10man DS normal undertuned?

[Deleted]

People were saying FL was easy too!!!! They went hc and were moaning it was to hard, they wanted NERFS!!!

[Krunsh]

They want as much people beating Deathwing as people beating Kel'thuzad in Naxx at level 80.

Take that as your answer, I guess...

next week you can beat deathwing in the LFR. (not picking a side with that statement.)

[Gilian]

Pretty standart considering at 7/7 heroic chances are most people are rocking almost a 391 ilvl in a ins tuned for 378.

That's the problem everyone is in FL HC gear because it's too easy. Casual guilds killed 6/7 HC FL after nerfs in a week. (It was the same in ICC. After nerfs puggers got BiS items.) So next tier they faceroll through normal mode. Only new players who didn't raid in the previous tier have the 'right' gear for this raid. So normal modes are tuned for noobs or extreme casual players who couldn't get a decent set of gear in months time.
Faceroll is faceroll. If they give away so much gear then they have to tune for it. It's like they want everyone in hardmodes this way which shouldn't be the case. Hardmodes are for experienced raiders and not raiders who just started the previous tier. There is no reason at all to nerf hardmodes since they are there to challenge raiders. If you don't get stuck on a boss then there is no challenge. If it takes you 15 wipes (hardmode) instead of 5 (normal) then it's not a challenge.

---------- Post added 2011-12-01 at 02:43 PM ----------

People were saying FL was easy too!!!! They went hc and were moaning it was to hard, they wanted NERFS!!!

Obviously. You can't go from extremely easy to extremely hard. You need to learn to get there. The gap between normal and hardmode was too big.

[datrillest]

Almost everyone in here complaining about how easy it is haven't done the last two bosses. Last night our 10man group (6/7hc prenerf) finished off madness of deathwing. Almost all of our raiders are in full 391's. That fight is defintly tuned pretty well. even for normal they are mechanics that if u ignore even with the 20% health buff, you'll get one shot & without the proper use of raid cooldowns in the final phase u simply wont survive. Its not the hardest end boss,
but id defintly say most of you should stfu about how easy the first 3 firsts are until you have actually cleared the entire raid, cause im pretty sure most of fail tards wont be clearing 8/8 normals for a few weeks.

[Gilian]

The fights feel pretty comparable to firelands normal last tier. Started last tier at ~360 ilvl, and this tier at ~390ilvl so it was definitely easier than firelands was at launch, but I don't think its too easy for a normal mode. If you think it is undertuned you probably vastly overestimate the skill of the average wow raider.

If you sat and did the bosses on PTR you really have no room to complain how you went in and "one shot" everything. You didn't have to "learn" any mechanics because...get this...you already did it before. So its essentially one shot on FARM CONTENT.

We got LFR for that now, to learn mechanics. So I think they could make normal a little harder so the transition to hardmodes isn't too hard.

---------- Post added 2011-12-01 at 02:52 PM ----------

Almost everyone in here complaining about how easy it is haven't done the last two bosses. Last night our 10man group (6/7hc prenerf) finished off madness of deathwing. Almost all of our raiders are in full 391's. That fight is defintly tuned pretty well. even for normal they are mechanics that if u ignore even with the 20% health buff, you'll get one shot & without the proper use of raid cooldowns in the final phase u simply wont survive. Its not the hardest end boss,
but id defintly say most of you should stfu about how easy the first 3 firsts are until you have actually cleared the entire raid, cause im pretty sure most of fail tards wont be clearing 8/8 normals for a few weeks.

You don't see a problem there? Everything being faceroll except one final boss?

[pocky_rin]

I'd say 10man is fairly easy but I won't see 25man until tonight so I can't compare. Was trying to get the legendary started so we went alt 10man yesterday, scrubbily geared. Highest ilvl was 378, 5/10 of my group can't actually queue for the raidfinder yet. Was an odd healin combo 1 priest 2 pallies, but 1shot first boss, 2nd like 7-8wipes till healing was perfectly times, 3rd took like 4 wipes and we stopped there to get our rogues on the quest. It was simple enough with good communication so I expect to breeze through the first 4 tonight on 25s since everyone saw them on LFR.

[Taurenburger]

Nice lie bro. 8/10? Which extra bosses did you kill? You realized that deathwing was dead at 8?
You probably killed 4/8 or something. But yeah, its tuned for 378 gear. Try the hms. You wont do 8/10 (lol) within a week

How was it not obvious he meant 8/10 people?

Anyways, I hoped it to be harder too.

[Deleted]

LFR is designed for people that do not have the time commitments to raid regularly with a group of people.
Normal is designed for people that raid together on a regular basis.
Heroics are designed for people that raid together on a regular basis and want real challenges.

Normals might be undertuned for players like yourself, but believe it or not, you fall into the latter of the categories.

