World PvP requires emotion and pride

[Danur]

This is why despite the constant outpouring of gimmicky ideas to try and bait people on PvP servers into fighting over something, the one thing that will always work is genuine animosity and pride between players. Yes I mean griefing. And no I don't mean lowbie griefing.

You want to see astounding wars break out, where people keep coming back for more? Make all the entrances of raid instances no-fly zones with a long winding path to the actual portal. Obviously don't allow any queuing for raids outside of LFR. That road will be nothing but a path of bones, tears, and e-rage.

Flame on!

[Deleted]

Actually there's something true about this. 90% of the server population is hiding in zones where they are not attackable, aka Instances and Capital Cities.
Make them bleed for their instance, at least on PvP servers.

[voorshwa]

World PvP worked because before all the cross server pollenization (sp) people knew and talked smack on both sides of the faction. There was a rivalry actually being built on each server and you knew the names of the guys you just HAD to kill. Now you have nothing like that and one Gnome is the same as any other Gnome. That is why World PvP fails now.

V

[Danur]

World PvP worked because before all the cross server pollenization (sp) people knew and talked smack on both sides of the faction. There was a rivalry actually being built on each server and you knew the names of the guys you just HAD to kill. Now you have nothing like that and one Gnome is the same as any other Gnome. That is why World PvP fails now.

V

Amen. And yeah sorry Joe, my thread was kind of inspired by yours. Nothing personal, I've thought of countless ways myself to give people an incentive to get out into the world and fight over something. But as someone who ran a guild that focused heavily on PvP before the days of Rated BGs, there was nothing that got people mobilized and out for blood than knowing that someone on our hit-list from the other faction was caught out and about. The best would be when the other side had a gank squad brewing, and were out griefing players themselves, until we showed up guns blazing.

[Iakhovas]

This is why despite the constant outpouring of gimmicky ideas to try and bait people on PvP servers into fighting over something, the one thing that will always work is genuine animosity and pride between players. Yes I mean griefing. And no I don't mean lowbie griefing.

You want to see astounding wars break out, where people keep coming back for more? Make all the entrances of raid instances no-fly zones with a long winding path to the actual portal. Obviously don't allow any queuing for raids outside of LFR. That road will be nothing but a path of bones, tears, and e-rage.

Flame on!

This sounds too much like Blackrock Mountain! But yes I feel your pain. Those were the good old days. Knowing when guilds raid times were and waiting at thorium point to gank them off the flight master...not to mention killing the FM so they couldn't ninja escape. I miss those days! I hope some sparks are ignited come MoP I really do.

[Racerover]

World PvP worked because before all the cross server pollenization (sp) people knew and talked smack on both sides of the faction. There was a rivalry actually being built on each server and you knew the names of the guys you just HAD to kill. Now you have nothing like that and one Gnome is the same as any other Gnome. That is why World PvP fails now.

V

This x1000. I remember back in December of 2005 fighting against the opposite faction near Tarren Mill and it would last for hours upon hours. Damn good times.

[Lawlocoptor]

This is why despite the constant outpouring of gimmicky ideas to try and bait people on PvP servers into fighting over something, the one thing that will always work is genuine animosity and pride between players. Yes I mean griefing. And no I don't mean lowbie griefing.

You want to see astounding wars break out, where people keep coming back for more? Make all the entrances of raid instances no-fly zones with a long winding path to the actual portal. Obviously don't allow any queuing for raids outside of LFR. That road will be nothing but a path of bones, tears, and e-rage.

Flame on!

Actually there's something true about this. 90% of the server population is hiding in zones where they are not attackable, aka Instances and Capital Cities.
Make them bleed for their instance, at least on PvP servers.

World PvP worked because before all the cross server pollenization (sp) people knew and talked smack on both sides of the faction. There was a rivalry actually being built on each server and you knew the names of the guys you just HAD to kill. Now you have nothing like that and one Gnome is the same as any other Gnome. That is why World PvP fails now.

V

This is the one time when it feels warm and cosy to leave the rose tinted goggles on. You guys have hit the nail on the head with why world PvP is dead and irreversibly so.

On the bright side, at least we can still enjoy camping well populated farming routes? Wait, never mind, it's just bots half the time.

Good news though, apparently MoP will cause flying mounts to be unusable between 85-90 and the Devs want to focus on the Horde vs. Alliance conflict, so maybe we will get some good old fashioned World PvP going again. It will never have that same sparkle to it though... sigh.

[Danur]

This is the one time when it feels warm and cosy to leave the rose tinted goggles on. You guys have hit the nail on the head with why world PvP is dead and irreversibly so.

On the bright side, at least we can still enjoy camping well populated farming routes? Wait, never mind, it's just bots half the time.

