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  1. #1
    Pit Lord Martinussen's Avatar
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    Downs syndrome and abortions.

    What do you thin about the two? Here in Denmark there have been some quite heated discussions, about if its ok to have an abortion just because the child will have downs.

    Statistics show us that the amount of people with downs in denmark is decreasing so fast that we'll soon have gotten rid of them all.

    Personaly i think its ok to chose not to have a child for that reason. You'll have to be giving alot more of your time devoted to tha child. You might have to quit your job to take care of your kid.

    You'll have to do so much more to take care of them compared to normal children. Even when they get older, teenager and and sometimes adult, you'll have to help them.

    I wouldn't have a child if they had downs. I want my kid to be smart and independant as soon as they are able to. Now im not saying that someone with downs wont be able to, but the chances are far smaller then a normal kid. But i dont want a kid to be holding me back in life. When me and my brothers got about 13 years old, we could easily be alone home for a night if one of our older brother(s) would stay home just to be sure. now that wer're all 14 or older, we stay home alone every now and then with no problems. Our parents dont need to worry and can go out to dinners or parties with friends if they want to. if one or more of us had downs they would not be able to. they would either be stuck him with us or would have to pay some random person they didnt know to do so.

    A little to the same side, if a couple, married or just a couple, are gonna have a child which will be having downs, who should decide if there should be an abortion? the girl, the guy or both? imo the girl should, but if the guy dont want it, she should by no means force him to have any contact with the child.

    what are your thoughts?
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  2. #2
    "Son, you are inconvenient...into the blender!"
    "Nnnuuuuuuu"

  3. #3
    The Patient Moosedrool's Avatar
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    I think this topic is wrong for this forum. You should know better than to start a discussion about these topics on a video game forum.


  4. #4
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TradewindNQ View Post
    "Son, you are inconvenient...into the blender!"
    "Nnnuuuuuuu"
    You've completely missed the point. Recent research from Cambridge has proven that people in a vegetative state are conscious and aware of the surroundings, therefore Downs Syndrome affected people are. Therefore, being trapped in a body where you can't do everything and then face social torture for being "different", could be seen as not worth it - as in, it alleviates suffering before it begins.
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    Oh shut the fuck up you spack cunt.

  5. #5
    Brewmaster insmek's Avatar
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    It's always going to be a touchy subject, but I think the decision to give birth is one that should only by made by the mother, no matter what type of child she's giving birth to.

    If, after having gotten pregnant, my wife had decided that she didn't wish to give birth I would've supported her decision. It's not my body, so it's not my call to make.
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  6. #6
    Scarab Lord Kathandira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    You've completely missed the point. Recent research from Cambridge has proven that people in a vegetative state are conscious and aware of the surroundings, therefore Downs Syndrome affected people are. Therefore, being trapped in a body where you can't do everything and then face social torture for being "different", could be seen as not worth it - as in, it alleviates suffering before it begins.
    Funny this topic has arisen, the other day i heard on the radio news that there is a new blood test that can tell quite early if your child will be born with Downs. Personally i'm all for it. We have the medical technology to start altering the worlds DNA and basically create a healthier future, we should be using it.

    ---------- Post added 2011-11-28 at 09:29 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by lazymangaka View Post
    It's always going to be a touchy subject, but I think the decision to give birth is one that should only by made by the mother, no matter what type of child she's giving birth to.

    If, after having gotten pregnant, my wife had decided that she didn't wish to give birth I would've supported her decision. It's not my body, so it's not my call to make.
    This is also true, a man's point of view on this topic is relatively insignificant. Myself being a man can give an opinion, but i can never take action on it since it is not my choice nor my body. Though i do support the decision of abortion in such a case.
    Last edited by Kathandira; 2011-11-28 at 09:29 PM.

  7. #7
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    Funny this topic has arisen, the other day i heard on the radio news that there is a new blood test that can tell quite early if your child will be born with Downs. Personally i'm all for it. We have the medical technology to start altering the words DNA and basically create a healthier future, we should be using it.
    As someone who wants to work in Pharmaceuticals and/or Biochemistry once I (go to) and leave university, I am all for this as well. I don't agree with any tampering other than what is required to give someone a good quality of life. If you find this interesting, you'll love how some scientists have added 2 more DNA bases into E. Coli - P and Z, making for 6 DNA bases, and they seem to be reproducing fine and being the little assholes they normally are.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    Oh shut the fuck up you spack cunt.

  8. #8
    It's a sensitive topic when referring to children with mental disabilities or social dysfunction, but really I think this depends on a number of factors. How soon can they tell that the child will have Downs Syndrome? Most people will not have an abortion after a certain point, seeing the unborn fetus as having developed to a point where it is a child rather than just a conglomeration of quickly growing and reproducing cells.

    If I had a special needs child, I don't know how I would cope with it. I'm not saying this to be hateful to all the other parents who manage this, just the opposite. I respect them and am surprised that they can continue to go about their lives happily knowing their child will never really be able to accomplish what other people can, or experience life as a real adult.

