Demonology, is it any good?

[Deleted]

We try to see if one of our warlocks should be demo for 10% sp buf. Will it be a benefit? We are a 10man with 2 other dpses on spell power and 2 to 3 healers.

[Deleted]

Demo is the #1 specc for warlocks atm, so yes

[Derivatives]

Yeah. It's not a super easy spec mind you, but it's a fun one. It also puts out the best numbers.

[Belloc]

If the warlock in question is highly skilled, Demonology is the top performing spec. If, however, that player is average-to-above average in skill, destruction will perform better. Demonology has a very high skill requirement to outdps destruction.

If you have an elemental shaman, I wouldn't worry. Otherwise, have him start practicing... it's not an easy spec to get right.

[Prime017]

Demo is the #1 specc for warlocks atm, so yes

Caveat: If you can stay in melee range for Shadowflame flame and If the person is any good at Demo to begin with. It sims very high but Affliction and Destro are not very far behind at all.

@ OP

If your raid need the 10% spell power then yes, your lock should go demo for progression content. When played properly it is highly competitive. If your warlock is unfamiliar with demo, don't expect them to automatically top meters just for switching specs.

[Harsesis]

What others have said. The spec requires quite a bit of skill and the player needs to be able to accomplish certain things to play it properly. If the player ends of playing demo I recommend them taking destro as their offspec. The two specs gear very similar (stacking mastery) so you won't see as big of a dps difference between them as you would between say demo and afflic.

[kendro1200]

If the warlock in question is highly skilled, Demonology is the top performing spec. If, however, that player is average-to-above average in skill, destruction will perform better. Demonology has a very high skill requirement to outdps destruction.

If you have an elemental shaman, I wouldn't worry. Otherwise, have him start practicing... it's not an easy spec to get right.

You forget the implications beyond personal dps, which so many people tend to focus on. You should find which of your warlocks are able to perform the best as demo and make them do it. Why? Spell power boost isn't just a raid dps gain, as well as a potential personal dps gain, it is also a hpm and hps boost for your healers. From what the op mentioned with the 2 magic dps, and 2 to 3 healers, roughly half of the raid is composed of people that'd get a 10% boost to their output. The awesome'ness of that fact leaves me bewildered as to why people even begin to question the why they should have a demo lock or an ele shaman. The real question that should be asked is why doesn't the raid have one to begin with?

[LTCrystallite]

You forget the implications beyond personal dps, which so many people tend to focus on. You should find which of your warlocks are able to perform the best as demo and make them do it. Why? Spell power boost isn't just a raid dps gain, as well as a potential personal dps gain, it is also a hpm and hps boost for your healers. From what the op mentioned with the 2 magic dps, and 2 to 3 healers, roughly half of the raid is composed of people that'd get a 10% boost to their output. The awesome'ness of that fact leaves me bewildered as to why people even begin to question the why they should have a demo lock or an ele shaman. The real question that should be asked is why doesn't the raid have one to begin with?

While true, I wouldn't want my least favorite spec to provide a god buff and be forced to play it just because of that buff.

[Deleted]

I personally find Destro more complicated and easier to mess up / harder to accomplish perfection because of soulfire uptime than demo. For example if u have 5 seconds left on soul fire buff + immolate runs out + conflagrate is of cd + shadowflame is of cd, it's very messy. Demo is ahead on pure Patchwerk + immolate / shadowflame range. Without 10% SP buff given by someone else even more so I prefer it. U have to know the fight well though to time your Meta for maxdps before movement or for burnphases.

[Kildragon]

Demo is the #1 specc for warlocks atm, so yes

Yeah. It's not a super easy spec mind you, but it's a fun one. It also puts out the best numbers.

If the warlock in question is highly skilled, Demonology is the top performing spec. If, however, that player is average-to-above average in skill, destruction will perform better. Demonology has a very high skill requirement to outdps destruction.

To clear things up a bit. Demonology is theoretically the highest DPS spec on a patchwork fight where the warlock can stay in melee range. Demonology is not the highest DPS spec by default in a raid setting, even if the best warlock in the world played it. In many cases in the current raid Demo will actually come out lower than Destro or Afflic on the overall damage meters.

Destruction is currently much harder to min-max than demonology, needing to maintain a much shorter Immolate that needs to be refreshed with as many buffs as possible as many times as possible, on top of two other dots, managing 2 short CD's, a 20 second personal buff that needs to be kept up through a 2.3 second cast, and the managing of Backdraft procs with Incin.

