NO sockets on S11 weapons...Unfair?

[micho]

More wasted resources by blizzard then, who cares about unrated/low rated content, at 2200 plus hell even 1800 plus gear starts to normalise anyway and all people have practically the same gear. PvP gear isn't my problem it is OP PvE gear being allowed in PvP

---------- Post added 2011-11-29 at 12:02 AM ----------



Think this is more along the line of what they are doing i can't remember the blue post or find it :/

can you even get past 1400 with pve gear?

[Deleted]

can you even get past 1400 with pve gear?

More or less referring to Tarecgosa, Unheeded Warning Pre-nerf, DMC:Tsunami, Shard of Woe, 391 weapons before 2200 and Heroic Sulfuras after. Items which are so good it's worth dropping the resilience to get. Frighteningly, many of these are items which are only obtained through hardcore PvE play. Fine, have your PvE weapons, trinkets; but make sure they remain PvE items, no item that a pure PvPer can't get should not be better than what the best that person can get, in PvP.

Would PvE'rs complain they were forced into PvP because many of the rewards from it were their BiS?

However, missing gem slots, aren't they made up for in the itemisation of the item? Exceptions to the Dreadfire Drape.

[rzy]

can you even get past 1400 with pve gear?

Did i say FULL PVE gear? I was referring to off-peices (Rings/Neck/Trinkets ect)

[Cactrot]

Did i say FULL PVE gear? I was referring to off-peices (Rings/Neck/Trinkets ect)

Did he say FULL PVE gear? The answer to the question I just asked is no.
The answer to the question he asked is "Hell freaking yes."

[Rhaide]

Let's do a quick comparison.

Pve (Hand of Morchok, 1h axe)
658.7dps
188 str
312 stam
red socket (bonus 10str)
119 mastery
139 crit

560 main stats (after gem and socket bonus)
258 secondary stats

Pvp (Cataclysmic Gladiator's Hacker, 1h axe)
658.7dps
208 str
312 stam
139 resil
139 crit

520 main stats (-40 compared to pve)
278 secondary stats (+20 compared to pve)



This shows us that the difference between pve and pvp gear is NEGLIGIBLE. Same dps, SLIGHTLY more stats. I can't believe people are actually crying over this. Jeez.

If you want to go into heroic gear, and iLevel 410 pvp gear, then the stats skew EVEN LESS. And a iLevel 410 pvp weapon is easier to get than a heroic deathwing kill is likely to be. So you're likely going to have a better weapon than a pve'er. Stop crying.


Pve (Morningstar of Heroic Will, Heroic 1h mace)
743.5 dps
215 agi
343 stam
red socket (10 agi)
160 expertise
127 haste

618 main stats
287 secondary stats

Pvp (Cataclysmic Gladiator's Pummeler, iLevel 410 pvp 1h mace)
743.5 dps
235 agi
353 stam
157 crit
157 resil

588 main stats (-30 compared to pve)
314 secondary stats (+27 compared to pve)

[rzy]

More or less referring to Tarecgosa, Unheeded Warning Pre-nerf, DMC:Tsunami, Shard of Woe, 391 weapons before 2200 and Heroic Sulfuras after. Items which are so good it's worth dropping the resilience to get. Frighteningly, many of these are items which are only obtained through hardcore PvE play. Fine, have your PvE weapons, trinkets; but make sure they remain PvE items, no item that a pure PvPer can't get should not be better than what the best that person can get, in PvP.

Would PvE'rs complain they were forced into PvP because many of the rewards from it were their BiS?

However, missing gem slots, aren't they made up for in the itemisation of the item? Exceptions to the Dreadfire Drape.

They haven't had to been before so i guess we'll see, so far the weapons have the same stats i think except PvE has added sockets/Procs, the HC STR trinket will be very OP this season imo, and the sword that spawns a tentacle.

[Deleted]

Pve and Pvp do not have to be equal. Thats like comparing apples and oranges and finding oranges are unfair.

[rzy]

Pve and Pvp do not have to be equal. Thats like comparing apples and oranges and finding oranges are unfair.

Except when PvE stuff is REQUIRED to be top of PvP, thats like making apples have to be orange.

[Stanton Biston]

For the sake of my own morbid curiosity, what's the point of the fist waving?

Yes, the PvE trinkets and weapons have silly, potentially game breaking procs and such. If any of them are too powerful or scale too far, then they'll get nerfed. Taragosa is getting nerfed in 4.3, and the rogue legendary requires 30 hits before a chance for the proc which eats up the buff. And sub finishers aren't particularly scary.

But really- So what? What if the PvE weapons are better/more interesting? What's the goal of this thread? To whine?

Kinda pointless. But maybe I'm wrong.

[rzy]

For the sake of my own morbid curiosity, what's the point of the fist waving?

Yes, the PvE trinkets and weapons have silly, potentially game breaking procs and such. If any of them are too powerful or scale too far, then they'll get nerfed. Taragosa is getting nerfed in 4.3, and the rogue legendary requires 30 hits before a chance for the proc which eats up the buff. And sub finishers aren't particularly scary.

But really- So what? What if the PvE weapons are better/more interesting? What's the goal of this thread? To whine?

Kinda pointless. But maybe I'm wrong.

The fact they are better isn't the problem, they fact the PvP counterparts are always overshadowed is a horrendous game design its like making PvE players get 2200 to get their BiS weapon. I'm not saying don't make amazing weapons for PvE, just make equal ones for PvP or dont allow OP Raid items in PvP, The point of this thread was to see if anyone else thought the same as me (WoW is taking a step backwards in the PvP/PvE separation, thus forcing PvP players to PvE to get their BiS gear) And sub being able to use finishers with no combo point requirement would be quite annoying as they could just refresh all the stuff they need or add burst.

