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  1. #1

    D3 rmah is considered gambling in Korea and might delay launch there

    Diablo3 real money auction house is too close to online gambling say Korean officials. Blizzard hq is pressuring blizzard korea to launch d3 there even some parts of the game might be illegal. This might delay d3 Korean launch or even international launch.

    and the source was snip

    seems some moderator edited it out but meh its back now. No it is not advertising. It is simply informing other posters source of news.

    Näpsä-Sporeggar
    Last edited by Sunshine; 2011-10-01 at 12:51 AM.

  2. #2
    Korea is just mad that all their farming websites are going out of business in the diablo series.

  3. #3
    ye how care for korea europe ftw!

  4. #4
    Field Marshal Pisshands's Avatar
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    That sucks for Koreans. The RMAH doesn't even remotely resemble online gambling. The fundamental element in gambling is that you are risking something of value (be it money or "a night of passion with your exquisite wife") on a game of probability. The player quite often has losing odds, and even if a skill component is involved, there exists randomness in the system. Just because we cannot know all motivating factors, the fluctuations in an economy - be it real or on a vidya game - are the result of actions taken by members of that economy, not pure randomness.
    I guess Koreans can't define gambring.

  5. #5
    They've got an awfully loose definition of gambling then.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Pisshands View Post
    The RMAH doesn't even remotely resemble online gambling. The fundamental element in gambling is that you are risking something of value (be it money or "a night of passion with your exquisite wife") on a game of probability.
    Actually it does. If you want to sell your items in the AH you must pay Blizzard a fee for each item you list. All actions expires after some time (2 days probably) so If you managed to sell your item in time you win money, otherwise you lose it. Its just like a slot machine IMO.

    The worst part of this stupid AH is that according to Blizzard they will probably give the players a flat amount of free auctions at the beginning of the game, so if you were unlucky and couldn't sell your first items with your first auctions (to build online cash for you future auctions) you will most likely have to pay Blizzard to list your items even if you didn't want to spend any extra money in D3.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scarzi View Post
    Korea is just mad that all their farming websites are going out of business in the diablo series.
    arent you mixing up chinafarmers with korea? :>

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Synchrotron View Post
    Actually it does. If you want to sell your items in the AH you must pay Blizzard a fee for each item you list. All actions expires after some time (2 days probably) so If you managed to sell your item in time you win money, otherwise you lose it. Its just like a slot machine IMO.

    The worst part of this stupid AH is that according to Blizzard they will probably give the players a flat amount of free auctions at the beginning of the game, so if you were unlucky and couldn't sell your first items with your first auctions (to build online cash for you future auctions) you will most likely have to pay Blizzard to list your items even if you didn't want to spend any extra money in D3.
    You get a set number of free listings each week, so you never gamble to begin with. Using Korea's logic though, Is ebay gambling?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Synchrotron View Post
    Actually it does. If you want to sell your items in the AH you must pay Blizzard a fee for each item you list. All actions expires after some time (2 days probably) so If you managed to sell your item in time you win money, otherwise you lose it. Its just like a slot machine IMO.

    The worst part of this stupid AH is that according to Blizzard they will probably give the players a flat amount of free auctions at the beginning of the game, so if you were unlucky and couldn't sell your first items with your first auctions (to build online cash for you future auctions) you will most likely have to pay Blizzard to list your items even if you didn't want to spend any extra money in D3.
    It doesn't automatically relist, so if your free auctions don't sell, you don't have to pay anything more. And no, it's still not gambling, because all factors are determined by the market, a relatively predictable thing, not some random chance of getting more money.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghul View Post
    arent you mixing up chinafarmers with korea? :>
    meh. who can tell the difference

    Don't troll. -3clipse
    Last edited by 3clipse; 2011-10-03 at 09:27 PM.

  11. #11
    I could see that analogy.

    Slot machine: Put in your money. Pull the handle; hope for the right set of variables to hit; if they do you get access to cash.

    Diablo 3: Put in your money (buy the game and/or money into your blizz account). Kill (pull) the boss. Hope for the right set of variables to hit; if they do you get access to real cash.

