why Hiroshima or Nagasaki?

[Elohel]

Slightly off-topic but it annoys me to no fucking end when someone complains about the decision to nuke by the US. If you think that was a messed up decision, you really ought to read some history of Japan's actions in China before and during WWII, you'll likely lose your sympathy.

[FunknDrunk]

they wanted to destroy the factories

[toxicdinos]

this is a purely historical discussion and no US bashing thread.

the question is why did US bomb these two cities and not somewhere else? the Japanese still had about 2 million infantry on the mainland so instead of nuking 2 cities why didn't the US nuke army bases or important military ports?

Because as everyone already said, they wanted to intimidate Japan and basically destroy their confidence. Japan came into the war very confident because the last place that could be attacked was Japan, everyone else would have to go through Germany, Hungary, Austria and so on. This of course did not prevent them from being targeted but it made it more difficult when they were the ones providing supplies and the allies couldn't get them.

Japan did everything wrong when attacking Pearl Harbor, they did not officially proclaimed war before the attack. Whatever people likes to believe it or not, wars have rules. You can stay neutral if you have the army to support it, or you can declare war/surrender right away, but you just don't straight out attack, you first officially declare war and then allow that person to either accept or surrender. Japan attacked Pearl Harbor before declaring war/letting the US surrender or declare true neutrality, which means they wouldn't be sending supplies to the UK anymore. Because Japan didn't do this, the Americans were not prepared for the attacked and there for their solders were basically wiped out without even a chance to fight back. It was a massacre that was truly and completely unfair for the US and even though Pearl Harbor was a military base civilians also lived there.

America did it as revenge and to show Japan that their bitch move was not going to intimidate them or that it weakened their spirits. Do I agree with this? To be honest? Yes, Japan deserved it, do I believe bombing them twice was fair? No, not really but Japan was a stubborn mule and it still is, then they enjoy changing everything and acting like everyone else is the heartless monster or the ones that did something wrong to them, just take China as an example.

---------- Post added 2011-11-28 at 01:10 AM ----------

Actually American text books do say that they knew about the attacks, but do your books mention Britin directly bombing german civilians?

No one was innocent in the war.

or how the UK bombed France when France was at the edge of surrounding so the German army wouldn't get their supplies, that's always fun to read about.

Everyone was a back stabbing bitch in WW2, that is why it is so popular.

[logintime]

Slightly off-topic but it annoys me to no fucking end when someone complains about the decision to nuke by the US. If you think that was a messed up decision, you really ought to read some history of Japan's actions in China before and during WWII, you'll likely lose your sympathy.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

[Nefastus]

Well, the reason I heard once was that the japanese were fierce fighters and the war would be even more bloody if they didnt use the bombs to force a surrender. USA would need to enter japan and the losses would be massive for both sides. If thats the true reason I dont know but for sure no one wants to lose more troops if they can avoid it.

[markos82]

You are showing nothing that is not already known. Fact is that no one ever thought Japan had the balls to come at us. Especially with everything going on elsewhere in the world. Even today these reports would have been scoffed at and that is even with the more advance technology making this plot far more feasible.

You have proven nothing other than the fact that US officials were wrong in scoffing at these reports. But then again, hindsight is 20/20 isn't it?

It has nothing to do with what country I am in as compared to what I know if I care to look. Thinking it does only proves your bias.

Man when top advisors are telling that attack is immanent and nobody will listen then something is wrong. You know war ( not on a home soil ) is a boost to economy. US economy was in a downfall so the best option was the join war in Europe. US had imposed embargo on Japanese trade.

They were not wrong!!! How can they be when they known that attack will happen, when top secret services informed your leaders about an impending attack? You dont have any doubt that they knew about the attack and did nothing?

How can i be bias? Im looking at the big picture. US economy is falling apart, congress is against the war ( thats not eben on your soil ) + voters are against it. For a year you are receiving warnings that attack will happen and no one is doing anything to prevent it. Then Japan attacks destroying your entire fleet + killing 5000 soldiers. Then congress is for joining the war, voters are and you economy is getting better.

[Deleted]

I "love" how many people in this thread speak of countries as if they were only a bunch of generals and politicians, when the truth is totally different.

[toxicdinos]

Two wrongs do not make a right.

But was goes around comes around. Karma is a bitch.

[Catta]

You are assuming I meant they were told to just go fly into things. Stop assuming. Once again, go do some research on the subject.

then enlighten me, what exactly is your reason for saying there is no similarity between a society who encourages people to give their lives for the country and another to give their lives for the emperor... They believed it to be a dishonor to get captured, yet still some chose to let themselves be captured. Do you talk about the ground war with japan where a US soldier could walk up to a japanese soldier who had "surrendered" who then proceeded to gun them down before being taken down themselves? Well that could have something to do with the US often executing those who surrendered and had to be bribed by the officers with candy and ice cream no less to make them take prisoners...

[Evolixe]

Soldiers fighting soldiers is not the same as civillians getting vaporised in a mushroom cloud with no warning or true purpose.

When said like that it sure does sound criminal :/

It probebly was. There was a purpose though, but i don't think that purpose justified the act.