The two specs gear very similar (stacking mastery) so you won't see as big of a dps difference between them as you would between say demo and afflic.

More misinformation...again...how many times do I need to correct people on this stuff? Destruction stacks Haste until 2437 haste (for goblins) and another haste value for non-goblins that I don't know since I am a goblin, after which Mastery becomes better than Haste. Demo only stacks mastery, meaning Destro will actually lose quite a bit of DPS by using your Demo reforges.

[Derivatives]

To clear things up a bit. Demonology is theoretically the highest DPS spec on a patchwork fight where the warlock can stay in melee range. Demonology is not the highest DPS spec by default in a raid setting, even if the best warlock in the world played it. In many cases in the current raid Demo will actually come out lower than Destro or Afflic on the overall damage meters.

Destruction is currently much harder to min-max than demonology, needing to maintain a much shorter Immolate that needs to be refreshed with as many buffs as possible as many times as possible, on top of two other dots, managing 2 short CD's, a 20 second personal buff that needs to be kept up through a 2.3 second cast, and the managing of Backdraft procs with Incin.



More misinformation...again...how many times do I need to correct people on this stuff? Destruction stacks Haste until 2437 haste (for goblins) and another haste value for non-goblins that I don't know since I am a goblin, after which Mastery becomes better than Haste. Demo only stacks mastery, meaning Destro will actually lose quite a bit of DPS by using your Demo reforges.

Actually Demo aims for 1993 haste (non goblin) and then dumps the rest into mastery. At 1993 haste it's Mastery>Crit>Haste

[Kildragon]

Actually Demo aims for 1993 haste (non goblin) and then dumps the rest into mastery. At 1993 haste it's Mastery>Crit>Haste

Not true, even at haste levels below 1993 Mastery almost doubles the value of Haste

http://simulationcraft.org/430/Warlo...emonology_T12H

In this case Demonology is running with 1604 Haste and is still showing Haste at 1.2 while Mastery is above 2. Now if you're within 100 haste rating of another dot tick then yes Haste may pick up in value but until then it's all Mastery. This may of course have something to do with MWC since it devalues Haste by quite a bit so Haste may pick up in value once you replace MWC but it will never be able to trump the insane value that Mastery provides this tier.

[Honzi]

Not true, even at haste levels below 1993 Mastery almost doubles the value of Haste

http://simulationcraft.org/430/Warlo...emonology_T12H

In this case Demonology is running with 1604 Haste and is still showing Haste at 1.2 while Mastery is above 2. Now if you're within 100 haste rating of another dot tick then yes Haste may pick up in value but until then it's all Mastery. This may of course have something to do with MWC since it devalues Haste by quite a bit so Haste may pick up in value once you replace MWC but it will never be able to trump the insane value that Mastery provides this tier.

Someone at EJ simed a profile with 1993 haste and MWC while using Meta and Demonsoul on CD. Which basically means you only synch MWC with Meta every second time. This was a dps gain over using Meta+MWC every 2 minutes in synch and going full mastery.
I simed it for myself too and it really was a 200dps increase.

[Kildragon]

Someone at EJ simed a profile with 1993 haste and MWC while using Meta and Demonsoul on CD. Which basically means you only synch MWC with Meta every second time. This was a dps gain over using Meta+MWC every 2 minutes in synch and going full mastery.
I simed it for myself too and it really was a 200dps increase.

How much haste do you have on your profile that goes full mastery? Mainly asking because in full T13 BiS gear Demo will be running with 2185 Haste even when going full Hit to cap>>Mastery>>Haste>>Crit This makes me think that with the set up you ran in the sims you may actually be very close to the haste breakpoint even when going full Mastery, slightly pushing ahead the value of haste.

[Rio]

Haven't played since 4.2 launched, but does Demo still need to pet swap? Or can we keep or FG up for the whole fight?

[Aeiri]

No. Start with FG->Blow cooldowns->Keep Felhunter out for rest of fight.

If you still use MWC and have the opportunity then you can hardcast felguards out at the proper time for the next MWC/DS/Meta, then SB a Felhunter out again.

[Deleted]

Personally, I think it's the time to replace MWC. I'll be aiming for Will of the Unbinding + DMC:V or something else like Cunning of the Cruel.

What do you guys think ? Replacing MWC would make our rotation somewhat less clunky.