Thread: So renew?

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  1. #1

    So renew?

    Hey,

    So I'm playing my alt priest as holy and am a bit confused why people seem to hate on renew so much.

    My POH heals 5 people for 9.5k each while my renew heals one for 19k including glyphs / talents for them both.


    POH has a 2.09 sec cast which means I can get 3 renew off in the same period.

    POH will heal for 47.5k best case, renew will heal for 57k.

    renew allows me to move while casting, and allows me to heal people from different groups, but costs more mana.

    So in heavy damage phases why would I use prayer over renew?
    Last edited by powersoul; 2011-12-02 at 03:31 AM.

  2. #2
    Scarab Lord Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Ok...
    Its more of the time frame and the mana cost. Renew DOES heal more then PoH, BUT it heals over a period of time. If you need to heal up multiple people extremely fast, PoH/CoH is the way to go, 100%. If, say, its an aura type fight with smaller damage coming in, but its coming in rapidly, Renew is a decent choice.

    I also fail to see how you say you can get 3 renew off in a 2.09 sec cast time, since Renew has a GCD of 1 sec max. With a cast time of 2.09, you can heal 10 targets in the amount of time it took to Renew 4. Renew's ONLY niche for healing is really only when a few targets have taken damage and you dont really need to top them off ASAP.

    So PoH is prefered over Renew for heavy AoE because it heals MORE targets FASTER, and CHEAPER then Renew does, with emphasis on the FASTER part. Renew takes 12 secs to fully tick and heal for full, which is plenty of time for a target to die OR be topped off by another healer. I would suggest, however, if you are speced for it, throwing on say, a renew on each tank/self before AoE damage period.
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    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  3. #3
    did you include echo of light in your calculation? And how can you cast 3 renews in 2.06s. Even with rapid renew, you would need 1s to cast a renew, which mean 3s for 3 renew.
    Last edited by M3ne; 2011-12-02 at 03:52 AM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    Ok...


    I also fail to see how you say you can get 3 renew off in a 2.09 sec cast time, since Renew has a GCD of 1 sec max. With a cast time of 2.09, you can heal 10 targets in the amount of time it took to Renew 4. Renew's ONLY niche for healing is really only when a few targets have taken damage and you dont really need to top them off ASAP.
    Well people have taken damage So
    Cast renew 1 (or start casting prayer )
    - after 1 sec I cast renew 2 (Prayer is 1 sec into cast
    - After 2 sec I cast renew 3( prayer finishes )

    So it's more like 6 renews per 2 prayers

    Besides I've only seen 1 fight in DS so far that will take an entire party to such low health that they are in danger of dieing in the next 5 seconds, which is when the meator is not slowed on Dw. all the other times it will be 3 or so random people making both prayer and renew pretty irrelevant.

    ---------- Post added 2011-12-02 at 03:56 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by M3ne View Post
    did you include echo of light in your calculation? And how can you cast 3 renews in 2.06s. Even with rapid renew, you would need 1s to cast a renew, which mean 3s for 3 renew.
    Yes but when I start casting I'm not in the GCD, I've not seen a fight yet where I'm GCD capped (10 man)

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by powersoul View Post
    Well people have taken damage So
    Cast renew 1 (or start casting prayer )
    - after 1 sec I cast renew 2 (Prayer is 1 sec into cast
    - After 2 sec I cast renew 3( prayer finishes )

    So it's more like 6 renews per 2 prayers
    Ok, After cast POH, you can always cast renew immediately, which make it likes: 3 renews vs POH +1 renew. Which one is better?

  6. #6
    Yeah ok nvm, I kinda forgot to take into account that I will be off CGD after POH lands.


    So when 4 random people get hit what do you do, just GH them?

  7. #7
    I think the biggest problem with renew is with your fellow healers.
    Example:
    If you have someone with half hp and he doesn't have to be healed up fast you can cast a renew. This is all fine, but if your fellow healers decide to cast a direct heal on the same target, your renew will do nothing.

    If you talk with the other healers in your guild/raid and decide that all of you will use hots on targets like in the example, Renew might become more useful. Until then, keep it up on a tank or on someone taking dmg all the time. So that you will at least get the full benefit of it.

  8. #8
    I think the biggest problem with renew is with your fellow healers.
    Example:
    If you have someone with half hp and he doesn't have to be healed up fast you can cast a renew. This is all fine, but if your fellow healers decide to cast a direct heal on the same target, your renew will do nothing.

    If you talk with the other healers in your guild/raid and decide that all of you will use hots on targets like in the example, Renew might become more useful. Until then, keep it up on a tank or on someone taking dmg all the time. So that you will at least get the full benefit of it.
    You would think, but it isn't a problem for Druids with Rejuv. The real problem with Renew is that it does not benefit from Mastery at all.

  9. #9
    I've never really used renew for the last months, but now that we have a good amount of spirit and let's say we have huge damage incoming, would it be useful to have everyone under renew and then spam PoH/CoH or do you think PoH/CoH is sufficient for all the encounters of 4.3 ? Of course, this is only possible when you know you can afford to spend this huge amount of mana for all the renew.

    For this patch, I took the 3 points in renew loosing body and soul, I didn't have mana problems with renew but I'm still not sure if those points are really useful for my healing throughput. I've done 7/8 so far.
    Last edited by kriegalex; 2011-12-02 at 01:01 PM.