[Rhaide]

They haven't had to been before so i guess we'll see, so far the weapons have the same stats i think except PvE has added sockets/Procs, the HC STR trinket will be very OP this season imo, and the sword that spawns a tentacle.

I suggest you read my post, the one directly above yours.

[Oscassey]

Would PvE'rs complain they were forced into PvP because many of the rewards from it were their BiS?

You haven't raided Hyjal and Black Temple when they were current during Burning Crusade have you? I remember season 2 and season 3 weapons being used by many PvE rogues (including myself) before they put a rating requirements on it because they were easier to get (and were often better) than PvE weapons. These were the "good old time" of two drops per boss in 25-man.

[shadowboy]

Right so pretty much ALL of the T12 weapons have sockets on, and none of the pvp ones do even the T2 ones.
This is taking wow's PvP back to "I need to PvE in order to PvP" again imo, especially with some of the really strong Procs and Trinkets being released in this patch.

Please no trolling/flaming.

So do you guys think its is FAIR?

15 out of 61 weapons is "pretty much ALL of them?" Hmm. Looks like I need to go back to school and learn more math.

[rzy]

I suggest you read my post, the one directly above yours.

i did and i re posted, that weapon comparison was pretty bad, as no many people use one handed axes.
2H str weapons trinkets and daggers will ruin this season.

[Rhaide]

The fact they are better isn't the problem, they fact the PvP counterparts are always overshadowed is a horrendous game design its like making PvE players get 2200 to get their BiS weapon. I'm not saying don't make amazing weapons for PvE, just make equal ones for PvP or dont allow OP Raid items in PvP, The point of this thread was to see if anyone else thought the same as me (WoW is taking a step backwards in the PvP/PvE separation, thus forcing PvP players to PvE to get their BiS gear) And sub being able to use finishers with no combo point requirement would be quite annoying as they could just refresh all the stuff they need or add burst.

WoW is first and foremost a pve game, not to diminish the pvp aspect, but it's true. When you see advertisements for WoW, do you see giant dragons fighting, undead hordes rising from the earth, or demons lighting the ground ablaze as they stride forward, or do you see a warrior colossus smashing a warlock into paste? PvE deserves better rewards, that's my opinion. PvE being the main aspect of the game is the fact.

As far as legendaries go, I agree with you there, they shouldn't be allowed in pvp. That's silly.

[rzy]

15 out of 61 weapons is "pretty much ALL of them?" Hmm. Looks like I need to go back to school and learn more math.

Haven't looked at loot tables properly just the weapons i will be wanting to use, most of which have sockets or an absurd proc.

---------- Post added 2011-11-29 at 01:02 AM ----------

WoW is first and foremost a pve game, not to diminish the pvp aspect, but it's true. When you see advertisements for WoW, do you see giant dragons fighting, undead hordes rising from the earth, or demons lighting the ground ablaze as they stride forward, or do you see a warrior colossus smashing a warlock into paste? PvE deserves better rewards, that's my opinion. PvE being the main aspect of the game is the fact.

As far as legendaries go, I agree with you there, they shouldn't be allowed in pvp. That's silly.

I haven't for one moment said PvE doesn't deserve amazing rewards, BUT the op weapons and such just shouldn't be allowed in arena or they should make cool PvP weapons, i really don't want to have to raid to get a BiS weapon for my Warrior, rogue or warlock.

[Rhaide]

i did and i re posted, that weapon comparison was pretty bad, as no many people use one handed axes.
2H str weapons trinkets and daggers will ruin this season.

Ok, let's try a 2h weapon.

Pve (Experimental Specimen Slicer, heroic 2h axe from deathwing)
1002.5 dps
529 str
824 stam
red socket (10 str bonus)
362 crit
347 mastery

1413 main stats (after gem and socket bonus)
709 secondary stats

Pvp (Cataclysmic Gladiator's Decapitator, iLevel 410 2h axe)
1002.5 dps
549 str
824 stam
366 crit
366 resil

1373 main stats (-40 compared to pve)
732 secondary stats (+23 compared to pve)

Still negligible. Very, VERY little difference. You can't claim to know how the trinkets and weapon procs will 'break' pvp, so that's out too; we know nothing about proc percentages or things like how strong the summoned tentacles are, so saying they are OP is premature at best, ignorant at worst. As far as the legendary daggers go, yeah, I agree there, those should be out.

[Deleted]

You haven't raided Hyjal and Black Temple when they were current during Burning Crusade have you? I remember season 2 and season 3 weapons being used by many PvE rogues (including myself) before they put a rating requirements on it because they were easier to get (and were often better) than PvE weapons. These were the "good old time" of two drops per boss in 25-man.

No I haven't, but a situation would be more like: If you want to raid heroic ragnaros(The best of the best), you need a 2200+ weapon (Obtained from being very good, but not the best) before you're considered. It's a little silly.

[Rhaide]

No I haven't, but a situation would be more like: If you want to raid heroic ragnaros(The best of the best), you need a 2200+ weapon (Obtained from being very good, but not the best) before you're considered. It's a little silly.

I say play with people who are skilled, not people who won't consider you unless you have that pve weapon with 17 more stats on it.

[Deleted]

I say play with people who are skilled, not people who won't consider you unless you have that pve weapon with 17 more stats on it.

The difference between a Shard of Woe pre-nerf and a 384 proc/use trinket is absolutely enormous. I mean if you want to play at the very upper end, where you'd expect the other people to be grabbing any gear advantage they can get, you'll need to level the field.