1. #1
    Scarab Lord UncleSilas's Avatar
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    Hard Labour: It's good for you.

    Once again there was a news segment about the "disgrace" of young people. How they're out of control, binge drinking, teen pregnancy, violence and drugs. Let me start of by saying I disbelieve most of this, looking at the numbers the amount of alcohol being consumed now is less than fifty years ago, the only difference is the way it is consumed. Violence amongst "young" people is often misrepresented as young people enjoying the violence, and not simply a side effect of either crime or drug abuse. Also the type of drugs being used are not properly reported, news segments on meth and other class 1 drugs are proportional to what is consumed, less than 10% of young people ever even try these drugs.

    Now to education, grades are consistently going up (in a European context), yet segments that say education is becoming "too" easy are also prevalent. The idea that our young generation are out of control is a fallacy, it has been said as far back as the '50's, "Rock and roll is killing our youth!". Yet the only real problem right now is our banking sector, people who grew up with great comfort and removed from the deemed "socially problematic". So countries like England introduced ASBO's, designed to scare young people into avoiding "anti social behaviour", which is the most loose legal term ever introduced.

    And yet while I disagree with nearly all of these arguments, my firm belief being that this generation is no worse than the last, I do think that some aspects of our culture could do with adjusting. Now to the topic name, by hard labour I mean a variety of things. I do not mean going out building rail lines or motor ways, I simply mean something physical. Something that uses up all the pent up energy and frustration you have as a youth. One very good idea is gardening. Now men are suited to heavy labour, don't argue we're simply biologically more likely to build knotted muscle faster and in more quantities. But gardening also requires co-ordination, planning and intricate work, meaning women have an equal and important role to play.

    A sense of community is quickly fading, and community gardens are one of the best ways to foster community development, it also provides a safe and productive place for young people to learn discipline and teamwork. Or there's military service, I've never been against compulsory military service. Provided it's the German model where you pick either military or social services, thus giving back to the community and growing as an individual.

    But what do you think? Is the young generation out of control? Do we need something to help the youth learn key life lessons like discipline, teamwork and community? Or should we just let things take their course?

  2. #2
    The Lightbringer Istaril's Avatar
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    But what do you think? Is the young generation out of control? Do we need something to help the youth learn key life lessons like discipline, teamwork and community? Or should we just let things take their course?
    Not really. Anyone who does generally tends to read either the Sun or the Daily Mail.

    And I think this video sums them up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFACt...eature=related
    Quote Originally Posted by Vizardlorde View Post
    Guns don't kill people deranged dogs and cooking ovens kill people.
    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    We went to Iraq in search of WMD's but found none. I guess they dont have pressure cookers over there : (

  3. #3
    Banned YoungRider's Avatar
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    My step dad told me the same thing right before he used to beat me.

  4. #4
    iam 25 and iam in the young generation,the problem is what insentives(dont know if its the right word)society gives you,young people will do many things as long as they have the chance to do them.Trying to force something is what made younger generations(people of 30 years old and under)to be what they are today.That reaction tp the oppresion and the lack of goals and morals(not the religious morals but the ones that are good for cociety)is what lead where we are now.

  5. #5
    People say that the youth of today is spoiled and does pretty much everything they want. I guess this is the point you're trying to make.

    People also forget that behind this youth, there's an older generation that was/is responsible for their education.

    The youth today is the way they are because of the parents. Kids today have so much freedom that i find it so amazing. It's the parent's fault. Im not an old guy, im just 24 after all.
    But since when would i be out with my friends until 3 am drinking or whatever when i was 13-15? My father would slap the hell out of me. When im out with my friends these days, i see so many young kids doing shit that would get me a whole lot of yelling from my parents.

    That said, i guess the fault is a mix between how society tells to raise your kids and consequently the parents. Parents today are just too damn soft. I've had this argument with other people before, about how to educate and reprehend your child when he does bad things.
    When im asked what i would do, it's pretty simple: look i dont care how other people raise their kids, if i caught my 14 year old son out of the house doing stupid crap, he'd get a slap on his face/back of the head and yelling that he wouldn't hear again for 3 days!

    Seriously people are so touchy about this nowadays "omg what kind of parent are you?! You should speak to your child instead". Sure my parents spoke to me as well, but thanks to that yelling ( not hit, i was the only son that didn't get a slap :P) i grew up just fine.