Good news though, apparently MoP will cause flying mounts to be unusable between 85-90 and the Devs want to focus on the Horde vs. Alliance conflict, so maybe we will get some good old fashioned World PvP going again. It will never have that same sparkle to it though... sigh.

I'm still pretty sure that the flying restriction is only in the new zones and ends at 90, just like how it ended at 77 in WoTLK.

[CptAwesome]

The problem with World PvP is that the community these days doesn't do anything without reward. If there were massive battles on the way to raids they would just whine that it was holding them up from raiding and if they weren't raiding they still wouldn't leave the cities to join in and gank people. No one does anything just because any more, there always needs to be some kind of incentive.

Would be nice to see a sort of meta-quest where you get a cool mount for killing a LOT of players outside of BGs/arenas. The only problem would be the need for balanced server factions and a decent population. I play on Ravencrest EU and the horde would be too overwhelmed to ever get it, and the alliance would be fighting over far too few kills. I would love to see Blizzard being more proactive about server population and balance but that's a whole other discussion.

[Danur]

The problem with World PvP is that the community these days doesn't do anything without reward. If there were massive battles on the way to raids they would just whine that it was holding them up from raiding and if they weren't raiding they still wouldn't leave the cities to join in and gank people. No one does anything just because any more, there always needs to be some kind of incentive.

Would be nice to see a sort of meta-quest where you get a cool mount for killing a LOT of players outside of BGs/arenas. The only problem would be the need for balanced server factions and a decent population. I play on Ravencrest EU and the horde would be too overwhelmed to ever get it, and the alliance would be fighting over far too few kills. I would love to see Blizzard being more proactive about server population and balance but that's a whole other discussion.

Well I think you actually agree with me here. You prove my point. People don't just pvp without incentive unfortunately. The incentive I'm offering is the one that used to always be there. Anger and pride. Trying to do dailies in Sithilus but getting owned repeatedly and t-bagged? You call your friends in for revenge. Your raid is heading to Blackrock, but the major pvp guild from the other faction is waiting for you inside? Huge fight breaks out.

To those who would complain to Blizzard about being annoyed by all of this pesky world pvp in their day, the answer is simple. Why did you roll on a PvP server? Go transfer if you don't like being pestered by the War in World of WARcraft. The idea that World PvP should be relegated to playgrounds to fight in, makes those zones not much more different than battlegrounds. The true feeling of war and pride comes when you add the emotion of actual unpredictable, unprovoked fighting out in the open world between factions.

Make some neutral quest hubs with important vendors in them within no fly zones, and slap the flight masters across the map instead of inside the town. Put raids up on top of mountains with lots of places to lay ambush to raid groups making their way up to the top. Make questing and traveling in groups or with a buddy a smart move, as it's actually a dangerous world out there, and sticking to main roads is a good idea else you wind up pulling a boat-load of angry npcs and wildlife.

[CptAwesome]

Well I agree with your point about what's missing but I don't think your ideas will fix anything, they will just create a shitstorm of QQ and whining. The incentive you are offering isn't a material incentive and so for most of the community it doesn't exist. These are the people who don't even bother to assist when their capitals get raided. The same people that you see derping around in battlegrounds not helping and when you try to tell them what to do they just tell you they don't care about winning.

Do you really think all the WOTLK trash will see Blacrock Mountain 2 and go "Cool, I can hang arounD there instead of Stormwind and kill people because I like hurting people for no reason" or will they go "WAAHHHHH I WANT TO RAID AND I'VE BEEN CORPSECAMPED AND MC'ED INTO LAVA FOR THE FIFTH TIME, I DONT EVEN LIKE PVP BUT I ROLLED HERE COS THIS IS WHERE ENSIDIA PLAYS."

Judging by the average forum post, I think we both know what their reaction will be.

[Maldread]

World PvP worked because before all the cross server pollenization (sp) people knew and talked smack on both sides of the faction. There was a rivalry actually being built on each server and you knew the names of the guys you just HAD to kill. Now you have nothing like that and one Gnome is the same as any other Gnome. That is why World PvP fails now.

V

on small enough servers this tension still exists, just without the hype and low FPS of a big server. legit, i can get 3-4 GUILDS together (so like maybe 25 people total lol) to go gank alliance if the right alliance guys are there. and maybe 4-5 people on alliance if the right hordes were there too lol. alliance just sucks tho. its the attitude.

[Danur]

Well I agree with your point about what's missing but I don't think your ideas will fix anything, they will just create a shitstorm of QQ and whining. The incentive you are offering isn't a material incentive and so for most of the community it doesn't exist. These are the people who don't even bother to assist when their capitals get raided. The same people that you see derping around in battlegrounds not helping and when you try to tell them what to do they just tell you they don't care about winning.