    It would probably depend on how my wife/girlfriend/the mother of my child felt, and how strongly I felt about her. If we talked about it (and it'd take a long time) and decided to keep the child and work together, I would hang in there and (hopefully) love the child as much as I would any other fully-functional child. If I decided not to be a part of the child's life but she wanted to keep it, I'd still pay child support and visit her from time to time. If we decided to put it up for adoption, I'd probably always wonder how the child was doing.

    That said, I'm not against abortion either. If we decided it would be too difficult for the child to grow up with such disabilities, we'd probably go through with it.

    Strong topic, and hopefully you won't get too many trolls.

  9. #9
    Dreadlord Alcomo's Avatar
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    That would be a tough one. I am not against abortions if it has a very good reason attached to it (ie. a rape victim). I have to say that I think downs syndrome would be a good reason. Who wants their child to grow up unable to live a normal life? They will never get to work a full time job, have a family, live on their own, drive a car etc. Not to mention they will either be under your care for the rest of their lives or they will be in a home. There is also a much higher mortality rate for people with Downs. I don't think its fair to the child that they should have to live a life like that. My GF and I had both of our children tested before they were born and we both agreed that if the results came back positive we would abort.

    Also anyone who thinks they choice is only due to 'inconvenience' likely has no children, because if they did they would want the best for their child and would understand the choice imo. They wouldn't want their child to live a horrible life like that.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    You've completely missed the point. Recent research from Cambridge has proven that people in a vegetative state are conscious and aware of the surroundings, therefore Downs Syndrome affected people are. Therefore, being trapped in a body where you can't do everything and then face social torture for being "different", could be seen as not worth it - as in, it alleviates suffering before it begins.
    I think you've missed the point. That point being; I'm completely and utterly ambivalent to the topic at hand and that my only interaction (prior to this post) was making fun of it.

    Topics like this should be avoided like kryptonite.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    You've completely missed the point. Recent research from Cambridge has proven that people in a vegetative state are conscious and aware of the surroundings, therefore Downs Syndrome affected people probably are. Therefore, being trapped in a body where you can't do everything and then face social torture for being "different", could be seen as not worth it - as in, it alleviates suffering before it begins.

    My mother is an occupational therapist for the school district and busts her ass working a heavy caseload much of whom are downs syndrome children. If you told her, any of their parents, or the children themselves that sorry instead of trying to do our best to make your lives better and worthwhile(which they a perfectly capable of being) we were just going to kill you before it starts because helping you is really really hard is disgusting. I've spent my life meeting and interacting with downs syndrome children and children who suffer from other disabilities and every day I get a story of the clever things they say just like any child. In the case of downs most of them are disabled, not utterly and completely crippled human beings. If you're going to scare people by painting a picture of social torture and being trapped in a useless body don't forget the other side, especially with one that is relatively treatable like Downs.

    To me it's sort of like the problem they have in china now with a lopsided M:F ratio. There's obvious social and cultural reasons to desire a boy there over a girl but I think most of us would agree that aborting until you get the gender you want isn't a morally upright choice. Same thing here, at what level of mental disorder or disability does the line get drawn?
    Last edited by shimerra; 2011-11-28 at 09:47 PM.
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  12. #12
    Dreadlord Alcomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TradewindNQ View Post
    I think you've missed the point. That point being; I'm completely and utterly ambivalent to the topic at hand and that my only interaction (prior to this post) was making fun of it.

    Topics like this should be avoided like kryptonite.
    Well then avoid it or post something constructive. Its a very good topic and one that a lot of people deal with.

  13. #13
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TradewindNQ View Post
    I think you've missed the point. That point being; I'm completely and utterly ambivalent to the topic at hand and that my only interaction (prior to this post) was making fun of it.

    Topics like this should be avoided like kryptonite.
    I'm not one to cry "Offensive" at everything because I believe that people need to toughen the feck up, but suggesting that you'd blend a child because it was an inconvenience, is rather offensive. The reasoning behind it runs far deeper and your comment was very crass.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    Oh shut the fuck up you spack cunt.

  14. #14
    Epic! Lilcheeks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moosedrool View Post
    I think this topic is wrong for this forum. You should know better than to start a discussion about these topics on a video game forum.
    Perfect for the forum. Its an off topic forum.

    Personally I'm pro abortion. I don't believe a fetus is a person, I don't believe you're killing a soul or anything else along those lines. I believe that people aren't always capable of making the best decisions for themselves and sometimes an abortion is the only way to prevent a 'negative investment' from being carried out.

  15. #15
    Pandaren Monk Shamburger's Avatar
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    Birth defects are always a factor when having children.

    I'm pro-choice, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with the reason why. For example I don't think it's right to force a rape victim to have "the" child. But I also don't agree with aborting a child if they have DS for example.

    I am definitely bias though. My mom had 3 boys (we're 19, 22 and 24 presently, I'm the oldest). My 22 year old brother has Downs. Was it harder on my parents raising Evan (brother)? Obviously. He didn't even leave the hospital until he was about 2. It was "hard" enough to have my excuse for a father to leave when we were 9, 7 and 5. It was very hard while he was younger. You can't imagine the stuff we went through as a family, but in my opinion Evan is the glue that held the rest of us together. My Mother managed to raise us into productive members of society. All of us.

