1. #1381
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    So... where does this leave Dallas? Jet looks like he's gone. Deron Williams isn't coming, and by proxy, Dwight Howard is a write off. They could get Nash but Toronto and New York are after him as well. Dallas' plan to clear cap space might be back firing on them. Rebuilding time I guess?

  2. #1382
    Quote Originally Posted by jreg View Post
    So... where does this leave Dallas? Jet looks like he's gone. Deron Williams isn't coming, and by proxy, Dwight Howard is a write off. They could get Nash but Toronto and New York are after him as well. Dallas' plan to clear cap space might be back firing on them. Rebuilding time I guess?
    They are interested in Lin and Nash. Rumors are that they are going to try and save money to go for Dwight and CP3 in 2013.

  3. #1383
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    Quote Originally Posted by jreg View Post
    So... where does this leave Dallas? Jet looks like he's gone. Deron Williams isn't coming, and by proxy, Dwight Howard is a write off. They could get Nash but Toronto and New York are after him as well. Dallas' plan to clear cap space might be back firing on them. Rebuilding time I guess?
    They are either going to have to match Toronto's money offer or convince Nash they are close to another title (Hint: They aren't even remotely close). If not, sign Kidd for a year and then hold pat for 2013 free agency when you try and sign Paul and Howard.

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-03 at 10:31 PM ----------

    Eric Gordon received a four year max offer from the Suns. Hornets have three days to match which they probably will if they stick to their word. Gordon wants to play in Phoenix.
    Last edited by conscript; 2012-07-04 at 02:35 AM.

  4. #1384
    Quote Originally Posted by conscript View Post
    They are either going to have to match Toronto's money offer or convince Nash they are close to another title (Hint: They aren't even remotely close). If not, sign Kidd for a year and then hold pat for 2013 free agency when you try and sign Paul and Howard.

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-03 at 10:31 PM ----------

    Eric Gordon received a four year max offer from the Suns. Hornets have three days to match which they probably will if they stick to their word. Gordon wants to play in Phoenix.
    I don't think they have to match Toronto's offer necessarily, but I could see the Mavs making a 3yr $30M offer at Nash. Him and Dirk have been like best friends over the last decade.

    Jason Kidd already said he was going to sign wherever D.Williams signed. The only way that seems to happen would be for vet's min, which I guess he could take. I think Dallas was only going to offer him in the area of $3M anyways.

    So apparently I'm a really dumb one, as I didn't see this coming. Even though the Nets had very few contracts on their books, they spent the entire free agency WAY over the cap. They held onto all their Bird Rights, and their cap holds had them right around $78M. Instead going under the cap to sign big free agents, they used these cap holds to trade for big time contracts.

    Now, regardless of whether or not they pull off this Howard deal (which IMO, seems like the best deal the Magic can get - as long as someone else takes Hump), they will have done a phenomenal job putting a team together.

    BTW... they offered Reggie Evans $3M with their trade exception, and they're going to get Mirza Teletovic (a superstar forward in Europe) for their MLE, so even without Dwight (assuming they'd keep Lopez in that case) their front court is decent.

    They're also probably going to get J.Kidd for vet's min which is quite good for coming off the bench for 10ish minutes.

    The trade for Gerald Wallace also makes sense now as they would not have been able to sign him this offseason normally, so their 1st round pick was essentially to get Bird Rights for him just so they would be able to sign him this summer.

    I take back everything shitty I said the trades the Nets have made.

  5. #1385
    It certainly is interesting. I've been waiting for this crazy Russian owner I've heard so much about to do something. It'll be quite a coup if they land Howard as well. They still won't be as good as either the Heat or Celtics, but I think that makes them the solid three.

    Dallas is massively screwed. They thought Williams and Howard would fall into their laps this offseason and they'd be ready to go again next year. Cuban has to be royally pissed.

  6. #1386
    If the Mavs spend 10 mil on Steve Nash that will be one of the dumbest decisions Ive seen. Hes so old theres no point bringing him to eat up salary space for years to come when he is getting worse and worse and cant play any defense. Jeremy Lin is an equally bad defender but at least he has upside, he can get better he should be the real push and not Steve Nash. At the very least resign Delonte West, hes a bonehead off the court but he has a decent game on it for not too much money. You dont spend money just because you have it, you sign good deals or ones that will put you on top. Signing Steve Nash will hurt more than help unless the contract is reasonable to his age. Toronto just cares about revenue to market a canadian player so it can make sense for them, not for Dallas.

