to a friend of mine that just recently got one of the 30" IPS screens, anti-aliasing is almost unnecessary at that resolution. Note that's words from a friend of mine, don't take them to heart.

[Skelly]

IPS screens over 24" usually have 2560px wide resolutions, and according to a friend of mine that just recently got one of the 30" IPS screens, anti-aliasing is almost unnecessary at that resolution.

Yep. Having more pixels to actually fill in is much much better than having your GPU work overtime to try to smooth out a limited number of pixels.

[iPluto]

Dell ultrasharp monitors are amazing and have high durability. I've had mine for since 06 and it has never given me any trouble. Once ivy bridge comes out i will get a 2711 though. Basically if you play alot of fps games competitively then you shouldn't be considering ips panels but for everyone else who has the budget its worth it.

[mafao]

It's not just the pallettes of games that show stronger on IPS screens due to the better gamut they have.

Viewing angle is better on an IPS screen, reducing colour distortion between areas on the screen - even when looking directly at it. Pixel pitch is usually better, which improves image quality (hence why Dell calls their screens UltraSharp, to an extent). IPS screens over 24" usually have 2560px wide resolutions, and according to a friend of mine that just recently got one of the 30" IPS screens, anti-aliasing is almost unnecessary at that resolution. Note that's words from a friend of mine, don't take them to heart.

I can confirm that (using a 27" iMac with 1440p resolution).

[Elim Garak]

Gamers who are not graphics/photo/video-enthusiasts don't need IPS displays. If you want one and have spare money - fine, buy it. But you really do not need it.

[papajohn4]

Basically if you play alot of fps games competitively then you shouldn't be considering ips panels but for everyone else who has the budget its worth it.

FPS is the only games I don't play :P

Gamers who are not graphics/photo/video-enthusiasts don't need IPS displays. If you want one and have spare money - fine, buy it. But you really do not need it.

hm..but if you get those graphics and visuals improves without impact in your game performance with an extra 60 euro? Basically I love better graphics and I would buy monitor either way..the concerns I had for IPS was about game performance but it is ok now :P

Yep. Having more pixels to actually fill in is much much better than having your GPU work overtime to try to smooth out a limited number of pixels.

I am confused here . Don't you need stronger graphic card to play in larger resolution?Or you mean that if you have a very strong card it will perform better in larger resolution IPS panel?

[Elim Garak]

hm..but if you get those graphics and visuals improves without impact in your game performance with an extra 60 euro?

If you want it - why not? But you better check for yourself if there's really that big of a difference in visual quality. Games wise - IPS are overrated.