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  1. #21
    Herald of the Titans Ravenblade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borador View Post
    Communism can work, the whole world just has to get on board. Make it happen.
    Unfortunately humans have this nasty behaviour to occasionally look out for themselves only and make use of others in order to improve their social position. But whilst this behaviour could be suppressed in a small group through means of oppression and reasoning it becomes exceedingly difficult the bigger the group becomes. It doesn't take the size of a village to pervert the whole idea, if it doesn't work on such a tiny scale then it is highly unlikely to work on world scale.
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  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Diurdi View Post
    Except I'm not happy if my style of living stays like it is now and everyone elses decline. I am however happy if my living standard increases, regardless of how everyone elses does.
    If that's how economy actually worked, the employers salary would increase relatively to the profits of a corporation. The problem is, by spreading the wealth that everyone in the corporation worked for, the corporation does not generate more profits and thus is not as successful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diurdi View Post
    Sure, but I understood he meant the economy in general. The part of the economy where you gain at the expense of others is small.
    I think with all the lay offs, it's quite clear that gaining at the price of others is exactly what is happening. Taking jobs to China is exactly equivalent to becoming richer at the expense of others.

    ---------- Post added 2011-11-29 at 06:29 PM ----------

    People just get in the way of having more stuff.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya420 View Post
    If that's how economy actually worked, the employers salary would increase relatively to the profits of a corporation. The problem is, by spreading the wealth that everyone in the corporation worked for, the corporation does not generate more profits and thus is not as successful.
    Sigh, I'm not gonna go down the rabbit hole with you again. But no, employers salaries increase relative to the productivity of the employees as well as the scarcity of the employees.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Diurdi View Post
    We enjoy cheap goods at the expense of poor suckers who can't use the wealth we give them for their goods because they have an oppressive government that takes away the dollars we give them?
    How much of the dollar an hour that we give the labor in China, goes to Chines government? But, yeah, the more jobs go to China, the more cheap goods we will need, because people without jobs can't afford to get anything better. Heck, people might even resort to pepper spraying each other because they can't afford something, but for one day a year.

  5. #25
    Epic! Lilcheeks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya420 View Post
    People just get in the way of having more stuff.
    You said communism is working for China. I'm showing you why it isn't so great. But you're agreeing with me I guess... people are the reason why it doesn't work.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Diurdi View Post
    Sigh, I'm not gonna go down the rabbit hole with you again. But no, employers salaries increase relative to the productivity of the employees as well as the scarcity of the employees.
    How much do folks in China make, relative to their production? The projected true 20% unemployment is not enough demand?

    ---------- Post added 2011-11-29 at 06:35 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Lilcheeks View Post
    You said communism is working for China. I'm showing you why it isn't so great. But you're agreeing with me I guess... people are the reason why it doesn't work.
    Oh no, as far as what measures economic growth, it's winning. The fact that people are not doing well does not matter. They are doing so poorly, relative to us, is because we are unwilling to do the same jobs for the same price. It's the same reason why the jobs are leaving for China, which doesn't really care about the poor living standards of China or the deteriorating living conditions of the USA.
    Last edited by Felya420; 2011-11-29 at 06:36 PM.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya420 View Post
    How much do folks in China make, relative to their production?
    I just said that China is not even close to a market economy and that the money we give them is taken from them by their Central Bank. China is not a good example.

    You could ask, how much do folks in Thailand make, relative to their production. I would answer that they make roughly the market value of their labour - which inturn is affected by their productivity.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Diurdi View Post
    I just said that China is not even close to a market economy and that the money we give them is taken from them by their Central Bank. China is not a good example.
    China is not a good example of what? It's not a market economy, which kinda is exclaimed by being communist. But, it is corporations that are part of a market economy, that are taking advantage of the cheap labor costs. China could be any economic system you can imagine, the fact that it can provide such cheap labor, is what makes it so attractive. The fact that jobs are going to a communist nation, is the result of a free market dictating that the most effective way to make money is to get cheap labor from a country that does not have a free market. Because in the end, all that maters is profit, regardless who you are dealing with or how poorly your workers are treated. It's kinda like getting rich at the expense of others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diurdi View Post
    You could ask, how much do folks in Thailand make, relative to their production. I would answer that they make roughly the market value of their labour - which inturn is affected by their productivity.
    Which I guess is part of the reason why Thailand does not get as many jobs from the free market as does China. Maybe if it was more slanted, they would get more jobs.

  9. #29
    Epic! Lilcheeks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya420 View Post
    The fact that people are not doing well does not matter.
    Wtf are we talking about then? That fact DOES matter... it matters greatly. I don't want to live in a country where the people don't live well! You're telling me the country is doing well economically but the people aren't benefiting. Isn't that what people are rioting about everywhere as the 99%?(way oversimplified, I know) I live in the US where I live comfortably and things are supposedly better than in China for the people who live there.

  10. #30
    Sorry Felya but I'm not going down the rabbit hole of whatever argument your trying to make, as it sure as hell makes no sense. Not interested in arguing arbitrary anti-capitalist rhetoric.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilcheeks View Post
    Wtf are we talking about then? That fact DOES matter... it matters greatly. I don't want to live in a country where the people don't live well! You're telling me the country is doing well economically but the people aren't benefiting. Isn't that what people are rioting about everywhere as the 99%?(way oversimplified, I know) I live in the US where I live comfortably and things are supposedly better than in China for the people who live there.
    As far as what measures economic growth, it's winning. The fact that people are not doing well does not matter. They are doing so poorly, relative to us, is because we are unwilling to do the same jobs for the same price. It's the same reason why the jobs are leaving for China, which doesn't really care about the poor living standards of China or the deteriorating living conditions of the USA.

    In other words, you do not mater when it comes to accumulating 'Computer Digits'.

  12. #32
    Epic! Lilcheeks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya420 View Post
    As far as what measures economic growth, it's winning. The fact that people are not doing well does not matter. They are doing so poorly, relative to us, is because we are unwilling to do the same jobs for the same price. It's the same reason why the jobs are leaving for China, which doesn't really care about the poor living standards of China or the deteriorating living conditions of the USA.

    In other words, you do not mater when it comes to accumulating 'Computer Digits'.
    Then I'm happy I don't "mater". I'll take doing well and not "matering" to not doing well and "matering".

    <Infracted> Grammer policing is against forum rules.
    Last edited by Dacien; 2011-11-29 at 07:15 PM.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Diurdi View Post
    Sorry Felya but I'm not going down the rabbit hole of whatever argument your trying to make, as it sure as hell makes no sense. Not interested in arguing arbitrary anti-capitalist rhetoric.
    No, you are interested in arguing arbitrarily, that's why you started posting here. I know, it's harder to be right when there is an opposing point of view. I personally don't like arguing with people who agree with me. It's boring and I'm not here to be bored, but the result of it.

    You are just not willing to go down a rabbit hole... I gotcha... Don't take the red pill either...

  14. #34
    Bloodsail Admiral Aurust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borador View Post
    Communism can work, the whole world just has to get on board. Make it happen.

    I absolutely love...just love when people make this post....Why because i can tell them that the most well versed theorists on communism/marxism that have ever lived and had the resources of an entire state already tried it and failed. Yet some god damn hippies think that they can make it work....lol

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilcheeks View Post
    Then I'm happy I don't "mater". I'll take doing well and not "matering" to not doing well and "matering".
    I have a G73JH laptop that sometimes skips a button press. You can see me spell it right, earlier in the same post. You on the other hand, decided to pick on a typo instead of having a point. I guess, my bad?

  16. #36
    China is, like, totally 100% not communist at all. They're under a vary harsh kind of capitalism. Which works, obviously.

    Also, communism can't work. I don't want to share. It can't work if I don't share. You must kill me. You gonna kill me ? Go on and try to build your communist dictatorship by killing those who aren't OK. You'll make friends. Oh, and I might try to defend myself and stuff like that.

    I also kinda like that idea of the "wealth-cap". Everyone is SOOOOO gonna work harder just to get money they have to give ! That's totally not an idea a 5 years old could completely annihilate in 5 minutes.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Aurust View Post
    I absolutely love...just love when people make this post....Why because i can tell them that the most well versed theorists on communism/marxism that have ever lived and had the resources of an entire state already tried it and failed. Yet some god damn hippies think that they can make it work....lol
    How much does US owe China? Who's failing?

  18. #38
    Epic! Lilcheeks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya420 View Post
    I have a G73JH laptop that sometimes skips a button press. You can see me spell it right, earlier in the same post. You on the other hand, decided to pick on a typo instead of having a point. I guess, my bad?
    Are you insulting my spelling or are you commenting on communism?

    Seriously though, You'd rather be poor and know that your country is profiting rather than be well off?

    How did communism work for other countries?
    Last edited by Lilcheeks; 2011-11-29 at 07:08 PM.

  19. #39
    Actually, often the accumulation of wealth is the result of implementation of more efficiency, which turns it into a negative sum game. For example you have Amazon, it comes in and creates some jobs, but due to efficiency it eliminates 100x as many jobs as it creates due to efficiency gains. This results in the profit from Amazon being consolidated in the hands of a few people who own the majority of the company. What is the bigger part of the 'pie', Jeff Bezos having 10 billion dollars, or 1 million more people being employed?
    Most people would rather die than think, and most people do. -Bertrand Russell
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  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilcheeks View Post
    Are you insulting my spelling or are you commenting on communism?
    Apparently, feeding a troll... My bad...

    Mod Warning: If you feel someone is trolling, report and move on. Don't post about it.
    Last edited by Dacien; 2011-11-29 at 07:13 PM.

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