    Quote Originally Posted by Windry View Post
    Now, regardless of whether or not they pull off this Howard deal (which IMO, seems like the best deal the Magic can get - as long as someone else takes Hump), they will have done a phenomenal job putting a team together.

    They're also probably going to get J.Kidd for vet's min which is quite good for coming off the bench for 10ish minutes.
    Kidd isnt going to New Jersey they cant afford him, hes going to the Knicks or the Mavericks according to reports, he may just go wherever Jeremy Lin doesnt.

    I completely disagree I think the Nets screwed themselves from a team perspective if they trade for Dwight Howard. You would have 4 guys who can play and literally nobody else. No draft picks whatsoever as you have traded it all away and no bench. If the goal is to sell tickets than sure its a success, if the goal is to win theres no way. Think about it, with no money to sign anyone they wont ever get better past what theyd have already. With no draft picks theres no young talent to build with. And who is better Lebron, Wade, Bosh or Howard, Williams, Joe? Its frankly not even close. So theyre trying to go Miami's strategy minus the caliber of Miami's players, minus draft picks (Miami kept some of theirs) and minus any sort of depth whatsoever.

  7. #1387
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jibjabb View Post
    Kidd isnt going to New Jersey they cant afford him, hes going to the Knicks or the Mavericks according to reports, he may just go wherever Jeremy Lin doesnt.

    I completely disagree I think the Nets screwed themselves from a team perspective if they trade for Dwight Howard. You would have 4 guys who can play and literally nobody else. No draft picks whatsoever as you have traded it all away and no bench. If the goal is to sell tickets than sure its a success, if the goal is to win theres no way. Think about it, with no money to sign anyone they wont ever get better past what theyd have already. With no draft picks theres no young talent to build with. And who is better Lebron, Wade, Bosh or Howard, Williams, Joe? Its frankly not even close. So theyre trying to go Miami's strategy minus the caliber of Miami's players, minus draft picks (Miami kept some of theirs) and minus any sort of depth whatsoever.
    In my opinion, Kidd should go wherever Lin is. That is exactly who Lin reminds me of with a more unpolished game. Working with Kidd would make him damn good.

    And ya it isn't frankly close. The Nets big 3 would be better. For my money Deron is the best PG in the NBA or at least very close to Paul. Howard is unquestionably the best center. Johnson and Wallace are very good scorers. They are their strongest where the Heat are their weakest. Miami would have the better role player support shockingly lol. Outside of their superior starting four, the Nets would just be awful though and they wouldn't be able to improve at all.

    It would be an amazing match up to see. The Heat's small ball lineup against the Nets more traditional set up. Chalmers, Wade, Battier, LeBron, Bosh vs Williams, Evans, Johnson, Wallace, and Howard. Man that would be amazing to see. The Heat have the advantage at whatever spot LeBron is playing, but if Wade isn't 100% the Nets have an advantage basically everywhere else. The problem with both those teams is they need to run themselves ragged to win since as soon as they sit their starters everything would fall apart.

    If the Nets finish the Howard deal I think they are unquestionably the second best team in the East and it isn't even going to be close. The Celtics could show up but they have somehow found a way to get older in free agency. The Heat aren't going anywhere. I don't see how any other team in the East could possibly stack up against these two teams.
    Last edited by conscript; 2012-07-04 at 12:34 PM.

  8. #1388
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    Quote Originally Posted by conscript View Post
    If the Nets finish the Howard deal I think they are unquestionably the second best team in the East and it isn't even going to be close. The Celtics could show up but they have somehow found a way to get older in free agency. The Heat aren't going anywhere. I don't see how any other team in the East could possibly stack up against these two teams.
    If they retain Hibbert, Pacers. It's crazy how much disrespect they get. People seem to forget this is a team that finished fifth OVERALL, and had the best record against a stronger West Conference in the East. Celtics didn't really get older either - Jeff Green is coming back, Wilcox is coming back, they picked up Fab Melo and Sully, Jet is the only "old" addition and he's still good. Bulls did pretty good without Rose last season too. Why people make it sound like they'll be automatically at the bottom of the playoff totem pole is beyond me. To say Nets would be unquestionably the second best team in the East with Howard is erroneous at best, blind at worst.

