Hardmodes and complaining

[scdogg44]

So I saw a lot of debate and complaining going on about the nerf to Firelands, my question which just dawned on me, if people are so butthurt about the nerfs, whats stopping them from making it a challenge and going in there and 20 manning it? Make it a challenge if you want to have fun.

I'm sure this will start a big ol debate but, what the hell, what isn't anymore?

[arden714]

It's not about having fun or even the "challenge" of it. The people complaining are the ones who killed it when it was hard and don't want scrubbier players getting kills they otherwise wouldn't have gotten.

[scdogg44]

It's not about having fun or even the "challenge" of it. The people complaining are the ones who killed it when it was hard and don't want scrubbier players getting kills they otherwise wouldn't have gotten.

Yeah but I read a lot where people crying, it isn't a challenge anymore, I WANT A FIGHT!

[Kurzior]

It's not about having fun or even the "challenge" of it. The people complaining are the ones who killed it when it was hard and don't want scrubbier players getting kills they otherwise wouldn't have gotten.

That's a big part of it.

On the other side of that too, there are plenty of good guilds that just don't have the ability to put 20-30 hours of raiding in each week to compete for world firsts. They still want to be able to say 'we killed the same boss as Paragon', even if it takes them a few months to put in the necessary amount of time. Nerfs like the firelands ones effectively stripped that possibility from them.

[Makoblade]

It's rather frustrating to learn a fight in it's original incarnation, execute rather elaborate and precise strategies, and then later have blizzard say "btw, everyone can kill this, skill no longer required."

Players seeing content is great. That's what LFR and Normal modes are for. It's just kind of annoying that anyone who puts in minimal effort is afforded the same prestige as those who earned it properly.

[Count Zero]

It's rather frustrating to learn a fight in it's original incarnation, execute rather elaborate and precise strategies, and then later have blizzard say "btw, everyone can kill this, skill no longer required."

Players seeing content is great. That's what LFR and Normal modes are for. It's just kind of annoying that anyone who puts in minimal effort is afforded the same prestige as those who earned it properly.

If those folks who did the planning,etc, were good enough, they would have gotten it before the nerf, just like the best guilds in the world.

People who are mad should only be mad at themselves for not being world-class. It's funny they whine and cry about other folks being able to get the kill, when they weren't able to do it before the nerfs. They're mad because they want Blizz to give them more time to join the big boys/girls, because without that extra time they are at the kids' table like the rest of us. Their fault for not being good/fast enough.

[scdogg44]

That's a big part of it.

On the other side of that too, there are plenty of good guilds that just don't have the ability to put 20-30 hours of raiding in each week to compete for world firsts. They still want to be able to say 'we killed the same boss as Paragon', even if it takes them a few months to put in the necessary amount of time. Nerfs like the firelands ones effectively stripped that possibility from them.

Makes sense, but how often do top guilds go back to old tier to down heroics, once content is fresh? Take DS for example, the only reason top guilds are going back is for the staff and mount.

You also have to look at it this way, Their are about 4 types of raiding guilds.

Really casual (LFR)
Casual (Normal)
Semi Hardcore (Heroics, they can kill about 50%-75% pre nerf
Pro (Heroics and world firsts and such)

I used to play somewhere in the semi hardcore range back in TBC and Wrath.

They want people to see content, they fixed that for the casual players with the LFR. Done deal, finished!

Now what you have left are the people who want that Heroic kill of Rag, and have been knocking there heads on their keyboards for quite sometime now, and just want the damn thing dead.

Don't you think its fair that people like that get to see that content seeing how much time they have dedicated to it? I know this statement will piss people off, but I think its fair to say if its been 5-6 months and they haven't down it, they most likely wont until a nerf happens, or they out gear it.

---------- Post added 2011-12-06 at 06:15 PM ----------

It's rather frustrating to learn a fight in it's original incarnation, execute rather elaborate and precise strategies, and then later have blizzard say "btw, everyone can kill this, skill no longer required."

Players seeing content is great. That's what LFR and Normal modes are for. It's just kind of annoying that anyone who puts in minimal effort is afforded the same prestige as those who earned it properly.

Also to quote you, and by all means this isn't a bash, but did you kill heroic Rag pre anything?

[Spotnick]

Hopefully the LFR + easiness of the regular right now means they won't nerf Dragon Soul.

Quite honestly, it was a huge disappointment when we were working on Alysrazor hard mode for 3 weeks and the nerfs came out and we one shot it, one shot Majordmo and then I believe 5 shot Baleroc.

If they are going to nerf it, a progressive approach like ICC would be a lot better. There was absolutely no fun in killing everything, knowing you'd hit Ragnaros for 66% of your raid from now on because that's the only thing left.

I don't think it's normal that my "casual raid", who killed Nefarian on the last day before Firelands came out and barely did Halfus hard mode, who killed Ragnaros on the last day prior to the nerfs was able to clear 7/8 of Dragon Soul on 4h of raiding.

[Makoblade]

Also to quote you, and by all means this isn't a bash, but did you kill heroic Rag pre anything?

Kill Rag pre-nerf? No. We had only met the DPS checks in 1-3 prior to the nerf, but then changed our entire strategy into cheesing the fight and doing only 1 meteor since the entire fight melted for free. The fact that the nerfs made heroic rag freely accessible to any guild with only moderate coordination and skill was more frustrating than the fact that rag himself was turned into an easy fight.

If those folks who did the planning,etc, were good enough, they would have gotten it before the nerf, just like the best guilds in the world.

People who are mad should only be mad at themselves for not being world-class. It's funny they whine and cry about other folks being able to get the kill, when they weren't able to do it before the nerfs. They're mad because they want Blizz to give them more time to join the big boys/girls, because without that extra time they are at the kids' table like the rest of us. Their fault for not being good/fast enough.

It's not so much about the guilds that were working on it but didn't complete it before the nerf, so much as it is the ones that did but are now suddenly joined by unskilled players getting their free kills. Heroics are supposed to be the challenging content, and it fails to do so when anyone can walk in an d easily complete them all while the content is current.

[Gondlem]

Working on a boss for many weeks and being close to a kill and then having it drastically reduced in difficulty is frustrating. It deprives you of the sense of overcoming a difficult obstable, which is the reason most serious raiders play the game. It's not hard to understand.

[Sillinoob]

Question is, why nerf it? Herioc modes are the only thing that are still there for hardcore raiders and decent raiders to always have something to do, always something to work for, which we want. So, why nerf it? What is the point of nerfing herioc rag? Think about it. The content has been seen on normal anyways, the boss killed on normal. Why should hardmodes ever receive nerfs if it is possible to kill it.

Only bugs and unkillable bosses should be fixed/nerfed. Herioc raids should never be nerfed. There is no reason too. The only reason is "achievements and items" for players who are not skilled enough to actually do it. It just does not make sense.

[Stefanish]

Working on a boss for many weeks and being close to a kill and then having it drastically reduced in difficulty is frustrating. It deprives you of the sense of overcoming a difficult obstable, which is the reason most serious raiders play the game. It's not hard to understand.

Working on a boss for many weeks is frustrating....