Demo Shadowbolt or Incinerate

[Dercas]

Last night my guild did 6/8 DS and figured I'd try demo with incinerate filler. I played demo most of FL so I'm very familiar with sb filler as well. Before the patch I was reading it was better to stick with shadowbolt filler, but is it more personal preference? Heres my armory
us*battle*net^wow^en^character^skullcrusher^Eurynomous^advanced
and here's a log from last nights DS
worldoflogs*com^reports^rt-whkyae3u62yz3qbs^sum^damageDone^?s=2760&e=3033
my dps with incinerate seems decent enough so bottom line does it matter if you use SB or Incin for your filler?

Sorry for the links I cant link yet so where there is * put . and where there is ^ put /.

[Jahrastafari]

Are you on an encounter where you're going to have to cast Immolate multiple times on adds? Then you should be running the 3/3 Bane with Shadowbolt filler.

Are you on a Patchwerk-style encounter where you'll find yourself only casting Immolate once? Then you should be running 3/3 Imp Corruption with Incinerate filler.

[roahn the warlock]

Are you on an encounter where you're going to have to cast Immolate multiple times on adds? Then you should be running the 3/3 Bane with Shadowbolt filler.

Are you on a Patchwerk-style encounter where you'll find yourself only casting Immolate once? Then you should be running 3/3 Imp Corruption with Incinerate filler.

think his point is that the differenence is minimal, but IDK, I'm destro again getting a million addons to help manage the clusterfuck of a rotation

[Shadowygoodness]

As of the moment from what I've been able to gather from posts, incinerate filler with 3/3 Imp Corruption is something like 200 dps increase on a Patchwerk-style encounter. Obviously this is not a huge dps increase; I guess we'll have to wait to see if it comes out to more than that, BUT running the incinerate build gimps multi-dotting pretty harshly. The question atm is at what point does the increased dps from 3/3 Imp Corruption and a faster nuke get outwieghed by immolate multi-dotting (i.e. how many adds/how often immolate need be cast). Seeing as we can't respec back and forth in the raid for each encounter, shadowbolt filler is probably the way to go for now b/c of multi-dotting's effectiveness.

[Dercas]

I mean the only fight I can think of so far with multi dotting is the gunship fight. I know the spine with the corruptions but they die so fast it don't matter. So wouldn't the majority of the fights benefit from incinerate spec'd.

[Jahrastafari]

Seeing as we can't respec back and forth in the raid for each encounter, shadowbolt filler is probably the way to go for now b/c of multi-dotting's effectiveness.

Run with a double-Demo setup.

[Dercas]

Ha why didn't I think of that always had affi spec for pvp but running double demo seems logical since demo gear stats can't double over affi or destro anyway.

[Deleted]

Is Incinerate pure win against Shadowbolt, or just when Mwc is replaced and Imp Doom's procs become all efficient ?

[Dercas]

Are there specific trinkets in DS that are going to replace MWC or is any trinket that drops going to be replacing it?

[hfd]

I mean the only fight I can think of so far with multi dotting is the gunship fight. I know the spine with the corruptions but they die so fast it don't matter. So wouldn't the majority of the fights benefit from incinerate spec'd.

[Ericprydz]

I can think of many fights where I casted Immolate on multiple targets throughout the fight. Hagara, Yor'sahj, Warmaster Blackhorn, Madness of Deathwing. I wouldn't count Spine of Deathwing because you afk half the fight anyways.

[Palmz]

If you are keeping with just 1 Demo spec and using your alternate afflic/destro or pvp stick with the Shadowbolt (traditional) spec.

[Gohzerlock]

We'd keep glyph or corrupt on sbolt build still wouldn't we?

[Kildragon]

Is Incinerate pure win against Shadowbolt, or just when Mwc is replaced and Imp Doom's procs become all efficient ?

It only becomes more effective when you don't have to hold your Meta for MWC.

Are there specific trinkets in DS that are going to replace MWC or is any trinket that drops going to be replacing it?

Personally, I've already replaced MWC with DMC:V until I get the new DS trinkets, mainly because MWC still requires pet twisting, especially now, to be fully effective. Save yourself the trouble and simply run with DMC.

I mean the only fight I can think of so far with multi dotting is the gunship fight. I know the spine with the corruptions but they die so fast it don't matter. So wouldn't the majority of the fights benefit from incinerate spec'd.

The only reason the Incin spec is superior (by a whooping 200 DPS) is that you have Immolate on the target at all times. As soon as you drop Immo from the target Incin goes back to being inferior to SB. Especially on multi target fights like Yor'sahj and Spine where you will have to recast immolate many times during the fight, the Incin spec falls behind. Also, the other reason that the Incin spec is stronger on paper is the decreased Meta CD due to faster Incin casts. Any fight where you will have to hold Meta for a burn phase will cause you to lose that benefit. The only fight where the Incin spec is actually superior is on Ultraxxion and even there only by 200 DPS. Stick with the SB spec and do yourself a favor if you need to go Demo, and go Destro/Afflic if you can. Those two specs are superior to Demo on every single fight in DS except for Ultraxxion.

[Palmz]

You don't want to replace MWC until you see more 397 gear (more haste) and you get at least get WoU and Cunning Normal mode trinkets. With my gear It proved to be about 500 dps more with MWC + Cunning over Cunning + Corrupted mind with the right Spell Priorities. MWC is still your 2nd best (WoU 1st) trinket at the early stages of the patch.

[Kildragon]

You don't want to replace MWC until you see more 397 gear (more haste) and you get at least get WoU and Cunning Normal mode trinkets. With my gear It proved to be about 500 dps more with MWC + Cunning over Cunning + Corrupted mind with the right Spell Priorities. MWC is still your 2nd best (WoU 1st) trinket at the early stages of the patch.

If you have VPLC or HVPLC wouldn't you be running with a Cunning + HVPLC set up? And if you don't have HVPLC, just go with DMC:V + Cunning. With the primary reason for MWC (DG) being nerfed to the ground, I feel like VPLC, HVPLC, DMC:V and Cunning are better than MWC. I'm not sure how Corrupted Mind works out, but is the 2900 haste from it not superior to the 1700 Mastery from MWC. Especially since you still need to pet twist and hold Meta for the full benefit from MWC.

Also, are you simming these results or taking personal runs as an example? Because sims aren't exactly accurate, especially for Demo trinkets.

---------- Post added 2011-12-01 at 03:58 PM ----------

I'm also not sure why you would assume we would get much more haste from more gear, since we'll be reforging everything to mastery. Throughout the tier your haste will only go up by a few hundred at most and even in current gear the new trinkets should come out ahead of MWC.

[Palmz]

MWC is still simming strong against Cunning+Corrupted Mind or Cunning+HVPLC. With the mastery bonuses now and the nerfed DG (not nerfed to the ground) it's still showing 500+ dps on my own personally sims. EJ has MWC 2nd ( but in reality 3rd). In raids MWC+Cunning was proven to be better. You are going to gain alot more haste than just 100 from the DS upgrades. Alot of haste/mastery, haste/hit, hit/mastery peices. You'll be dropping crit for haste this patch versus the high crit we had in 4.2. The more haste and once you get WoU will then be enough to surpass MWC.

[angry bastard]

A lot of people seem to be confused right now about Demo specs and pet twisting, so I'll give you the short answers and the reasons:

Until you have more gear, the old 0/31/10 spec is better. Incinerate is better in the Heroic Gear sims because it now SCALES better than Shadowbolt. You'll just have to keep simming as you get better gear until you can see the breakpoint where Incinerate takes over. Right now for example my character has 40dps between Incin filler and SBolt, SBolt being on top still, so I am getting pretty darn close to incinspam.

You will also still be Pet Twisting until you get 4piece, at which point saving shards for the SB:SF Spell Power proc buff is better than using them on soulburning out Felhunter after DS is used.

Hope this helped.

[n0n3]

A lot of people seem to be confused right now about Demo specs and pet twisting, so I'll give you the short answers and the reasons:

Until you have more gear, the old 0/31/10 spec is better. Incinerate is better in the Heroic Gear sims because it now SCALES better than Shadowbolt. You'll just have to keep simming as you get better gear until you can see the breakpoint where Incinerate takes over. Right now for example my character has 40dps between Incin filler and SBolt, SBolt being on top still, so I am getting pretty darn close to incinspam.

You will also still be Pet Twisting until you get 4piece, at which point saving shards for the SB:SF Spell Power proc buff is better than using them on soulburning out Felhunter after DS is used.

Hope this helped.

Any idea at what ilvl or SP the incinerate filler spec becomes worth changing to ?
Imo the old spec might be better for the last 3 fights in Dragon Soul coz there's alot of adds in them and u gotta apply immolate on all of them.

[angry bastard]

No I don't know the exact ilvl, like I said you'll just have to sim your own character as you get more gear.