    Might as well slap a slot machine handle on the side of the D3 box and while you put your money in, the chance of getting cash is small and as always the advantage goes to the dealer (blizzard). Who also BTW controls all the variables to winning with no regulation.

    So I'm not shocked to see other countries looking at it with a little more scrutiny.

    Quote Originally Posted by RunAwayCactuar View Post
    You get a set number of free listings each week, so you never gamble to begin with. Using Korea's logic though, Is ebay gambling?
    What you just said is not the truth and yes you are taking a gamble when posting as it will cost you to post even if it does not sell. SHould you post soemthing for $5 and it cost you $1. You're taking a gamble as I could post the same item for $4 and blizzard will get teir money from you and me.

    However, another issue is that I would have to pay a posting fee and a selling fee. While you would just have to pay the posting fee. It's all a gamble and a random chance at winning the right items that will actual sell. (and you have to pray someone does not underbid you.)

    We have no idea how many so called "free" posting you will get or if they will be per account, per week or per toon as well as the base cost of it all.

    The entire "Free" amount of posts and it's frequency is all speculation at the moment. For all we know you get 5 per account and that's all for the life of the account. (and BTW I'm just guessing at that too)
    Last edited by quras; 2011-09-28 at 02:49 PM.

  12. #12
    Moderator Shamanic's Avatar
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    There is an article on it here, http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news...123_95415.html

    Some highlights

    The “auction house” feature in its current form is expected to fail in its bid at the Game Ratings Board, especially after Korean company IMI’s “Emperor Online” was rebuffed for promoting a similar feature. Without a rating, the game cannot go on sale.
    The issue of gambling, illegal for Korean nationals, is a sensitive one, especially after a 2005-06 nationwide scandal over the Sea Story game machines that first passed the regulatory body inspection but were removed after the police discovered excessively speculative and addictive behavior among the players.

    Due to this controversy, the watchdog and approval committee was created in the Game Rating Board.

    A body under the Ministry of Culture, Sports and Tourism, it is scheduled to go under parliamentary inspection next Friday, with the issue of real-money trading in video games expected to take center stage.
    “Items” are won by individual players during the game when they complete a mission. Critics say they come through a randomized selection process, which is based on uncertainty like a card game, but Blizzard says it is a product of the player’s efforts.

    So the "gambling aspect" seems to be based on the fact that getting the valuable items in the first place is a product of chance, and thus you are making money off a random process, so by playing the game, you are gambling as to whether you will get lucky enough to farm a good item or not which you can then profit out of.

    Seems strange to me, but their laws are very strict, and if another game has already been declined on the same premise, then it's not looking good for D3 in Korea.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Shamanic View Post
    There is an article on it here, http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news...123_95415.html

    Some highlights


    So the "gambling aspect" seems to be based on the fact that getting the valuable items in the first place is a product of chance, and thus you are making money off a random process, so by playing the game, you are gambling as to whether you will get lucky enough to farm a good item or not which you can then profit out of.

    Seems strange to me, but their laws are very strict, and if another game has already been declined on the same premise, then it's not looking good for D3 in Korea.
    It could be argued that gaming has an addictive property to it, adding in something they believe is so close to gambling if not exactly like gambling (an activity that is clearly addictive), I don't find it all that strange they are looking at it with much more scrutiny.

    And yea, if they declined a game already with similar features then it's not looking all that great for D3 there.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Shamanic View Post
    There is an article on it here, http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news...123_95415.html

    Some highlights








    So the "gambling aspect" seems to be based on the fact that getting the valuable items in the first place is a product of chance, and thus you are making money off a random process, so by playing the game, you are gambling as to whether you will get lucky enough to farm a good item or not which you can then profit out of.

    Seems strange to me, but their laws are very strict, and if another game has already been declined on the same premise, then it's not looking good for D3 in Korea.
    They're getting uncomfortably close to attacking what the game's based on, instead of just the end result, the real money part. It's not really a stretch to say that random loot games in general are gambling, if you go by their definition. Kinda sucks for Korea, I guess.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Caiada View Post
    They've got an awfully loose definition of gambling then.
    I was going to say... is EBAY considered gambling in Korea!? :P
    "Tell them only that the Lich King is dead... and that World of Warcraft... died with him..."

