why Hiroshima or Nagasaki?

[smrund]

*cough* American and British concentration camps *cough* Yes they did exist *cough*

We're aware, but we're still talking grapes and grapefruit. German concentration camps were hard labor, torture, sick experiment and death camps. American camps, which were mainly in California and Hawaii, were interment camps. There's an important difference. While we may have destroyed lives in uprooting people and shoving them in a cage, we weren't gassing them or pulling out their intestines while they were alive and unmedicated.

[Defengar]

No, the bombs weren't justified. They were the result of the USA being really pissed for having their ships bombed in a safe zone and their forces taken by surprise and destroyed in an area that wasn't a battlefield. They wanted to punch Japan fast and hard.

The USA could have made a demonstration of the nuclear bomb by blowing up an uninhabited island and making sure the japs know about it, but they were raging at that moment and wanted to see Japan bleed.

Dude, the pearl harbor rage had kind of been replaced by "fucking Japanese all over these fucking islands makin this war move slow as fuck" rage.

[The Ogdru Jahad]

Most countries have a dirt / blood on their hands, just look at what happened to the Native Americans. It really is silly to go back and forth pointing out all the crimes each contry has commited.

What I don't like is when people try to justify those atrocities.

The mass murder of civilians can never be justified in my eyes, no matter which country is responsible or the method used.

Totally understandable, and I agree! But I will definitely point out to someone their faults when they blindly follow something without question.

[The King in Yellow]

Dude, the pearl harbor rage had kind of been replaced by "fucking Japanese all over these fucking islands makin this war move slow as fuck" rage.

Sounds like the best rage.... ever...

@Defengar and Purlina

depending on the school, the Japanese history books actually tell the second world war in a rather large detail, mostly like most of the western European countries. They rather see it as; a time not to be forgotten so the same mistake can't happen again. And I doubt Germany goes over their history that quickly, because most Germans I know, know a lot and I mean REALLY a lot about their country's history, especially in 1900 - 1945 and onwards.

[The Ogdru Jahad]

*cough* American and British concentration camps *cough* Yes they did exist *cough*

Still... IN MY OPINION the bombs were not justified, but necessary, let me also tell you, Nagasaki was not much of a military target, Hiroshima was.

Okinawa says hello, it still happened.

The Germans also tortured their prisoners to an extend, murdered them, let their children dig their parent's graves, etc. both countries did the most inhumane things.



Now that's just racist... then again, quite a large portion of your post is.

---------- Post added 2011-11-28 at 11:24 PM ----------



No it wasn't, Japan wanted to "free" the colonies of Asian cultures from the "Western Oppressors" aka: Imperialism.

The war in the pacific however started with the Sino-Japan war.... something which both nations have been fighting for thousands of years.... you might really want to open a history book sometimes...



Even if they did, the message would have been too late and the second bomb would have still been dropped. Japan should have forced Emperor Hirohito to surrender before the bombs were even considered.

While you both conflict eachother a tad bit...you both had the two most sensible posts in this entire thread props!

[kaji]

how can people sit here and get mad at USA for that

JAPAN ATTACKED THE US FIRST
You dont want to get bombed then dont start shit? Crazy concept I know

Excuse me ?
Time to eat an Iraqui nuke then ?
Yes we know they have tons of weapons of mass destruction and had to be destroyed. no ?

Both were military targets.

Yes just as much as Disney Land would be.

I like all these high-handed patriotic comments, trying to explain genocide.
So genocide is right if it contributes to a certain goal ?
Looking at Americas history its paved with blood and genocide has always been a great tool of Purification, starting with the American Natives.
Also i believe America had a great tradition of slavery followed by apartheid till late 20th century.

Of course the winner takes it all and writes the history-books.
Of course all of it was done in the name of righteousness.
And of course America is great.

Truman was a massmurderer and as such he should be remembered just like Hitler and Stalin.

You should start opening your eyes.

[smrund]

Excuse me ?
Time to eat an Iraqui nuke then ?
Yes we know they have tons of weapons of mass destruction and had to be destroyed. no ?



Yes just as much as Disney Land would be.

I like all these high-handed patriotic comments, trying to explain genocide.
So genocide is right if it contributes to a certain goal ?
Looking at Americas history its paved with blood and genocide has always been a great tool of Purification, starting with the American Natives.
Also i believe America had a great tradition of slavery followed by apartheid till late 20th century.

