Shadow Word: Death and t13 2pc.

[Hesp]

Regarding casting SW:D as a priority over DP above 25% and during movement:

Given that during any movement you're going to want to stagger your DP casts as DP, SW:D, DP, PW:S, DP, *out of instants =/* to avoid the "A more powerful spell is already active" nonsense, you'll almost always cast SW:D anyways unless you are moving for less than a gcd. I still wouldn't prioritize SW:D over DP for movement above 25% even if it turns out that it does better damage for the exact same reason that the Fury Warr rotation is focused around Bloodthirst and not Raging Blow: making a long cd ability the lynchpin of your rotation will cause problems. As long as you move far enough that you will need two instants to fill you casts, it will always be a DP and SW:D in some order. Since you will not cast SW:D above 25%, getting SW:D on cd early does not increase dps. However, move for more than 2 globals and you will be forced to use PW:S as your third cast if you had casted SW:D first, whereas you will get another DP in if you casted DP first. You will still only get 1 SW:D in unless you are moving for more than 10 seconds (god forbid), so casting SW:D first nets you nothing in the long run and comes at the cost of exhausting your instants prematurely and reducing the number of DP's you will be able to cast.

If you only need to move for <1 gcd and SW:D turns out to be a more powerful ability, go for it, but be sure there's no dps buff running out that would make refreshing DP a more attractive option.

[Sakamae]

The big value of this set bonus is the fact that you won't kill yourself double tapping it sub 25%. I was so incredibly frustrated on our Madness attempts, because I couldn't use it hardly at all for fear of dying. The entirety of p2 is sub 25%, but because of the damage bonus from Kalecgos and the tic coming out from DW, our healers just can't take the extra damage if I'm not in dream when I cast SWD. This will be even more important in heroic modes where DPS enrage timers will be a lot tighter, Ultraxion and Zon'ozz especially.

[chrisisvacant]

Incidentally, I don't think I notice much damage coming from my SW at all due to odd UI lag ("That spell isn't ready yet" when it obviously is).

[Venith]

<snip>

I don't know if it's just me, but I haven't had the "a more powerful spell is already active" happen in this expansion even while spamming it on the run. So, either I get lucky with Int procs not falling off while running or something else is going on. I've never had to alter my movement rotation.

[Hesp]

I don't know if it's just me, but I haven't had the "a more powerful spell is already active" happen in this expansion even while spamming it on the run. So, either I get lucky with Int procs not falling off while running or something else is going on. I've never had to alter my movement rotation.

Lucky you then; I have never been able to cast DP twice in a row without some delay between them. If I'm an outlier in this phenomenon, then disregard my post as the idle musings of a bored priest waiting for servers to come back up.

[Keosen]

I don't know if it's just me, but I haven't had the "a more powerful spell is already active" happen in this expansion even while spamming it on the run. So, either I get lucky with Int procs not falling off while running or something else is going on. I've never had to alter my movement rotation.

This "more powerfull " thing happens every time you try to recast DP as soon as it goes of cd and with as soon as i mean in a half of a second window, so even if you manage to hit a perfect double DP the chances of landing a triple DP is pretty slim without losing at least 1 global cooldown in total. due to the "more powerfull" bug.

The DPS gain or loss of using SW D instead of DP should be insignificant enough to go with whatever you like or maybe with SW D only due to mana gain.

[Yvaelle]

Interesting! So the bonus is basically useless and it doesn't actually make it viable outside of the execute phase? Lame.

Right, while most people saw the shadow bonuses and were super excited because they read "one of our spells does 55% more damage and mind blast is always huge" - in practice both our tier 13 bonuses are borderline terrible in terms of dps increases - to the point where I'm not even sure its worth breaking h12t4p until we have h13t2p at least, maybe after the nerf - maybe.

[Zuziza]

The big value of this set bonus is the fact that you won't kill yourself double tapping it sub 25%. I was so incredibly frustrated on our Madness attempts, because I couldn't use it hardly at all for fear of dying. The entirety of p2 is sub 25%, but because of the damage bonus from Kalecgos and the tic coming out from DW, our healers just can't take the extra damage if I'm not in dream when I cast SWD. This will be even more important in heroic modes where DPS enrage timers will be a lot tighter, Ultraxion and Zon'ozz especially.

I'm kinda sad it took that many posts for someone to bring this up. There's always been QQ about taking damage during the last 25%, especially a the number of fights that an spriest would have a high chance of killing themselves. It was never intended to do anything about the use of SW: D >25%, it was only addressing the QQ.

Right, while most people saw the shadow bonuses and were super excited because they read "one of our spells does 55% more damage and mind blast is always huge" - in practice both our tier 13 bonuses are borderline terrible in terms of dps increases - to the point where I'm not even sure its worth breaking h12t4p until we have h13t2p at least, maybe after the nerf - maybe.

I'm not sure the 15% MB damage would be enough to offset the increase in stats if you have 378 t12, but it might for Ht12 just because of the closeness in ilvl. It's really not a huge increase from 391 to 397. I think even 397 4pc t13 might be worth breaking 4pc Ht12; those extra orbs with the amount of mastery we're starting to get to would be bomb.