    And then people tell me that's actually illegal on some countries and the parent can get prison time for beating his son/daughter.

    Look folks, there's a difference between beating up your child and giving him a slap for reprehend purposes. Stop being such pussies and educate your kids properly.

    And you want them to be disciplined? Have them practice a martial art for a few years. Such arts are really good to build a person's character.

    As for jobs that require physical efforts, well im a 24 rookie archaeologist and my job requires that get my hands dirty and dig all day and carrying buckets of dirt back and fort.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by UncleSilas View Post
    But what do you think? Is the young generation out of control?
    Speaking from an American perspective, I would say the young generation isn't out of control at all. The couple generations that make up the bulk of people presently governing the country, however, are completely out of control and have created an unsustainable and corrupt system. That these people now blame those under 30 for what they've done is appalling.

    Of course, there's cultural ups and downs to each generation. I'd agree in a broad sense that the 18-30 folks don't tend to place appropriate value on hard work, but there's other areas where they excel. We'll see how that pans out, I suppose.
    Quote Originally Posted by satimy View Post
    Well when you put it that way Obamacare is a lot like Iraq...

  7. #7
    The Insane Cattaclysmic's Avatar
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    when i saw the title i was like

    Ja ja, Arbeit macht Frei...

    Or like the Time Magazine cover saying: Why anxiety is good for you

  8. #8
    Stood in the Fire
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    My dad says my generation is in bad shape. Funny thing is my grandfather says he said the same thing to my father growing up. It's all b.s

    Also don't forget. Whose generation put us in 13 trillion dollars worth of debt, a world who's economy in general is bad and is at war? Not mine.

  9. #9
    the demoralization of younger generations is no myth imo...

    and i don't feel part of any 'community' here in London.

  10. #10
    I think everyone should be required to work one "shitty" job during their teenage years. I worked at an arcade for 3 years, and it makes me appreciate my job as a scientist so much more.

  11. #11
    High Overlord Sykezs's Avatar
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    This generation is no worse than the last? How did you work that out?? I'm just glad I sorted my life out before I got too old to do so. While I may be part of this generations of youth I believe I've got a bit more brains than most of them. The majority of people I ask what exactly they're doing with their life they mostly respond "Just at Uni, for something to do". What kind of response is that?? University is a damn privilege and they all seem to go there to live off a loan for a few years then come out with a degree in something they'll never get a job in or weren't even interested in to start with.

    And you also stated less than 10% of these young people try drugs? That's absolute crap! Most of my so-called friends nowadays actually go out to clubs and PLAN to get cocaine or anything to get a high off of.

    This generation IS out of control. There is no sense of discipline or even some bloody gratitude. I actually heard someone on the bus I was on yesterday talking about how they got a house close to their University and that their parents ONLY gave them 20 grand towards it and because of that they won't get a car bought for them now. Are you actually fucking serious.
    My Armoury 7/7 HC Firelands

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  12. #12
    Immortal Noomz's Avatar
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    Learn the value of money and those around you, and you will learn the two most valuable lessons in life.
    How you achieve learning that is often through struggle and achieving things with consequence in your life. And people have been able, or not able to do so ever since the dawn of man.

    The real problem nowadays is not wether a youngster gets to work hard or not, but the seriously lacking parenting. I reckon it's become commonplace for parents to not care about their kids or what they get their impressions from.
    Being there for your children and letting them live lifes lessons is the best thing ever. But if you're gonna let them get burnt by the fire, be sure to be there for them afterwards.

    ---------- Post added 2011-12-04 at 07:21 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ambush View Post
    the demoralization of younger generations is no myth imo...

    and i don't feel part of any 'community' here in London.
    That's also part of the problem. The youth are always told how useless, lazy and stupid they are.
    Especially the unemployed. How is anyone to improve and feel better when all they're getting is crap for excisting?

    The desensitation (or how you spell it) of humans is also part of the problem. We see death and horrible things almost daily, and ofcourse that makes use feel bad or shut ourselves in.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Sykezs View Post
    This generation is no worse than the last? How did you work that out?? I'm just glad I sorted my life out before I got too old to do so. While I may be part of this generations of youth I believe I've got a bit more brains than most of them. The majority of people I ask what exactly they're doing with their life they mostly respond "Just at Uni, for something to do". What kind of response is that?? University is a damn privilege and they all seem to go there to live off a loan for a few years then come out with a degree in something they'll never get a job in or weren't even interested in to start with.