Of course the winner takes it all and writes the history-books.
Of course all of it was done in the name of righteousness.
And of course America is great.

Truman was a massmurderer and as such he should be remembered just like Hitler and Stalin.

You should start opening your eyes.

You should too, radical rewriting of history in ANY direction is going to get you blindsided by reality in a heartbeat.

[Defengar]

The "personality of Japan" thing is a racist meme from WWII propaganda that somehow stuck. It is not and was never true. The idea that the Japanese people were some unique brand of bloodthirsty, ultra-nationalistic savages is bogus. Their soldiers surrendered in the same fashion European soldiers did when beaten. The difference was minor at best. The cases of soldiers or civilians fighting to the death and refusing to ever surrender were overblown and the same thing happened sometimes in Europe.

Russia had agreed not to attack Japan. We knew that they were going to break this pact and invade Manchuria (a Japanese territory) but chose to drop the first bomb THREE DAYS before Russia invaded, and the second the same day, instead of simply waiting three days for the invasion to happen (which it was going to either way) to see how Japan would react. Even if the chances were only 10% that this would cause Japan to surrender, it is fundamentally *evil* (not just wrong, or immoral, but EVIL) to rush the dropping of the bomb at that point.

Even if it was GRANTED that Russia would somehow occupy the entire nation of Japan mere moments after taking Manchuria (which is ludicrous) it is STILL fundamentally evil to slaughter hundreds of thousands of people simply to prevent another nation from taking Japan, no matter what that nation is.

30k Japanese on Iwo jima. 219 surrender... rest either die fighting or commit suicide (including the commanders)... Yeah... not overblown or anything...

They did have a self superior imperialistic mind set. They invaded other nations (which is why we made he trade blockade, which goth them pissed at us) to plunder all their shit and they killed hundreds of thousands in medical experiments because they considered Chinese test subjects sub human. They referred to them as monkeys, even on official forms.

The fear wasn`t Russia occupying ALL of Japan, it was them occupying part of it, which would have made the cold war a whole lot more complicated (Germany all over again) and Russia would have been a lot more ruthless than us. When we invaded we would have dealt with any citizen that attacked us and tried to preserve the nations infrastructure as much as possible. The Russians on the other hand would have done exactly what they did in Germany, meaning, as soon as civilians started shooting at them they would have started slaughtering whole cities just so they would nt have to deal with insurgents. North Japan would have been a desolate wasteland. And, while South Japan (occupied by USA) would have slowly recovered, north Japan (occupied by USSR) would have suffered the same shitty fate as eastern Europe...

[Therdin]

Excuse me ?
Time to eat an Iraqui nuke then ?
Yes we know they have tons of weapons of mass destruction and had to be destroyed. no ?





Yes just as much as Disney Land would be.

I like all these high-handed patriotic comments, trying to explain genocide.
So genocide is right if it contributes to a certain goal ?
Looking at Americas history its paved with blood and genocide has always been a great tool of Purification, starting with the American Natives.
Also i believe America had a great tradition of slavery followed by apartheid till late 20th century.

Of course the winner takes it all and writes the history-books.
Of course all of it was done in the name of righteousness.
And of course America is great.

Truman was a massmurderer and as such he should be remembered just like Hitler and Stalin.

You should start opening your eyes.

Name 1 country who's history isn't soaked in blood and genocide

[The King in Yellow]

Dear Jibjabb...

I wish people stopped thinking Japan attacked first, Japan responded on a series of provocations, cultural insults (on a diplomatic level, even directed to the Emperor himself) and an attack which the USA said was "an accident" even recent new studies have concluded this.

Even a documentary which ended with the words from a Japanese fighter pilot: "We never fought to win, we fought to defend ourselves"

Pearl Harbour, although a stupid decision.... was Japan's answer on these events.

It is like Kaji already said, history has been written by the victors, this tradition goes as far back as Rome and Egypt.

The USA has always been "The knight in the shiny white armour"

@ Therdin

Antartica, Switzerland (Atleast I think) Liechtenstein... Luxembourg erm... Monaco?

[kaji]

You should too, radical rewriting of history in ANY direction is going to get you blindsided by reality in a heartbeat.

I see, now i cant exactly point my finger at the part where i have rewritten history. U might help me out here.

[Maharishi]

Despite several warnings through the thread, people continue to post emotional attacks on other nations. Closing this out.