  10. #10
    If POH will hit and won't overheal 4-5 targets, Renew spam+POH is an HPCT loss. When POH will only hit and not overheal 2 or less targets, use Renew, and if they need more healing use Flash Heal to build up stacks of Serendipity. At 3 targets, they are about the same, but POH is probably your best bet.

    Renew is good for moving, or for putting on single targets that need a lot of healing (so Renew has a higher likelihood of not overhealing or getting sniped before it gets some healing done. It can be very useful for movement fights. Also, you can Pre-hot before a big hit of damage and that will be an HPCT increase, assuming your mana can handle it. Putting up Inner Will before you spam can help with that - any healing you get from Pre-hotting is pretty much gravy anyway so you aren't really losing much from using Inner Will. Just remember to switch back to Inner Fire for POH spam.

  11. #11
    What about :
    1.- pre-renew 1 party before heavy aoe with inner will, 6 seconds before heavy aoe
    2.- PoH bombs on the non "pre-renewd" party 1 sec before aoe lands on raid
    3.- healing output x2
    4.- profit

    Edit: or just like *Felade said, omg i just saw his comment, eh!

  12. #12
    In a 25m enviorment I find renew to have significant overhealing and is very rarely something that saves anyone from death (and if they botch a mechanic then they're generally going to die after the first tick or two).

    "Besides I've only seen 1 fight in DS so far that will take an entire party to such low health that they are in danger of dieing in the next 5 seconds, which is when the meator is not slowed on Dw."
    If you don't feel that damage incoming is so grave, I would think that PoH would seem loads better from an efficiency standpoint (2poh =~3 renew in mana cost i think?)

  13. #13
    renew ~10 HPM
    PoH ~16 HPM

    IF you're below a certain Ilvl (around 375), AND you take rapid renewal, renew and PoH have almost identical HPCT. Once you get above a certain amount of mastery / haste, PoH is higher HPCT even with RR.

    Renew could be our most efficient single target heal, if you can figure out how to prevent overheal. That's entirely dependent on fight mechanics and raid comp. It's also a good precast for big incoming damage bursts. We can't use it like Rejuv, though, since we just have much better tools available to be our mainstay. Druids don't, so they blanket hots. We have PoH, and the figures suggest PoH should be our main heal.

  14. #14
    I am thinking of scraping the improved renew talents and going with healing voice and the build i posted below.

    Being able to pop divine hym once every three minutes when strong raid damage is incoming is quite valuable in my opinion. I feel having a three minute cooldown on divine hym and turning into an angel and continue healing if i die out weights the benefits of the renew talents in a 25 man raid.

    Thoughts?

    Good thread btw.

    http://www.wowhead.com/talent#bchZfurMRzbkfdoh

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Doogster View Post
    I am thinking of scraping the improved renew talents and going with healing voice and the build i posted below.

    Being able to pop divine hym once every three minutes when strong raid damage is incoming is quite valuable in my opinion. I feel having a three minute cooldown on divine hym and turning into an angel and continue healing if i die out weights the benefits of the renew talents in a 25 man raid.

    Thoughts?

    Good thread btw.

    http://www.wowhead.com/talent#bchZfurMRzbkfdoh
    i use the same spec except im specced into veiled shadows (MS is disc so i am gemmed/reforged for disc as i didnt collect FL gear for holy) and dont run with a lot of spirit.

  16. #16
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Renew is a great spell, never rule it out - for tank healing you should always be running it as its the best most efficient heal you can cast if you are going to maintain it with direct heals. Treat it like Rejuv for rdruids for healing people who don't need healing quick and are isolated in who is taking damage (specific people in random groups). The only reason people encourage beginners to mostly ignore renew as holy is because for AoE healing you should be using PoH / CoH / ProM / Lightwell - as opposed to the old strategy in like WotLK of rolling Renews on everyone you could: that's a terrible healing strat in Cata.

    Definitely use renew, don't rely on renew.
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  17. #17
    I keep imp renew since renew continues to account for about 5-8% of my throughput even on fights where I stay ch:sanc the whole time. I did, however, drop divine touch and rapid renewal, so I agree with you there.

    I'm not sure I agree with SoR. I can count the number of times SoR prevented a wipe on 1 finger. Blessed Resilience, though, continues to account for an average of 1-2% of my total output. That's assuming that most of my binding heals benefit from it, which isn't unlikely. I'd much rather keep serendipity/blessed resilience than those renew talents and SoR.

  18. #18
    Herald of the Titans Irisel's Avatar
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    I'm a little confused as to why we're discussing PoH and Renew as equals. They are drastically different spells and do drastically different things when healing.

    Rule of Thumb: If the healer's HPS is higher than your DPS, you're doing it wrong.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Irisel View Post
    I'm a little confused as to why we're discussing PoH and Renew as equals. They are drastically different spells and do drastically different things when healing.
    Because back in ICC, you either spammed 2 second Prayers and cycled them across groups, or you spammed Renew. To a fair chunk of people, they still want Renew to fill the same niche as Prayer, because they like healing like Druids.
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  20. #20
    On Spine, I spam renew on people who have the absorb debuff. Think I'd be better with GH?

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