    And you also stated less than 10% of these young people try drugs? That's absolute crap! Most of my so-called friends nowadays actually go out to clubs and PLAN to get cocaine or anything to get a high off of.

    This generation IS out of control. There is no sense of discipline or even some bloody gratitude. I actually heard someone on the bus I was on yesterday talking about how they got a house close to their University and that their parents ONLY gave them 20 grand towards it and because of that they won't get a car bought for them now. Are you actually fucking serious.
    Do your friends encompass 90% of today's "youth" - Are you that well known that you can claim you can speak for the majority? I'm 22, and I've never smoked, nor touched drugs in my life. Call it bullshit if you want.

    No sense of discipline or gratitude. I go to work at 7 every morning, and spent from 7:30-4pm bagging sofas and lifting them onto racks. I passed all my GCSE's and A Levels, and did an apprenticeship in Advanced Software Development. Here I am, working in a factory. I'm in a job, as it is "something to do". It's something in this climate, where jobs are sought after. I bust my balls for 9 hours a day on minimum wage, usually doing the job of 2-3 people. There are people out there that would rather do SOMETHING than nothing. There are people out there, who would rather go home each night reeking of high heaven, and feel proud that they put in the effort, than sitting on their arse all day doing nothing. At least people are doing something. Don't make such dumb statements that this generation is out of control. Until this generation is put in places of power, you have no merit, nor basis for even claiming that.
    For someone who has "a bit more brains than most of them" you sure as hell make some questionable claims.

  14. #14
    High Overlord Sykezs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StylesClashv3 View Post
    Do your friends encompass 90% of today's "youth" - Are you that well known that you can claim you can speak for the majority? I'm 22, and I've never smoked, nor touched drugs in my life. Call it bullshit if you want.

    No sense of discipline or gratitude. I go to work at 7 every morning, and spent from 7:30-4pm bagging sofas and lifting them onto racks. I passed all my GCSE's and A Levels, and did an apprenticeship in Advanced Software Development. Here I am, working in a factory. I'm in a job, as it is "something to do". It's something in this climate, where jobs are sought after. I bust my balls for 9 hours a day on minimum wage, usually doing the job of 2-3 people. There are people out there that would rather do SOMETHING than nothing. There are people out there, who would rather go home each night reeking of high heaven, and feel proud that they put in the effort, than sitting on their arse all day doing nothing. At least people are doing something. Don't make such dumb statements that this generation is out of control. Until this generation is put in places of power, you have no merit, nor basis for even claiming that.
    For someone who has "a bit more brains than most of them" you sure as hell make some questionable claims.
    Interesting that all my views I said, you typically think they are aimed at you, do you think you account for 100% of youths? Gratz on busting your balls for minimum wage 9 hours a day. I work at a garage as an apprentice mechanic 6 days a week for below minimum wage and I might get to see minimum wage 2+ years into my apprenticeship and once my time is served I'll be 26. But you know what, I love it, I feel like I earn my right to be a part of society after every 12 hour shift. You twist my words substantially on my original post. You said "at least people are doing something". I'd rather they do nothing if they have no interest in a course at University and feed off their student loans and government grants for as long as they can. Just because its "something to do".
    My Armoury 7/7 HC Firelands

    Currently specc'd "Non-Discipline" FUCK RAID MITIGATION CD'S WE ARE HEALERS

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimbold21 View Post
    People say that the youth of today is spoiled and does pretty much everything they want. I guess this is the point you're trying to make.

    People also forget that behind this youth, there's an older generation that was/is responsible for their education.

    The youth today is the way they are because of the parents. Kids today have so much freedom that i find it so amazing. It's the parent's fault. Im not an old guy, im just 24 after all.
    But since when would i be out with my friends until 3 am drinking or whatever when i was 13-15? My father would slap the hell out of me. When im out with my friends these days, i see so many young kids doing shit that would get me a whole lot of yelling from my parents.

    That said, i guess the fault is a mix between how society tells to raise your kids and consequently the parents. Parents today are just too damn soft. I've had this argument with other people before, about how to educate and reprehend your child when he does bad things.
    When im asked what i would do, it's pretty simple: look i dont care how other people raise their kids, if i caught my 14 year old son out of the house doing stupid crap, he'd get a slap on his face/back of the head and yelling that he wouldn't hear again for 3 days!

