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  1. #1

    Problem(s) with Dynamic Events

    considering all the breakthrough systems in gw2, i m super excited as hell about how gw2 will turn out.
    but the more i ponder about DE, the more the limitations of it stands out... with regards to canon lore.

    i think all DEs will only be restricted to "fringe stories" or "minor events".. however epic they may feel, they will not impact the main story or lore. small villages or farms or bays or ships or bridges that do not matter whether you managed to save them or not... because they need to be "cycle-able" and move from being attacked to destroyed to saved to rebuilt again so the cycle will continue.

    in my view, there will not be a DE where a major city or lore landmark is at stake. or if u have to make a decision that will affect a major lore character. those are not "cycle-able" events. we cannot have a lore character that was both say, saved by you and not saved by you at the same time. there can only be one outcome and the devs cannot leave it up to you to decide. thousands of other players could have chosen outcomes different from yours.

    what do u guys think about this?

  2. #2
    You're probably right that major cities will not be part of DE. The devs have said however that DE are 'real' in the sense that they don't just reset after x amount of time. They talked about an example where enemies take over a town, and they will hold that town until real players take it back, whether that take an hour or months.

  3. #3
    Brewmaster Neglesh's Avatar
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    Agreed on the major cities. BUT, they did say that certain events actually unlock quest chains or perhaps the NPC you saved from the bandits may visit your home instance. So yeah, the dynamic events are probably going to be a little minor, but at least it's an improved job of RIFT's, as in, you can actually solo them if it's 3:00am and no one is on. I think it will be a really nice feature levelling up and even at the end game, when I'm exploring all the continent, I can hop in and help out with the dynamic event.

    Looking forward to them, especially because I enjoyed RIFT's somewhat successful attempt ^^

  4. #4
    That's the problem when you build a game around the lore and not the lore around the game. You limit yourselves too much

  5. #5
    It's not really a big deal. The principle of games is to have great gameplay. Everything, and I mean everything, is second fiddle to gameplay.

  6. #6
    and here i thought the main thing with games was to have fun...

  7. #7
    well i m sorta a lore buff. i love it when the player is involved in an epic quest that impacts lore.

    it seems to me that DE cannot do that. only a linear questline can achieve that.
    DE is good for "relegated" side quests. it is perfect for players that do not want a linear style of play but not good for telling a story.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Questar View Post
    well i m sorta a lore buff. i love it when the player is involved in an epic quest that impacts lore.
    That's cool and all. But game design's first intention is to facilitate amazing gameplay.

    Defender doesn't need lore. It just plays amazing.

    Getting hung up on immersion over gameplay engagement is an actual problem.

  9. #9
    Remember, you have "personal story" in game. This is actual campaign which can be played solo or with a friend (in many cases the story even interacts with your friend). It's mostly determined by your choices in game and those made at character creation screen. I think this is what you are looking for. It literally drips with lore sauce. Best thing is that there are many paths through it and you may never get the same story when you level up another character (especially when you choose different races).

    Another thing is that DEs help build YOUR story. For main classic storyline you have "personal story", but DEs are shaping your character. Thing is, everyone sooner or later will finish the "campaign", BUT not everyone fought at Shriek lake fort while it was invaded. Game saves your every move (this is confirmed) so your journal will be filled with different story/events than your friend's. That's just huge - and not only for RP reasons, bragging is a part of every mmo and this time around I will be able to brag that I'm a Tornhill campaign veteran and not just that my sword has +5 more str... Sure, people may try to re-launch particular events, but considering how many of them are linked, that's just might not be so easy.

    There is one more thing, I'm desperately looking for the source of this statement, but can't really find it atm - I remember words like "we are not afraid to fire off unique DEs that might never appear again".

  10. #10
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    DE's are not meant to "tell a story" They are meant to show that the world is "living" and changing and isn't some static world like some other games (IE, wow, SWTOR, etc, etc, etc). The story is told via your personal story, that will be the linear path you're talking about that will move lore forward and actual make some changes. There will probably also be patches and such to change up events, or just add new ones, or hell maybe change events in a zone all together, we don't know yet, we only know that they WILL be adding events and SOME events will be STEALTH PATCHED into the game...

    ---------- Post added 2011-12-06 at 01:37 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Magzilla View Post
    That's the problem when you build a game around the lore and not the lore around the game. You limit yourselves too much
    GW2 is 250 years in the future... what lore are they bound to? All they have to do is make sure that all the stuff in GW1 is where it's supposed to be in GW2 (it could be sunk like temple of ages, or regrown like Ascalon), but it just needs to be there. Other then that, we don't know what's supposed to happen, what will happen, or anything else of the sort...

    For all we know logan could find out he was enchanted by the queen become furious and attempt kill her in cold blooded furry, only to be filled with arrows and blasted to bits with mesmer magic!!!! Will that likely happen? HAH, i wish, but doubt it ever will!!
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  11. #11
    Scarab Lord Blznsmri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    -Snip-
    What is it with you and making avatars of LoL champs that totally wreck my shit?!