[Bischof]

I had h12t4p and got through lfr the t13 boots and hands and i changed it for followning reasons:

1. SW: D sucks bad on fights like Deathwing where you nuke with 160k SW: Ds around. It was a pain in the ass to look at your HP if you can double tap it or not. An suizide execute. This sucked till cata launch.
Schimaeron execute? No way.
Halfus? Self own.
Chogall? Ups, no my fault that the tentacle focused me after my double tap.
Nef hc with full buff? Hit em hard and me harder.
Conclave? Hey heal, look, more raiddmg at the frost ultimate
Al akir double tap and knockback dmg? pew pew

Fireland:
Beth: Why did you died?...oh wait, dont say it
Ryolith (before nerfs): I got some bad news for you
Alys (if you was the one who was in the air): So much haste and crit, y u no spam MF
Baleroc: KABUUUUUUUUUUUUMMMM (but i must say, i loved to kill myself at 1% with a 200k nuke, always worth a laugh)

2. The gloves and legs got much mastery. Losed 22 int, 80haste and 180crit but gained 207 mastery and gained a real execute.
Deathwing is the encounter where you will love this. All buffs rolling and hit DW with 300k SW: D right in his face and you stand there like a boss^^


I know, its not the best bonus, but its not the worst too especially if I compare it to the fights where i counldt use it

[Deleted]

The best part about it is the backlash reduction imo, as it is now, sometimes you can't even use it sub 25% when theres often a burnphase with crazy dmg. So in some cases, the set bonus gives us an execute ability, yay!

[Yvaelle]

The best part about it is the backlash reduction imo, as it is now, sometimes you can't even use it sub 25% when theres often a burnphase with crazy dmg. So in some cases, the set bonus gives us an execute ability, yay!

I mean yes, this is nice - and yes having orbs off the pull is nice - but in terms of dps these bonuses suck - its odd to get excited over bonuses that temporarily solve weaknesses in our class as "dps bonus because otherwise you couldn't execute" or "dps bonus because orbs dont work as expected" when all other bonuses are almost always "this hits harder, this spawns pets, this adds a dot, this lasts longer" etc.

[Annesh]

The math on this is simple.

Currently my SWD hits for around 5k. With 2pc SWD will hit for about 7.5k. DP hits for around 10k.

In most universes, 10k > 7.5k.

[Bender]

I mean yes, this is nice - and yes having orbs off the pull is nice - but in terms of dps these bonuses suck - its odd to get excited over bonuses that temporarily solve weaknesses in our class as "dps bonus because otherwise you couldn't execute" or "dps bonus because orbs dont work as expected" when all other bonuses are almost always "this hits harder, this spawns pets, this adds a dot, this lasts longer" etc.

I agree sort of. There will always be classes who have weak setbonuses each tier, hopefully it's kept at a healthy balance over time though. Both setbonuses are a good quality of life upgrade for spriests, but one could ask the question why those set bonuses should be there in the first place. The SW: D backlash damage has been a thorn in the side since cata launch (can't comment on it's state before that as I didn't play spriest then) and it really should have been scrapped considering how SW: D works in cata. I have killed myself several times with that stupid spell either because I didn't pay enough attention or because my doubletap came together with an unforseen burst of encounter damage. I'd have to admit that at least one of my SW: D suicides came down to pure tardness (hello botching our first H baleroc kill by instantly killing myself at 24%) but the mechanic is stupid to begin with. What other class have to use their execute sparingly in case of additional encounter damage buffs and shadow dmg debuffs to the player? Baleroc for instance pretty much disallows use of SW: D completely aside from the very short periods in between tormented falling off and you picking it up again.

That said, I really enjoy the 2piece as of now. The piece of mind I get by knowing that I won't commit SW: D suicide is very nice.

[Yvaelle]

The math on this is simple.

Currently my SWD hits for around 5k. With 2pc SWD will hit for about 7.5k. DP hits for around 10k.

In most universes, 10k > 7.5k.

Also this - we won't be using it on the move unless our loss of shadowfiend reduction causes so many mana problems that we need to Masochism ourselves more.

[Kelesti]

Also this - we won't be using it on the move unless our loss of shadowfiend reduction causes so many mana problems that we need to Masochism ourselves more.

Also, not taking into the account of the Devouring Plague delay bug.

DP > Death, yes. DP + dead air time waiting to spam DP again is NOT > Death

[Height]

Quick question: Should i wait for 4 piece T13 before I break my T12 4 piece? Or should i got straight for the two 2 set bonuses when that becomes available? I'm guessing the second.

[Myah]

I'm loving not having to worry as much with using SWD below 25%.

[Arlee]

Quick question: Should i wait for 4 piece T13 before I break my T12 4 piece? Or should i got straight for the two 2 set bonuses when that becomes available? I'm guessing the second.

Are you finding that you are holding back on sw: d in execute phases due to being worried you are going to kill yourself or have you killed yourself with sw: d an execute phase?

If the answer to either is yes then get t13 2pc asap. If no then you might as well wait. My purely speculative and anecdotal hunch, is that for people really pushing heroics/pushing further in the raid than their raid group might really be ready for will probably find that getting the t13 2pc a necessity.

[Elicium]

I had the 3 piece T12h (plus 1 T12 normal) and I broke it for 2 piece T13 normal and 2 piece T12h and I haven't yet had cause to regret it. My only regret is that I'm slightly below where my haste used to be and I really want to get back to 3203 haste but that should be doable as soon as I have some time to do some VP farming on alts and with two more drops from normal mode DS. T12 4 piece bonus has been nerfed and while it's still nice I'm not sure it's worth the stat gains especially in a raid where you're getting DI.

Anyone have a chance to fool around in raid and come to a similar or different conclusion?

[Height]

Are you finding that you are holding back on sw: d in execute phases due to being worried you are going to kill yourself or have you killed yourself with sw: d an execute phase?

If the answer to either is yes then get t13 2pc asap. If no then you might as well wait. My purely speculative and anecdotal hunch, is that for people really pushing heroics/pushing further in the raid than their raid group might really be ready for will probably find that getting the t13 2pc a necessity.

I never have that problem, so it looks like I'll have to wait until I get 4 pieces to use the new tier. Lame.