[Catta]

But was goes around comes around. Karma is a bitch.

again, this indifference to the nuclear bombing of two cities is not frowned upon by many people - if i now mention that you had 9/11 coming and that: karma is a bitch - then suddenly its something different...

i am ofcourse just being hypothetical

[Speaknoevil]

This is just a bunch of hippy talk.

A world where the majority of people are without hate and distrust will be a easy target for the minority who are still distrusting and hateful.

That's not idyllic, that's just being far too gullible and naive.

It's Buddhist actually.

And who is being gullible, I don't think it's possible... it's what I wish the world was like.

Regardless, you prove my point that those two negative qualities dominate the majority of the human race.

"Life is suffering."

But was goes around comes around. Karma is a bitch.

Karma is only a bitch if you are.

[markos82]

Actually American text books do say that they knew about the attacks, but do your books mention Britin directly bombing german civilians?

No one was innocent in the war.

Well Germany started the war by invading Poland in a blitzkrieg. But did you know German military also invaded other counties before declaration of war? Did you know that Stalin and Hitler had an deal to divide Europe after the war. BUt Hitler decided to stab Stalin in back?

[glycerethe]

Simply put, the americans knew they couldn't have stopped the Japanese army in a proper way, so they had to go for this back door, even though they did warn the japanese what is about to come, unlike the japanese who raided pearl harbour without warning.

At the end of the day, you just have to blame the japanese themselves for not being able to defend their own citizens.

[Sathers]

The military/government != civilians. I've been seeing a lot of "Japan had it coming to them" and that no country was innocent in this war. While Japan may have performed heinous actions upon other countries it does not mean that the civilians had anything to do with it. Eliminating thousands of innocent lives that did not directly influence any war decisions or otherwise is completely unjust and immoral, even it was to scare them into submission. It's like another country bombing New York now giving the excuse "Well, they had it coming to them: they destroyed two large Japanese cities, and invaded Iraq for oil, after all".

[LordVada]

I was actually just watching something on this the other day. As stated on page one, at least one (if not both) were in fact primary military targets. The Japanese had facilities set up to manufacture bombs, ammunition, etc. That being said, there was a lot of collateral damage.

I think the bigger object was to demoralize the people of japan to pressure their government. People seem to forget that it was a society where suicide bombing was perfectly acceptable (and considered honorable). Up until the end there were still hundreds, if not thousands of kamikaze pilots still being trained to target US carriers and battleships.

Another note, the calculated loss of US military life to invade Japan was estimated to be upwards of one million. To be perfectly logical, 70-150,000 lives is less than that, and considering Japan was the instigator in the war.....hell, considering it was war in the first place, it seems like a gamble that paid off well.


Another note: You'll notice that Japan and the US have fairly well ties to this day. Yes, we (the US) held them in a military chokehold for quite some time, and still limit them, however its been a pretty fruitful relationship for both sides. Japan's technology benefits us, and our buying of their technology benefits them. And hey, what would life be without anime?

[Wells]

Simply put, the americans knew they couldn't have stopped the Japanese army in a proper way, so they had to go for this back door, even though they did warn the japanese what is about to come, unlike the japanese who raided pearl harbour without warning.

At the end of the day, you just have to blame the japanese themselves for not being able to defend their own citizens.

The US could have absolutely won an invasion of Japan. Not sure why you think otherwise. The war was over by the time the bombs were dropped.

The Japanese had every intention of delivering a declaration of war before Pearl Harbor but failed to do so due to traffic.

[Jumpieboi]

Meaningless considering how much collateral damage was done.

Estimates that were given to the president were that of atleast a million american troops lives, if we indeed did invade Japan.

The loss to Japan would be much much higher as well.

Collateral damage in fact was avoided by using the nuclear bombs.

[toxicdinos]

again, this indifference to the nuclear bombing of two cities is not frowned upon by many people - if i now mention that you had 9/11 coming and that: karma is a bitch - then suddenly its something different...

If you expect for something different then you are sadly mistaken because is the truth. For every action there is an equal or greater reaction, it is a simple fact of LIFE. Whatever you find it morally wrong or not it does not mean it shouldn't have happen or people shouldn't have seen it coming. The US was being an idiot for getting into a war that did not concern them, same with the UK. Terrorist attacks do not happen just because, there has to be a reason for the group to hate you they don't just pick a random country and decide to throw planes at them but the reaction was the US army attacking them in return and being assholes to them, what exactly did they expect? For the US to sit and be joyful? No, but now they bitch about the US being heartless when the US this time is at least attempting not to hurt civilians.

[Epiphanes]

Soldiers fighting soldiers is not the same as civillians getting vaporised in a mushroom cloud with no warning or true purpose.
Both were large cities with some military importance. Neither was irreplacable to the military. There were picked because the casualties would be devastating so they would stand a chance of scaring Japan into surrender.

USA are assholes for dropping the bomb. They had their reasoning and rationalle that allowed them to carry through with it. It was a gray decision where thousands of families were killed. Nobody in the states thought about that, the whole population cheered it as another military victory. Oh well, history is written by the victors.

If history was written by the victor's as you put it, then how do you explain the wealth of knowledge regarding the topic that highlights every view and opinion imaginable with backing evidence and theories?

Oh, you're referring to global media hype. Of course the media is going to spew war propaganda! Why not?