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  1. #1

    HOLY: Having big issues with rotation and mana

    As the thread suggests, I am holy raiding DS and having difficulties trying to manage mana while also trying to keep up my HPS compared to the druid and resto shaman in raid. We run a 10 man DS and Im the only priest in raid. We dont assign tank/raid heals, which may be part of the problem, because Im constantly questioning which Chakra to have up, along with spamming heals and renews on the tank/OT, while also trying to keep up the 8 other players in raid. My gear is a little low, but still running a 377 item level with 5305 intellect, and 2955 spirit. Link to armory is below. Could anyone help me out with what their spell rotation is, or what I should be using? Im currently just casting PoH, along with using PoM and CoH when theyre on cool down, along with the serenity on the ground whenever that CD is up (usually trying to cast on most densely popualted area of raid members). Spamming PoH is not even close to being mana efficient, so maybe theres a disconnect/lack of int/spirit, or its not the right thing to do. Again, any help would be great. Thanks!







    Search Azö on WoW armories, cant link for some reason.

  2. #2
    There is no such thing as a "rotation" for healers. Using PoM every time you can will contribute a large amount to your healing. Putting yourself in the AoE chakra for the majority of the fights will help. The single target is much more useful for tank healing though you can switch back and forth based on your preference. While in the AoE Chakra your CoH will be a lot more effective, but should only be used when at least 3 players in the raid need it. PoH is our staple ability, but again should only be used on 3 or more players in the group (I prefer using is when I see an entire group has taken a chunk of damage).

    What really helps the most is communication. Don't worry so much about meters, but discuss with your other healers who is prioritizing what. Mana management won't be a problem when each healer knows what role they need to fill. It also helps to sync up your CD's in order to get the max efficiency from each of them.

  3. #3
    Azo,

    I can't speak for everyone, but I know I find it much easier to heal when we set some sort of healing assignments. Not that whoever is tank healing can't help with the raid when they have the opportunity, but its nice to know you have somebody concentrating on the tanks to eliminate potential overheal, or risk a tank dying because everyone assumed someone else would take care of it.

    As far as spell priority goes seems like you are using the right key spells, but be sure to use them when appropriate. Probably a little obvious, but there is no sense in spamming PoH if only one or two people require healing. Be sure to make use more appropriate spells in those situations. I know the recent buff to Sanctuary has made it a little more appealing to 10m raiders, but keeping it on cooldown would really depend on the fight, and whether or not the amount of healing would be worth the mana cost. Its hard to judge without logs, so make sure you're not forgetting about your hymn, fiend, and mana pots. Also, seems you are missing just about all your enchants and reforges. Those could help out too

    I'm sure I missed a few things, but just took a quick glance. Hopefully that will help, if even in the smallest.
    Holy is a lot of fun, with a wide range of tools at hand.
    Best of luck!

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Azovax View Post
    As the thread suggests, I am holy raiding DS and having difficulties trying to manage mana while also trying to keep up my HPS compared to the druid and resto shaman in raid. We run a 10 man DS and Im the only priest in raid. We dont assign tank/raid heals, which may be part of the problem, because Im constantly questioning which Chakra to have up, along with spamming heals and renews on the tank/OT, while also trying to keep up the 8 other players in raid.
    I'm in a similar healing makeup as you are, and I kick the resto shaman and druid asses. I'd recommend the following:

    Light AoE dmg can be handled by Serenity chakra easily. In cases like that, you'll want to use Binding Heal, Gheal, Fheal, and roll renews on 3 or so people with direct heal refreshes. Keep Renews on tanks, and one or two elsewhere and use PoM on the tanks, otherwise direct heals. By all means CoH whenever, it's a great spell despite Serenity. Just play smart, and consider overheals in any spell you chose to use. Serenity in general is very great throughput and the mana efficiency is definitely there due to Serendipity, SoL procs, and free refreshes on Renew. It's a package deal that's all win, imo. The most mana efficient spell in your arsenal at this point is Serenity itself. Spam that sucker, it's practically free in mana cost. Fantastic HPM.

    When the AoE dmg gets intense enough where the above can't keep up, THEN you should swap to Sanctuary. And even then, only really do it if you know for sure the AoE dmg increase is sustained for at least 20 seconds. Chakra is a 30 sec CD and you'll want to make sure your Sanctuary investment gets a full use, and the moment it isn't useful, you'll want to go back to Serenity. Excellent examples of this in DS are (Beach ball boss clump phase, Red & Green Globule, late in the fight with Ultraxion, etc.). In these situations, Divine Hymn is the new go to spell. It has a 3 min CD, try and use it at least twice a fight!!