    OT: Nope, no Lore altering DE's. Everything story based will happen in your personal story, there are a few DE chains that are supplemental, like the Shatterer and Tquatel (sp?) events, but otherwise, save the hamlet, kill the bandits, fend off the rampaging centaur.
    Quote Originally Posted by SW:TOR
    Jokerseven - Kinetic Combat Shadow - Praxeum - Canderous Ordo
    Ce'lia - Combat Sentinel - Praxeum - Canderous Ordo
    Sentinel PVE Basics for the two Specs that matter

  12. #12
    hmm i did read and watch about personal story. i m confused about it though.
    is it persistent in the world or instanced/phased?

    i can see some problems if its not instanced/phased... players making different decisions about saving the orphanage will have to different view of the orphanage later.
    and if its instanced/phased then it means the personal stories will have to take place mostly in closed areas and not in the world at large. does that mean the personal stories will mostly take place in underground/isolated islands/rooms/etc?

  13. #13
    Scarab Lord Blznsmri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Questar View Post
    hmm i did read and watch about personal story. i m confused about it though.
    is it persistent in the world or instanced/phased?
    Instanced.
    Quote Originally Posted by SW:TOR
    Jokerseven - Kinetic Combat Shadow - Praxeum - Canderous Ordo
    Ce'lia - Combat Sentinel - Praxeum - Canderous Ordo
    Sentinel PVE Basics for the two Specs that matter

  14. #14
    Fluffy Kitten Bloodhunter's Avatar
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    In my own opinion I would love to see a DE where some enemy/dragon/big something is bashing the main capital down, if people won't do anything he will leave big parts of the town in ruins and you get to rebuild it or something similar.

    I'm not seeing the problem why this shouldn't be considered. But one thing in mind, the game isn't in beta, we don't know all DE's and we don't know about their future plans. We can only hope =)

    Tomoko Eternal Life, Kilik Eternal Sun, Eira Frozen Hearted, Ashara Emberlight,
    Vuug The Deceiver, Grash Gravebuilder, Asgaut Divine Soul, Lera Dreamstealer

  15. #15
    I think the importance, for me, of participating in a DE that had some permanence would be the sense of wanting to tell people you were there when it happened. Maybe they can engender that sense via rare or really epic events.

  16. #16
    to me, all DEs must be cycle-able. they must be re-cycled if every player is to have a chance at experiencing them.

    say we have an epic event that happens once.. like a major invasion of a major city that changes its looks... if it happens only once and for a short time, what is gonna happen for the majority of players that were sleeping/at work/doing something else?
    "oh man, u shoulda seen it... the demons attacked and this and that happened and this guy killed that and that guy died! u missed out man." "... but it was my grandma's birthday!"

    anyone else sees the pros and cons of DEs here?

  17. #17
    Pandaren Monk Maarius's Avatar
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    something official for you:
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Flannum, Lead Designer of GW2
    Eric: Players cannot make permanent impact on the persistent world. They can however make persistent changes. This means that when a player destroys an enemy fortress it will stay destroyed until the enemy manages to rebuild it, which the player will have the opportunity to stop if they desire. In their personal story players have the chance to have a permanent impact on instanced areas.

    Each player has a home instance which changes permanently to reflect things that the player has done in their personal story. In addition to their home instance there are several other important instances that are affected by the players actions.
    http://www.pcpowerplay.com.au/2011/1...re-be-dragons/
    if you're new here you should really read this ^^
    Last edited by Maarius; 2011-12-06 at 12:46 PM.

  18. #18
    I am Murloc! Mif's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psilo View Post
    In GW2, YOU are the lore.
    /thumbup

  19. #19
    Over 9000! Arrowstormen's Avatar
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    GW2 and it's DE system makes it sound like the lovechild of WoW and Skyrim.
    Belief can become reality!

  20. #20
    Fluffy Kitten Bloodhunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Questar View Post
    to me, all DEs must be cycle-able. they must be re-cycled if every player is to have a chance at experiencing them.

    say we have an epic event that happens once.. like a major invasion of a major city that changes its looks... if it happens only once and for a short time, what is gonna happen for the majority of players that were sleeping/at work/doing something else?
    "oh man, u shoulda seen it... the demons attacked and this and that happened and this guy killed that and that guy died! u missed out man." "... but it was my grandma's birthday!"

    anyone else sees the pros and cons of DEs here?
    Yep, DE's will be cycle-able, but there's no telling in when, could be hours/days/weeks/months for a DE to return, and that's a good thing. You don't want to get bored by them just because they show up 5 times in a row within a few hours.

    Tomoko Eternal Life, Kilik Eternal Sun, Eira Frozen Hearted, Ashara Emberlight,
    Vuug The Deceiver, Grash Gravebuilder, Asgaut Divine Soul, Lera Dreamstealer

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