This is the same every patch, people complain normals are undertuned. Normals are not undertuned, they're tuned exactly how Blizzard want them to be.

You can throw all these cliches around as much as you want, but the point here is that 10man normals are way more undertuned than 25man normals. It's not about LFR/normal/heroic, it's about both raid sizes being equal in terms of difficulty. While that's impossible to do considering other one has 15 more people, right now the difference in numbers is way too big.

In 25man normal mode there was a pretty big jump after the fourth boss; the last 4 bosses weren't just a walk in the park (gunship was pretty easy though) even in almost full 391s. In 10man that's not happening right now.

[tiandar]

I went to to the first 3 bosses in 10man with alts in 365 avg ilv to get to hagara for our rogues earlier. Morchok was undertuned but yorsajh did feel properly tuned dps wise for the gear level as we hit enrage once and our kill took 9 minutes with some cooldown management. Warlod Zon' boss was little rough on the tanks and healer but was still doable after a couple of attempts adjusting to the damage. DS is well tuned for a raid in 372-378 in 10man. It as an instance where many of the bosses are easily outgeared because many mechanics are just "output mechanics.

[datrillest]

We got LFR for that now, to learn mechanics. So I think they could make normal a little harder so the transition to hardmodes isn't too hard.

---------- Post added 2011-12-01 at 02:52 PM ----------



You don't see a problem there? Everything being faceroll except one final boss?

No i dont. Our raid group is in full 391's. the normals should be pretty face roll. Im kinda glad that the last fight is at least is pretty well tuned. Even the T
gunship felt pretty well tuned. Funny enough spine was a complete joke, once i realized the changes compared to when i tested it on the ptr. We one shot everything except gunship and warlord and zonzz ( we 9manned it lol).

[Deleted]

You can throw all these cliches around as much as you want, but the point here is that 10man normals are way more undertuned than 25man normals. It's not about LFR/normal/heroic, it's about both raid sizes being equal in terms of difficulty. While that's impossible to do considering other one has 15 more people, right now the difference in numbers is way too big.

In 25man normal mode there was a pretty big jump after the fourth boss; the last 4 bosses weren't just a walk in the park (gunship was pretty easy though) even in almost full 391s. In 10man that's not happening right now.

http://www.wowtrack.org/encounters.lua says otherwise.

[Tides]

Actually it was tuned for people higher than 378 gear, one of the reasons of the huge 6/7H FL nerfs so more people got geared up before Dragon Soul hit.

No. THe reason they nerfed FL was so more people could see the content.

On the PTR EU premades were (still) 359 and US premades were 378. If they were tuned to higher ilvl than this, then care to elaborate on why the premades are 378.

Your entire statement is an assumption and should not be whritten as fact, its just confusing people


On topic: Yes the first few encounters are very easy, but with the nerfs to Firelands i would say there is a much much higher % of the wow raiders that are in mostly if not full heroic gear than ever before.

[UunaPriest]

LFR is designed for people that do not have the time commitments to raid regularly with a group of people.
Normal is designed for people that raid together on a regular basis.
Heroics are designed for people that raid together on a regular basis and want real challenges.

Normals might be undertuned for players like yourself, but believe it or not, you fall into the latter of the categories.

This is the same every patch, people complain normals are undertuned. Normals are not undertuned, they're tuned exactly how Blizzard want them to be.

If that were true Blizzard would never ever change the tuning of any content.

[Evect]

25 man raiding is dead.

[xtiiina]

Stop whining before they make normal modes impossible to do again and lose 1 mil more subs. I like the difficulty. If you want hard go do your HM's and leave us bads/casuals alone.

[Rioo]

Obviously they made it a bit easier then FL normals (which we also cleared in one evening), so they wouldn't have to nerf it as hard later on and get the usual whine. I predict heroics will be pretty easy as well apart from Deathwing then, it's just how they want the raids to be these days.

[Deleted]

it's the same in 25. normal is normal it's not called "hard" for a reason.
bring on heroic modes which hopefully are actually challenging.

[Uniqed]

10 man is undertuned yeah. However that may be a way for a larger playerbase to actually try on the Heroicmode.

[datrillest]

all the normal modes are undertuned if you are wearing full 391's like almost any decent raid group should be at this point. We managed to clear 8/8 last night fairly easy except for Madness, but it only took about 3 tries to get into the last phase then 2-4 attempts to figure out some other shit, thats without even reading up on the fight. But i imagine alot of 6/7hc post nerf guilds will still have trouble with madness of DW just cause of the high dmg in the final phase and some of the unforgiving 1-shot mechanics.

[DeanyKong]

The first four bosses are pretty underwhelming, but I don't think you'll be seeing many casual guilds clear the next set soon.