    While it's open to some debate, I find 10% self haste to be plenty ample for the content on 10 man. EoL is a very good mastery that affects all your direct heals, and if you're in Serenity a lot, it ends up being a fantastic HPM way of increasing your throughput. Which means you don't need Spirit nearly as much as a heavier Haste build does. I also find that with Chain Heals and Rejuv/WG flying around, that PoH has reduced usage (compared to 25 man) b/c opportunities where at least 3+ people in a group can take the full effect of PoH is reduced.

    My gear is a little low, but still running a 377 item level with 5305 intellect, and 2955 spirit. Link to armory is below. Could anyone help me out with what their spell rotation is, or what I should be using? Im currently just casting PoH, along with using PoM and CoH when theyre on cool down, along with the serenity on the ground whenever that CD is up (usually trying to cast on most densely popualted area of raid members). Spamming PoH is not even close to being mana efficient, so maybe theres a disconnect/lack of int/spirit, or its not the right thing to do. Again, any help would be great. Thanks!
    The only thing I'll add to what I've said already is that you should try and bank some mana for "great need". At the end of the day keeping people alive ( especially on a 10 man!!) trumps HPS or meter position. Do what's needed and don't worry about rotation or priority spell casts.
    Last edited by Themos; 2011-12-07 at 08:28 PM.

  5. #5
    When casting CoH & PoM, am I suppose to be targetting the players that have lowest health? Because ive just been casting it on myself thinking it'll just ping to everyone in raid tht needs it, which im pretty sure is te wrong thing to do. Great responses though, I really appreciate it.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Azovax View Post
    When casting CoH & PoM, am I suppose to be targetting the players that have lowest health? Because ive just been casting it on myself thinking it'll just ping to everyone in raid tht needs it, which im pretty sure is te wrong thing to do. Great responses though, I really appreciate it.
    PoM should almost always be used on the tank. With the glyph that first tick will heal him/her for an extra 60% plus its a target you know will almost always be taking damage throughout the fight. As for CoH you want to target it on the person who is in range of others who can benefit from it. An example being casting it on a someone near the melee group so other melee's benefit. CoH has a fairly large range and it is a smart heal so you can use it almost every time you see multiple people low.

  7. #7
    Herald of the Titans Ynna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azovax View Post
    When casting CoH & PoM, am I suppose to be targeting the players that have lowest health? Because I've just been casting it on myself thinking it'll just ping to everyone in raid tht needs it, which I'm pretty sure is the wrong thing to do. Great responses though, I really appreciate it.
    CoH should be used on clusters of players, so you hit as much people as possible. If you tend to stand in the middle of the group, targeting yourself is a good idea. If you want to heal up the melee, the tank is a good idea.
    For PoM you generally want to hit someone who'll take damage pretty soon, which is usually the tank.

    Also, try getting healing assignments, it will improve for your entire healing team and will often reduce overall wipes. And it's easier to get a view on what is working and what isn't.
    Retired Holy Priest
    As a rule, I try to act on the internet as I would in real life. If I have offended you, feel free to point it out. Unless I meant to offend you, I will probably apologize.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Azovax View Post
    When casting CoH & PoM, am I suppose to be targetting the players that have lowest health? Because ive just been casting it on myself thinking it'll just ping to everyone in raid tht needs it, which im pretty sure is te wrong thing to do. Great responses though, I really appreciate it.
    Reread the tooltip, it's a 'party' based heal. Meaning if you target someone in group#2 with it, everyone in that group will be healed by it (including pets!)
    If you can get or ask for an Assist so you can "fix" groups for PoH, do it. It helps a ton. Group all the melee and tanks in group 1, and the ranged DPS and healers in group #2. Usually most ground based AoE dmg happens in an area either at and around the boss or off in the distance somewhere:

    1) If it's at and around the boss's hit box, PoH/CoH group #1
    2) If it happens at a distance somewhere but two or less people are only hit, use direct heals (if you're one of them, hit the other person with Binding Heal)
    3) If it happens at a distance somewhere and three or more people in group 2 are hit by it, then you can PoH that group.

    Keep in mind that if you set up groups where ranged DPS and healers are together, a healer's reflex is to heal themselves first, so even if 3 people got hit and all three of you are healers, you're better of ignoring the other two (unless they're dangerously low of course) and Binding Heal someone in group 1.. especially a tank b/c you can refresh Renew with Serenity chakra.

    Keep in mind that Binding Heal in general is all sorts of awesome b/c aside from the HPS and HPM wonder, it also gives you a stack of Serendipity which saves you mana on your next PoH or Gheals. Synergy =)

    ---------- Post added 2011-12-07 at 03:55 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ynna View Post
    CoH should be used on clusters of players, so you hit as much people as possible. If you tend to stand in the middle of the group, targeting yourself is a good idea. If you want to heal up the melee, the tank is a good idea.
    You can also center the spell off of mob targets, including bosses.