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    That's the ONLY reason you would post 9600 posts over 3 years: a mission of hate.

  16. #16
    If the RMAH is illegal on the grounds of Gambling, then the stockmarket should be illegal too.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonuts View Post
    If the RMAH is illegal on the grounds of Gambling, then the stockmarket should be illegal too.
    You're looking at it the wrong way.

    It's not so much the selling as it is how the items are acquired, the amount of actual money they are worth and how the random chance affects money. Just like a slot machine.

    Every item dropped in game can eventually be lead back to cash through a random generation that blizzard controls with no regulation. Even items that will never sell on the RMAH can be turned into gold that can eventually be turned into real cash. I think it's more of a problem with how the items are received than the actual selling.

    Like I said above but I'll add a little extra:

    Slot machine: Put in your money. Pull the handle; hope for the right set of variables to hit; if they do you get access to a token. That token is then exchanged for cash.

    Diablo 3: Put in your money (buy the game and/or money into your blizz account). Kill (pull) the boss. Hope for the right set of variables to hit; if they do you get access to an item. That items can then to exchanged for cash.

    A slot machine gives you a token that is generally worthless except for the value the company placed on it. I think it's seen the same for the game. Every items that randomly drops has a price placed on it by some method and blizzard controls that randomness with regulation. It's too similar to online gambling than the Koreans want to deal with and I don't blame them as I agree with them.



    It's so much in the selling as in Ebay as it is how it's acquired. At least thats what I get out of it.
    Last edited by quras; 2011-09-29 at 01:42 PM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by quras View Post
    You're looking at it the wrong way.

    It's not so much the selling as it is how the items are acquired, the amount of actual money they are worth and how the random chance affects money. Just like a slot machine.

    Every item dropped in game can eventually be lead back to cash through a random generation that blizzard controls with no regulation. Even items that will never sell on the RMAH can be turned into gold that can eventually be turned into real cash. I think it's more of a problem with how the items are received than the actual selling.

    Like I said above but I'll add a little extra:




    A slot machine gives you a token that is generally worthless except for the value the company placed on it. I think it's seen the same for the game. Every items that randomly drops has a price placed on it by some method and blizzard controls that randomness with regulation. It's too similar to online gambling than the Koreans want to deal with and I don't blame them as I agree with them.



    It's so much in the selling as in Ebay as it is how it's acquired. At least thats what I get out of it.
    No gambling ever includes you getting infinite tokens just for paying an entry cost though. The listing fee only applies after the item is obtained and thus that gambling is over. If random drops are gambling, they should be gambling whether or not there is money involved. I don't see why cash should suddenly make it illegal when it doesn't fundamentally change anything.

  19. #19
    funny, i don't see how it's gambling if you're buying something or get your money back if you dont win. Did they ban ebay too?

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Caiada View Post
    No gambling ever includes you getting infinite tokens just for paying an entry cost though. The listing fee only applies after the item is obtained and thus that gambling is over. If random drops are gambling, they should be gambling whether or not there is money involved. I don't see why cash should suddenly make it illegal when it doesn't fundamentally change anything.
    I agree it does not perfectly fit the mold for what we consider gambling but it's close enough to be a concern. The random chance at token (gear) that can be exchanged for real money. It's close enough to cause concern apparently in some parts of the world. To which I agree. It's not something I support in a video game where any age that can access a PC can be a part of it.

    Sure you can parental control it but having to do that in and of itself means there is something not quite on the level about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by soulzek View Post
    funny, i don't see how it's gambling if you're buying something or get your money back if you dont win. Did they ban ebay too?
    It's the money put forth in buying access to the machine, the randomness of how tokens (gear) are obtained and who controls how random those items are. As well as how they are exchanged for real cash.

    It close enough to gambling that some people are taking a closer look at it.
    Last edited by quras; 2011-09-29 at 08:32 PM.

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