    Seriously people are so touchy about this nowadays "omg what kind of parent are you?! You should speak to your child instead". Sure my parents spoke to me as well, but thanks to that yelling ( not hit, i was the only son that didn't get a slap :P) i grew up just fine.

    And then people tell me that's actually illegal on some countries and the parent can get prison time for beating his son/daughter.

    Look folks, there's a difference between beating up your child and giving him a slap for reprehend purposes. Stop being such pussies and educate your kids properly.

    And you want them to be disciplined? Have them practice a martial art for a few years. Such arts are really good to build a person's character.

    As for jobs that require physical efforts, well im a 24 rookie archaeologist and my job requires that get my hands dirty and dig all day and carrying buckets of dirt back and fort.
    I hope you never get kids as long as you have fucked up ideas/moral values like that. Hitting a child (slap) for what ever reason is wrong and surely will get you in jail where I live. This is called child abuse and if you actually think hitting a child will make anything better you seriously have no idea what you are talking about.

  16. #16
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleSilas View Post
    But what do you think? Is the young generation out of control? Do we need something to help the youth learn key life lessons like discipline, teamwork and community? Or should we just let things take their course?
    "Our youth now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for
    authority; they show disrespect for elders and love to chatter in
    places of exercise. Children are tyrants, not the servants of the
    household. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They
    contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up their food
    and tyrannize their teachers."






    Said by Socrates, 44 BC.

    Nothing new, eh?
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Izin View Post
    I hope you never get kids as long as you have fucked up ideas/moral values like that. Hitting a child (slap) for what ever reason is wrong and surely will get you in jail where I live. This is called child abuse and if you actually think hitting a child will make anything better you seriously have no idea what you are talking about.
    This is the usual misinterpretation people make. Usually people think that when one says "hitting the kid" means the beating living hell out of hell. That's incorrect.

    What i can tell you is that there's a countless number of people out there who were at least hit once by their parents, be it a slap in the cheek or in the head, be it getting hit by your mom's wooden kitchen spoon, and they turned just fine.

    You also misunderstand if you think that i mean you should do so at every opportunity. Incorrect aswell, but if my kid does something that i find very very bad, he'll get at least some yelling in his face.

    This is the problem with people today. They think that being harsh with a child when he's done something horrible is instantly child abuse. Oh that you should speak with the child instead, find out what are his issues. I'm not saying you shouldn't speak to your kids, but parents today lack the ability to discipline their kids. This is why today they do what they want, be it in or outside their homes.

    Im sure you've heard of the countless examples of kids raising their voices or actually being violent with their family. If i ever thought of doing that to my mother/father, boy oh boy was i gonna get it!

    The same thing applies to school. I still had authoritarian teachers in first grade. In fact i remember being slapped by teacher once. It was one hell of slap. Yet i didn't end up being a socially awkard repressed kid.
    But as soon as i reached secondary school, the situation was already changing to what i consider worse. I once saw a kid get up from his chair all worked up and stand chest to chest with the teacher ready to fight or something.

    You wanna hear another ridiculous example? Once a teacher dared to take a cellphone from a 13-14 old girl who's fooling around with it in class. 5 minutes later the kid gets up and tries to take the cellphone from the teachers hands by force.

    This is to say that most teachers don't have any sense of authority over their students and god forbid if they even think to lay a hand on a student. He/she will be instantly fired.
    Back in the day, if a student was reprehended - physicly or not - he'd get home and also be by his parents. If was then there must have been a reason for it.

    You're free to disagree, but that's how i see it, both education and instruction are too soft nowadays.

  18. #18
    Every generation says the same thing about the youth in the generation succeeding them.

  19. #19
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    Wouldn't say they are out of control, but the sociaty is changing, at least in sweden. We are putting more pressure on the young individuals then what we did when I was younger(im 27), which will cause people to be more selfcentered... or even egotistical since you will have to fight harder to get what you want. I'm not really too found of that idea, I think individuals should be encourged to greatness and entreponours should be supported but not at the cost of solidarity with the weaker or less fortunate.

    I'm probably pretty OT with this but it's just something I've thought about.

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