Do you really think all the WOTLK trash will see Blacrock Mountain 2 and go "Cool, I can hang arounD there instead of Stormwind and kill people because I like hurting people for no reason" or will they go "WAAHHHHH I WANT TO RAID AND I'VE BEEN CORPSECAMPED AND MC'ED INTO LAVA FOR THE FIFTH TIME, I DONT EVEN LIKE PVP BUT I ROLLED HERE COS THIS IS WHERE ENSIDIA PLAYS."

Judging by the average forum post, I think we both know what their reaction will be.

You're right. And this is why Blizzard won't do it. But if they did, I'd resub in a heartbeat, just to add to the river of crybaby tears

[Voodoo Boyz]

Wait, you're upset because you don't have the opportunity to grief people anymore? And you wonder why world PvP is dead? Because when people want to just run around and kill people in PvP, they can just queue for a random BG.

This is why I'm on a PvE server, I can PvP when I want.

[NotValidAnymore]

Know why World PvP is dead? Rogues. And Ferals, but mostly Rogues.

Thank you, Rogues.

[Garrum]

on small enough servers this tension still exists, just without the hype and low FPS of a big server. legit, i can get 3-4 GUILDS together (so like maybe 25 people total lol) to go gank alliance if the right alliance guys are there. and maybe 4-5 people on alliance if the right hordes were there too lol. alliance just sucks tho. its the attitude.

Or it's the population numbers.

[Deleted]

Ahh, back in the good ol' days where you knew which paladin you had to kill to make you famous (talking about you Akope!) *dreams away*

Glory days !

[juggerneat]

There won't be world pvp anymore. Forget about it. Everything is so easy now, ppl got used to it. If they change anything on this matter, ppl will go nuts. Don't fall into lies. Mop will change nothing either. AV used to be fun. They removed all npcs now look at it. Factions are rushing by side. And this is a BG. What do you expect in World pvp anymore?

In classic afer bgs were introduced, ppl started waving each other in open world pvp. 5 years have passed and you are still dreaming about world pvp. It won't happen. It happened for a very small friction of time, those fights in hillsbrad, blackrock mountain, winterspring were nice but it's over.

[Danur]

There won't be world pvp anymore. Forget about it. Everything is so easy now, ppl got used to it. If they change anything on this matter, ppl will go nuts. Don't fall into lies. Mop will change nothing either. AV used to be fun. They removed all npcs now look at it. Factions are rushing by side. And this is a BG. What do you expect in World pvp anymore?

In classic afer bgs were introduced, ppl started waving each other in open world pvp. 5 years have passed and you are still dreaming about world pvp. It won't happen. It happened for a very small friction of time, those fights in hillsbrad, blackrock mountain, winterspring were nice but it's over.

Well two points in response to this.

1) I disagree. I remember quite fondly the Isle of Quel'Danas. There was constant epic fights at all hours of the day if you sought it out, and the tension was palpable as soon as you set foot there, and this is back in 2008. Why was it so successful for fostering world PvP? You had a daily quest hub, a 5man dungeon, the best mining nodes in the game, and a raid all crammed onto an island that doesn't permit flying, and is populated by countless level appropriate NPCs that kept people for the most part using the roads to avoid accidentally pulling half of the zone. People had to be on foot, and they often came in groups, as this was end-game for the whole server and we were stuck in the same sandbox.

2) You are 100% correct in that we will never see something like this again. People have gotten used to instant gratification. They have gotten used to a cushy development mentality for the game, where they are never pestered with anything that's annoying, whether it be tedious mat farming (just buy them with honor and/or Justice Points) or it be other players "griefing" (see: PvPing) them, when they want no part in it. The response from Blizzard back in the day was, "You chose to play on the PvP server. That's the point of them." But nowadays, the crybabies are all that's left of the playerbase, and those who miss the old days are mostly inactive or just log on to push their Arena ranking every week.

[Deleted]

To get people out of cities in MOP is simple, and it would be fun


Blizz places 1-2 shrines, far apart on pandaria.

Gong in each with a 15+ second cast time interupted by any damage.
getting cast complete on that shrine takes it for your faction.


Gongs give 5% increase in damage in all raids each along with extra rep for your faction from whatever quests.

Killing players in gong shrines gives a currencey similar to Halla tokens which can be traded for mounts / potions and other stuff. PvP encahnts and such



Bang there you go, a good excuse for pvp players and pve players alike to go and get these buffs for their faction.
The 10% increase dmg seems excessive but thats what makes it such a good incentive! Make it happen D: