What makes me wonder

[Olgierd]

Don't take this for a troll.

I played in the recent beta weekend. A lot. Enough in fact to get a pretty good taste of the game.

Graphics are pretty good. I'm not terribly fond of the stylized art direction, but it's all pretty well tied together.
Cutscenes and quests are good.
Voiceovers are good.
The companion option is cool and opens up possibilities.

But at the heart, as I was afraid, it's WoW with an SW skin slapped on top of it. That's pretty well acknowledged at this point, starting with the silly "WoW jump" animation and all the way to rooted "I hack you, you chop me" combat, mobs that loiter around and stand stock-still, and other hallmarks of traditional MMO.

It ain't broke, so don't fix it, I hear you cry. Anything but the freaking pandas, you say. Star Wars is a tarnished, but mighty franchise and that alone will carry the day.

RIFT also didn't fix what wasn't broke. It is a whole new world with visuals updated for the modern age, more class customization and macro freedom than you can shake a stick at, excellent dev team and content that is coming fast and furious.

Is it an MMO revolution? No. It's a prettier, slicker-looking, tuned-up WoW in marginally different setting.
After a weekend hands-on with SWTOR, I can say that it is also a prettier, slicker-looking, way tuned up WoW in a radically different setting.

Both games count on content and setting, not the new and exciting mechanics to win. In YOUR opinion, will just that be enough? Are you prepared to "kill 20 boars and collect 10 boar livers" knowing that the underlying mechanics of your boar killing will be the same (and likely have the same hangups) as the good old stomping ground, World of Warcraft?

[Prag]

"You press buttons in this MMO too! Just like WoW! This will not beat WoW because WoW made you press buttons first!"

Here's what SW:ToR has that WoW doesn't:

A reason to log in outside of Raid Times.
A quest experience that doesn't suck.
Graphics that don't suck.


Why do (some) people always look for something final and concrete? It's another game in a genre that's older than WoW, and despite your glaring favoritism, will do extremely well.

Also, Rift sucked because the game sucked. It had no story, it just threw piles of shit at you hoping that you mistook a few piles here and there as a bed of roses.

[akaTheDude]

Here's what SW:ToR has that WoW doesn't:

A reason to log in outside of Raid Times.
A quest experience that doesn't suck.
Graphics that don't suck.

And OP I am not sure if you have played many MMOs or not, but ALL MMOS have the same "feel" its the content that makes them different.

[Nellise]

Here's what SW:ToR has that WoW doesn't:

A reason to log in outside of Raid Times.

I've been level 50 for a while now. What's this reason? TOR's endgame is exactly the same as WoW with a few less pvp options. I don't have a problem with that and have actually been enjoying myself, but there isn't anything special there.

[Prag]

I've been level 50 for a while now. What's this reason? TOR's endgame is exactly the same as WoW with a few less pvp options. I don't have a problem with that and have actually been enjoying myself, but there isn't anything special there.

Because you enjoy the game? I don't know, do you really need someone to tell you why you should enjoy something?

For me it's because I enjoy everything about Star Wars (except some of the TV shows/mini-series/cartoon movies).

[Nellise]

Because you enjoy the game? I don't know, do you really need someone to tell you why you should enjoy something?

For me it's because I enjoy everything about Star Wars (except some of the TV shows/mini-series/cartoon movies).

Sorry, thought you meant there was some specific in game activity that was different than raiding that would keep you playing when not raiding that WoW doesn't have.

[gherkin]

WoW was not the first to do quests, but it was the first to do them in bulk. Prior to this, the MMO experience was grindy.

SWTOR is not the first to do quests in bulk, but it is the first to put them in an epic story with dialogue choices and quest resolutions that alter your future quests (Albeit slightly).

Strip that away from both and you still have auto attack, special abilities, loot, and stats. WoW could have been EQ with a Warcraft skin, but it's not. SWTOR could be WoW with a Star Wars skin, but it's not.

Perhaps WoW found the best way to do it and the Bioware team said "We investigated and the best we can come up with is the same as WoW's, so we're going with it." They're not copying, they did their due diligence, and they discovered that the best option was the one already implemented by a competitor. That's not copying, that's good business.

[Legion]

Is it an MMO revolution? No. It's a prettier, slicker-looking, tuned-up WoW in marginally different setting.
After a weekend hands-on with SWTOR, I can say that it is also a prettier, slicker-looking, way tuned up WoW in a radically different setting.

Is it an MMO revolution? No. Guild Wars 2 looks to be revolutionary, but that doesn't appeal to me, honestly.
Is it wow with sparkly make-up? No way. It's different in so many ways, yet somewhat similar in others. It's EXACTLY what I wanted.

[Prag]

Sorry, thought you meant there was some specific in game activity that was different than raiding that would keep you playing when not raiding that WoW doesn't have.

No, I don't think there's anything else a game could do. You have PvE, PvP and Grinding (Quests, Dailies, Rep, Materials). In my opinion (as the OP asked), SWTOR, even in Beta form, does a better job of holding my attention across all 3 elements. Sorry that I didn't word my first reply more accurately.

WoW was not the first to do quests, but it was the first to do them in bulk. Prior to this, the MMO experience was grindy.

SWTOR is not the first to do quests in bulk, but it is the first to put them in an epic story with dialogue choices and quest resolutions that alter your future quests (Albeit slightly).

Strip that away from both and you still have auto attack, special abilities, loot, and stats. WoW could have been EQ with a Warcraft skin, but it's not. SWTOR could be WoW with a Star Wars skin, but it's not.

Perhaps WoW found the best way to do it and the Bioware team said "We investigated and the best we can come up with is the same as WoW's, so we're going with it." They're not copying, they did their due diligence, and they discovered that the best option was the one already implemented by a competitor. That's not copying, that's good business.

Good response!

[nyoan]

WoW was not the first to do quests, but it was the first to do them in bulk. Prior to this, the MMO experience was grindy.

SWTOR is not the first to do quests in bulk, but it is the first to put them in an epic story with dialogue choices and quest resolutions that alter your future quests (Albeit slightly).

Strip that away from both and you still have auto attack, special abilities, loot, and stats. WoW could have been EQ with a Warcraft skin, but it's not. SWTOR could be WoW with a Star Wars skin, but it's not.

Perhaps WoW found the best way to do it and the Bioware team said "We investigated and the best we can come up with is the same as WoW's, so we're going with it." They're not copying, they did their due diligence, and they discovered that the best option was the one already implemented by a competitor. That's not copying, that's good business.

Well said.

[Nihilim]

Don't take this for a troll.

I played in the recent beta weekend. A lot. Enough in fact to get a pretty good taste of the game.

Graphics are pretty good. I'm not terribly fond of the stylized art direction, but it's all pretty well tied together.
Cutscenes and quests are good.
Voiceovers are good.
The companion option is cool and opens up possibilities.

But at the heart, as I was afraid, it's WoW with an SW skin slapped on top of it. That's pretty well acknowledged at this point, starting with the silly "WoW jump" animation and all the way to rooted "I hack you, you chop me" combat, mobs that loiter around and stand stock-still, and other hallmarks of traditional MMO.

It ain't broke, so don't fix it, I hear you cry. Anything but the freaking pandas, you say. Star Wars is a tarnished, but mighty franchise and that alone will carry the day.

RIFT also didn't fix what wasn't broke. It is a whole new world with visuals updated for the modern age, more class customization and macro freedom than you can shake a stick at, excellent dev team and content that is coming fast and furious.

Is it an MMO revolution? No. It's a prettier, slicker-looking, tuned-up WoW in marginally different setting.
After a weekend hands-on with SWTOR, I can say that it is also a prettier, slicker-looking, way tuned up WoW in a radically different setting.

Both games count on content and setting, not the new and exciting mechanics to win. In YOUR opinion, will just that be enough? Are you prepared to "kill 20 boars and collect 10 boar livers" knowing that the underlying mechanics of your boar killing will be the same (and likely have the same hangups) as the good old stomping ground, World of Warcraft?

WoW wasn't the first with the mechanics, and won't be the last. Seriously. Educate yourself.

[Eggoman]

I haven't found a thread that the OP touches on that doesn't follow the typical architecture of a WoW in Space thread. That architecture can basically broken down like this:

To Put it in Perspective::
Apple = Fruit
Orange = Fruit
Orange = Apple with a different skin color

A familiar sounding argument but inserted the apple/orange analogy to show the logical fallacy:

I ate a bad apples for 6 years.
An apple is a fruit.
No I don't like that Orange because its just another apple.

To Make it more obvious:
WoW has quests
SWTOR has quests
SWTOR = WoW in Space

So to the original poster, you need to look a little deeper into the two games because right now it sounds like you just don't like fruit in general.

[Prag]

I love that article Nihilim. That guy illustrates my thoughts so much better than I ever could.

[unholytestament]

There seems to be a lot of people that think WoW is the first MMO ever, or the one to do everything common to MMOs these days. What WoW did was take a lot of what was popular in other MMOs (mostly Everquest) and streamline the everliving daylights out of it, and they went from there. And it also seems like a lot of people didn't play the KOTOR games either, because a lot of these things were in those games too.

So I have to ask the OP, what were you really expecting to be different going into this? Advanced enemy AI with work and sleep schedules? Reflex based gameplay?

[Dreavus]

Don't take this for a troll.

I played in the recent beta weekend. A lot. Enough in fact to get a pretty good taste of the game.

Graphics are pretty good. I'm not terribly fond of the stylized art direction, but it's all pretty well tied together.
Cutscenes and quests are good.
Voiceovers are good.
The companion option is cool and opens up possibilities.

But at the heart, as I was afraid, it's WoW with an SW skin slapped on top of it. That's pretty well acknowledged at this point, starting with the silly "WoW jump" animation and all the way to rooted "I hack you, you chop me" combat, mobs that loiter around and stand stock-still, and other hallmarks of traditional MMO.

It ain't broke, so don't fix it, I hear you cry. Anything but the freaking pandas, you say. Star Wars is a tarnished, but mighty franchise and that alone will carry the day.

RIFT also didn't fix what wasn't broke. It is a whole new world with visuals updated for the modern age, more class customization and macro freedom than you can shake a stick at, excellent dev team and content that is coming fast and furious.

Is it an MMO revolution? No. It's a prettier, slicker-looking, tuned-up WoW in marginally different setting.
After a weekend hands-on with SWTOR, I can say that it is also a prettier, slicker-looking, way tuned up WoW in a radically different setting.

Both games count on content and setting, not the new and exciting mechanics to win. In YOUR opinion, will just that be enough? Are you prepared to "kill 20 boars and collect 10 boar livers" knowing that the underlying mechanics of your boar killing will be the same (and likely have the same hangups) as the good old stomping ground, World of Warcraft?

Just a second. So you got a good taste of the game, but not enough taste to differentiate SW:TOR's combat from WoW's? You got a good taste of the game, but not enough to differentiate Open World mob mechanics between WoW's and SW:TOR's? It's not a re-skinned WoW. It's SW:TOR. You have to start looking at it that way, and no other way, unless you want to be labeled naive. It doesn't have to be a revolution to be its own game.

Lots of games count on content and setting, and not exciting mechanics. FPS Franchises anyone? You don't see me calling it Call of Star Wars. Why? Because it's SW:TOR. Not a WoW, CoD, Rift, MXo, DCUo, UO, AoC, SWG, re-skin. I'm prepared to kill 20 Republic Soldiers and retrieve vital strategic information from them, yes. I'm not prepared to kill 20 womp rats because some lady needs to make soup. Why am I not prepared for that? Because that's not how the story setting goes for SW:TOR's questing. That's why. I don't care what you say, you're trolling, especially if you say their combat, questing, and AI are the same. Get out.

---------- Post added 2011-11-30 at 12:10 AM ----------

WoW was not the first to do quests, but it was the first to do them in bulk. Prior to this, the MMO experience was grindy.

SWTOR is not the first to do quests in bulk, but it is the first to put them in an epic story with dialogue choices and quest resolutions that alter your future quests (Albeit slightly).

Strip that away from both and you still have auto attack, special abilities, loot, and stats. WoW could have been EQ with a Warcraft skin, but it's not. SWTOR could be WoW with a Star Wars skin, but it's not.

Perhaps WoW found the best way to do it and the Bioware team said "We investigated and the best we can come up with is the same as WoW's, so we're going with it." They're not copying, they did their due diligence, and they discovered that the best option was the one already implemented by a competitor. That's not copying, that's good business.

There is no auto attack in SW:TOR.

[Semihage]

I don't know about end game but it's possible it will end up being group-oriented again (which is usually the end game for pretty much all MMO including EQ as well.. and yes.. there is this game call EQ that existed before WoW).

But it could be about space combat (hopefully they continue to polish it post release) or the ever expanding class storyline/side quests.. One thing I dislike about WoW is it became way way too group oriented and the story just moves way too slow since everyone is following the same plot.

TOR seems to have a framework to change that. The fact that you have a galaxy map means that it's easier for Bioware to add new planet for people to explore.. It's harder for WoW to accomplish this because they are stuck with the map of Azeroth and drastically changing an existing area can end up breaking leveling quests.

[Dreavus]

I don't know about end game but it's possible it will end up being group-oriented again (which is usually the end game for pretty much all MMO including EQ as well.. and yes.. there is this game call EQ that existed before WoW).

But it could be about space combat (hopefully they continue to polish it post release) or the ever expanding class storyline/side quests.. One thing I dislike about WoW is it became way way too group oriented and the story just moves way too slow since everyone is following the same plot.

TOR seems to have a framework to change that. The fact that you have a galaxy map means that it's easier for Bioware to add new planet for people to explore.. It's harder for WoW to accomplish this because they are stuck with the map of Azeroth and drastically changing an existing area can end up breaking leveling quests.

There's group and solo oriented end-game for players. There's actually an entire planet dedicated to solo-type end game.

[Uselessrouge]

i play wow since release i play a Hc raiding guild we clear 7/7 hc since a few months so i guess i would not be some casual gamer

BUUUUT i do have to say even after 7 years of wow + other games before
SWTOR DID suprise me ( in a good way ) questing was quite fun , i liked the feeling of new.. flashpoints where strange the first time i was like omg lbalbalbalbalblablaaaaa !!!
then i joined a group 4 guys like surely SW fans.. i had to wait 5 minutes untile we continued so i dicided to read the text a little and acutaly it wasent that bad and i started having fun in that too lol :| i hate RP on wow ^^

i did not think i would like this game but after the WE i am definetly plaing to buy the game ^^


i give SW 1-3 months for me to XP , pve ect

(pvp will fail at first view after spending a few hours in the 3 bg's :| fail desing but ok they can add new ones , balance will be a mather too at the begining i think )

But if they pull it off good they can make a good game !

I do belive it could become something better then just the average mmo you play for 1 month and stop it cause its boring and sux ^^

[Nellise]

There's actually an entire planet dedicated to solo-type end game.

There is? I must've missed it in the time I've been level 50. Or are you playing a different build of the beta? And don't say Ilum if that's what you're thinking of, because it's not.