  9. #9
    The Patient tehmark's Avatar
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    I've always been holy and I think I know what is going on here. You have all three of you trying to heal the raid and then you're blowing your emergency heals when healing the tank because nobody is really assigned spots. Honestly I'd go disc if I were you, heal the tank, then let the other two fight for HPS. You'll have a real job and you'll be able to manage your mana because you will be able to predict how much mana you'll need and when you'll need it.

    ---------- Post added 2011-12-07 at 03:35 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ynna View Post
    CoH should be used on clusters of players, so you hit as much people as possible. If you tend to stand in the middle of the group, targeting yourself is a good idea. If you want to heal up the melee, the tank is a good idea.
    For PoM you generally want to hit someone who'll take damage pretty soon, which is usually the tank.

    Also, try getting healing assignments, it will improve for your entire healing team and will often reduce overall wipes. And it's easier to get a view on what is working and what isn't.
    CoH has a 30 yard range on the smart heal (maybe 40) so your argument is invalid
    Last edited by tehmark; 2011-12-07 at 09:39 PM.

  10. #10
    Holy tank heals perfectly fine this tier, it did last tier as well.

    And assignments aren't really necessary on 10 man. The trick is to work with the other healers, not against them.

  11. #11
    You're using a Rotation for healing...? o.O

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Themos View Post
    Reread the tooltip, it's a 'party' based heal. Meaning if you target someone in group#2 with it, everyone in that group will be healed by it (including pets!)
    If you can get or ask for an Assist so you can "fix" groups for PoH, do it. It helps a ton. Group all the melee and tanks in group 1, and the ranged DPS and healers in group #2. Usually most ground based AoE dmg happens in an area either at and around the boss or off in the distance somewhere:

    1) If it's at and around the boss's hit box, PoH/CoH group #1
    2) If it happens at a distance somewhere but two or less people are only hit, use direct heals (if you're one of them, hit the other person with Binding Heal)
    3) If it happens at a distance somewhere and three or more people in group 2 are hit by it, then you can PoH that group.

    Keep in mind that if you set up groups where ranged DPS and healers are together, a healer's reflex is to heal themselves first, so even if 3 people got hit and all three of you are healers, you're better of ignoring the other two (unless they're dangerously low of course) and Binding Heal someone in group 1.. especially a tank b/c you can refresh Renew with Serenity chakra.

    Keep in mind that Binding Heal in general is all sorts of awesome b/c aside from the HPS and HPM wonder, it also gives you a stack of Serendipity which saves you mana on your next PoH or Gheals. Synergy =)

    ---------- Post added 2011-12-07 at 03:55 PM ----------



    You can also center the spell off of mob targets, including bosses.
    Reread his question, because you are 100% wrong. He asked about CoH and PoM, both of those spells heal party OR raid. PoH only heals the party the player is in.

    And to answer the OPs question, yes you can cast CoH on yourself, and it will hit the players who need healing (so long they are within 15 yards of you). It also doesn't matter if the target your hit is at full health, as it will always heal damaged players within range first, skipping the full health target who you casted it on. The best way to use this spell, is with raidframes that have a cluster finder ability (like vuhdo). They can be configured to show you how many people are in range of the person you want to cast it on.

    If you don't want to use addons, the next best thing is to hit the tank with CoH for melee damage, and yourself or other healers for ranged damage, as healers always tend to stand in the middle of the raid, giving you the best chance for it to hit 5 players who need healing. Casting it on a random ranged player risks the chance that it won't hit 5 people if the raid is spread out.


    The lazy way to use PoM is to cast it on CD only on the tank. Don't get me wrong, this it's still a very effective way to use this spell, however only casting it on the tank is kind of like a binding your trinkets and CDs to your most cast spell, yea you benefiting from using them on CD, but it's not always ideal. Sometimes it's better to pre-cast it on a DPS if there is going to be heavy ticking raid damage, as tanks generally don't take a lot of damage if the raid is taking heavy damage. It's also OK to cast it on a melee dps if you know they are going to take damage. One thing to remember, if you raid with two priests, your PoM can override his, and vice versa. In this situation, it's best to assign PoM targets.

    ---------- Post added 2011-12-07 at 08:25 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by BeerWolf View Post
    You're using a Rotation for healing...? o.O
    Umm... every healing class has at least 3 rotations; a fuck mana, the raid is dying rotation, a mana conservation rotation, and a moderate damage rotation.

    I have 5 standard rotations I use as disc:
    Tank healing: PW:S, penance, greater heal, greater heal wait for rapture to come off CD, then repeat.
    Oh shit, someone stood in fire: PW:S, penance, flash heal.
    Heavy ticking raid damage: PoM, a CD (PI,barrier,or AA) then PoH spam
    Heavy pulsing raid damage: pre-shield group 1 before the pulse, start casting PoH on group 2 right immediately before the pulse, so the heals land right after the damage hits. Next pulse, swap groups pre-shield group 2, PoH group 1.
    and finally, my mana conservation rotation: ....LOL just kidding,disc doesn't need one! Ok well disc does have one (we actually have two) Atonement spec is HF, penance, smite. SoS spec is PW:S, penance, heal. But seriously, disc doesn't really need a mana conservation rotation.

    I don't play holy much anymore, but I imagine their throughput rotation would look something like PoM, HW: Sanctuary, CoH, PoH, PoH, PoM, CoH ect.

  13. #13
    High Overlord Hadoouken's Avatar
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    Dear Azovax,

    your stats are really good so im sure thats not the problem, but id like to see an armory link to check your talent tree along with gear
    gems/enchs and above all ur reforging.

    You are a Holy priest and u r letting a druid and other healing classes own u tsk tsk tsk...i raid in 25 man guild semi hardcore on heavy raid damage i pull 47k HPS owning everyone on meters...but hey NEVER judge a priest on healing meters even if he/she were the lowest on meters...dont spam POH / Serenity / COH these r costly just spam when needed...as for your chakra state depends on the fight and ur role but u r holy so i suggest serenity and raid healing.

    Rotations there's no rotation really its all about decision making and predicting incoming damage, make sure you know the fight transitions it really helps a lot. a tarded rotation will be 2*FH > POH > COH...or sudden damage to 6+ members COH>POH...

    Hope this helped

  14. #14
    Never use the serenity chakra unless you're purely tank healing or healing those stupid adds on phase 2 deathwing...

    I'm always on raid duty with the other healer(s) half/half. I usually chuck a renew and the tank and bounce my PoMs off him.

    Just need PoM up every time it drops off (use power auras to make a counter), but really it's not terrible to just cast it on the tank often.

    Renew usage depends on whether it will overheal or not, I used it a lot in firelands, not so much in DS.

    I basically CoH on cooldown, it's a smart heal with a large radius so it's pretty efficient.

    If you're damaged, always use binding heal on someone. It's as efficient as heal and it procs serendipity.

    Flash is good for topping people up. If someone is damaged more than others I like to flash them then PoH the groups up.

    For raid stacks throw sanctuary down, it's good HPS and it's fire and forget. Then you want to CoH on CD and alternate PoHs on the groups and depending on the fight PoM as well.

  15. #15
    Disc it more effective for 10 mans then Holy. Just fact. Disc can Spam PoH in 10 man and pull huge numbers. Holy can not, due to that their mastery does not stack.

    Second, healing is like a Pie. There is only so much of it to heal, everything else is over healing. Your fellow healers by just be out healing you because you are not fast enough and sniping or such. If that is the case, drop to 2 healers.

    If you are having healing issue, then you either A) do not have enough spirit or B) have to much over healing.
    Last edited by Apostolic; 2011-12-09 at 12:36 AM.
    I don't heal STUPID, Stupid SHOULD HURT!
    Syntyche - Disc Priest

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Apostolic View Post
    Holy can not, due to that their mastery does not stack.
    lol?

    It does.

    Edit: Holy smokes batman a Disc priest using fiery quintessence. Disregard all opinions.

  17. #17
    I'm assuming is is you: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...C3%B6/advanced

    Would help if you were wearing all your healing gear but you may want to enchant what you have. Also you could try taking veiled shadows for earlier fiends.

    Also if your having mana issues try to use Inner Will more if your not. Other than that, I think you have all the advise you need!

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorfie View Post
    lol?

    It does.

    Edit: Holy smokes batman a Disc priest using fiery quintessence. Disregard all opinions.
    Jesus there is a whole lot of stupid going on in this thread. It's not a bad trinket, the on use int is godly when used with PI... While I don't like it, its not a terrible trinket..

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by scandore8472 View Post
    Jesus there is a whole lot of stupid going on in this thread. It's not a bad trinket, the on use int is godly when used with PI... While I don't like it, its not a terrible trinket..
    And not my main trinket for Disc either. JoD would be the other one. But nice to see the trolls creep up in every thread. As I said, I have both Disc and Holy, except the Troll obviously did not read the whole thread, or take a second to look at the off spec.
    I don't heal STUPID, Stupid SHOULD HURT!
    Syntyche - Disc Priest

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Apostolic View Post
    And not my main trinket for Disc either. JoD would be the other one. But nice to see the trolls creep up in every thread. As I said, I have both Disc and Holy, except the Troll obviously did not read the whole thread, or take a second to look at the off spec.
    Well you don't know how holy mastery works, it clearly says Disc Priest in your signature AND you didn't say you played holy. Get out troll.

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