    Was it worth it? Definitely. Evan leads almost the same life as anyone else. He can feed and clothe himself. He's got a job, friends, can get himself wherever he needs to go via PT.

    It actually saddens me that people think the way of the OP, although I can understand where the through process comes from.

  16. #16
    Mechagnome select20's Avatar
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    The only reason abortion is legal is because our society prefers the easy way out. Right and wrong are no longer relevant, but the easier, more convenient path is now "Right". Same thing is happening with many issues out there. Compromising right and wrong for what is easiest, feels best, or more convenient and we see what it's doing to our country. (My 2 cents).

    Ok, I don't necesarily think it's right. I think all it will serve to do is cripple us. Some of the biggest advancements the world has known have come from people with mental disabilities. Einstein is a perfect example. Either way, if a woman wants to have an abortion it's up to her regardless. You can't use Rape as a justification. studies show that less than .2% of rape victims actually become pregnant and now more woman die doing abortions than giving birth.

    But, like I said, right and wrong will never win out against a society that only cares about easy, convenient and feel-good. So flame me if you want, I have come to expect it when standing for what it "Right".
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    I'm not one to cry "Offensive" at everything because I believe that people need to toughen the feck up, but suggesting that you'd blend a child because it was an inconvenience, is rather offensive. The reasoning behind it runs far deeper and your comment was very crass.
    Not as crass as you might think. Considering you and one other already decided that it was a criticism against those who make that choice...rather than seeing that it could also be mocking people who think that is just a matter of inconvenience and not quality of life that leads people to do so.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by select20 View Post
    The only reason abortion is legal is because our society prefers the easy way out. Right and wrong are no longer relevant, but the easier, more convenient path is now "Right". Same thing is happening with many issues out there. Compromising right and wrong for what is easiest, feels best, or more convenient and we see what it's doing to our country. (My 2 cents).

    Ok, I don't necesarily think it's right. I think all it will serve to do is cripple us. Some of the biggest advancements the world has known have come from people with mental disabilities. Einstein is a perfect example. Either way, if a woman wants to have an abortion it's up to her regardless. You can't use Rape as a justification. studies show that less than .2% of rape victims actually become pregnant and now more woman die doing abortions than giving birth.

    But, like I said, right and wrong will never win out against a society that only cares about easy, convenient and feel-good. So flame me if you want, I have come to expect it when standing for what it "Right".
    You're assuming your definition of right or wrong. So yeah I bet its pretty clear and easy when you're assuming your presence.

  19. #19
    Stood in the Fire Jimmybob117's Avatar
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    Can see this topic going badly :/

    In my opinion, I'm very divided on it. I wouldn't mind having a child with downs, cause after all, they're still human. How much different will they be? Sure I'll have to care for them more than I may have to do with a non disabled child, but I'm sure I'll deal with it.

    On the other hand, I don't know how I'd be able to cope with it. My life would change, due to having to be there to care for them. I'm just not sure I could cope with it.

    Now down to abortions. I personally don't have much of an issue with abortions. They should be thought about long and hard (hehe, a sex joke within talking about sex, such a joker:P) with the doctor, and I also think there are some situations where it shouldn't be used. "But I've decided I don't want the baby anymore!", sorry, shoulda thought about it a bit harder when you didn't use a rubber then. Essentially you're killing a life because you didn't think it through. Now, if you were raped or something, that's a different story. I also personally think having a child with a disability falls into this aswell. You can't help that they have a disability (Unless you know that you're a carrier or have a disability yourself), and you might just be unable to cope with it. Wether that be finacialy or mentally or whatever. Then I think it would be acceptable aswell, but it still should be thought hard about.

    Edit:Suppose I should also say that I've never truly had an experience with some that has a mental disability, wether that be a sibling or a friend. I've had encounters with people with disability, but never really for a prolonged period, like seeing them everyday.
    Last edited by Jimmybob117; 2011-11-28 at 09:53 PM.
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  20. #20
    Pandaren Monk Shamburger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by select20 View Post
    The only reason abortion is legal is because our society prefers the easy way out. Right and wrong are no longer relevant, but the easier, more convenient path is now "Right". Same thing is happening with many issues out there. Compromising right and wrong for what is easiest, feels best, or more convenient and we see what it's doing to our country. (My 2 cents).

    Ok, I don't necesarily think it's right. I think all it will serve to do is cripple us. Some of the biggest advancements the world has known have come from people with mental disabilities. Einstein is a perfect example. Either way, if a woman wants to have an abortion it's up to her regardless. You can't use Rape as a justification. studies show that less than .2% of rape victims actually become pregnant and now more woman die doing abortions than giving birth.

    But, like I said, right and wrong will never win out against a society that only cares about easy, convenient and feel-good. So flame me if you want, I have come to expect it when standing for what it "Right".
    I agree with you but I'd just point out that "right" and "wrong" are perceptions and by no means concrete.

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