  9. #1389
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    Quote Originally Posted by jreg View Post
    If they retain Hibbert, Pacers. It's crazy how much disrespect they get. People seem to forget this is a team that finished fifth OVERALL, and had the best record against a stronger West Conference in the East. Celtics didn't really get older either - Jeff Green is coming back, Wilcox is coming back, they picked up Fab Melo and Sully, Jet is the only "old" addition and he's still good. Bulls did pretty good without Rose last season too. Why people make it sound like they'll be automatically at the bottom of the playoff totem pole is beyond me. To say Nets would be unquestionably the second best team in the East with Howard is erroneous at best, blind at worst.
    The Pacers are going to be a good team, assuming they match Hibbert's deal. Even so I don't think they are going to be that close to the Heat, Celtics, and Nets. The Bulls did real well in the regular season without Rose. Big deal. They still have zero scoring options. They are potentially losing a few of the pieces that helped them get along without Rose. Even if they do make the playoffs in a decent position with getting Rose back before then, I just don't see how that team stacks up at all with the best teams.

    In a league where stars mean more to team success than anything, a team with three all star starters two of which are All-NBA caliber is going to be just fantastic. We just saw two similar teams make the Finals. The Nets team would have a more traditional inside outside set up and wouldn't have to rely on weird set ups like using LeBron as a Point Forward.

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-04 at 11:14 AM ----------

    Lol teams are just screwing with the Knicks now. Houston has offered Lin a poisoned 4 year $30 million contract expected to be structured just like the Asik offer where the last year or two are huge.

    Suns ans Knicks still working on a sign and trade for Nash although Knicks really don't want to send Shump.
    Last edited by conscript; 2012-07-04 at 03:16 PM.

  10. #1390
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    Dude conscript the Knicks are in such a bad position.

    Raptors offered restricted Laundry Fields some money, so now Knicks have to decide whether to match it or not. If we match it we keep him, but we lose Steve Nash because we can't afford him.

    RAHHHHHH. Dealing with two home teams is so troublesome.

  11. #1391
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blueobelisk View Post
    Dude conscript the Knicks are in such a bad position.

    Raptors offered restricted Laundry Fields some money, so now Knicks have to decide whether to match it or not. If we match it we keep him, but we lose Steve Nash because we can't afford him.

    RAHHHHHH. Dealing with two home teams is so troublesome.
    They can still get Nash, they'll just have to give up their rapidly improving SG Shumpert who I think is going to be a pretty good player.

  12. #1392
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    PFFFT Shumpert. Yeah he was good but I remember when he tore his ACL. Same day as Derek Rose as memory serves me correctly.

    All over the news:" Oh my God what a sad day in basketball history, Derek Rose tore his ACL. WHYYYYY WHYYYYYYYYYYY

    Oh and that Shumpert guy tore his ACL too, but back to Derek Rose. WHYYYYYYYY."

    Not that it devalues Shumperts play but....as a Knicks fan it was pretty lol...

  13. #1393
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    Quote Originally Posted by conscript View Post
    The Pacers are going to be a good team, assuming they match Hibbert's deal. Even so I don't think they are going to be that close to the Heat, Celtics, and Nets. The Bulls did real well in the regular season without Rose. Big deal. They still have zero scoring options. They are potentially losing a few of the pieces that helped them get along without Rose. Even if they do make the playoffs in a decent position with getting Rose back before then, I just don't see how that team stacks up at all with the best teams.

    In a league where stars mean more to team success than anything, a team with three all star starters two of which are All-NBA caliber is going to be just fantastic. We just saw two similar teams make the Finals. The Nets team would have a more traditional inside outside set up and wouldn't have to rely on weird set ups like using LeBron as a Point Forward.[COLOR="red"]
    This assumption is what bothers me. Though this is a league where teams like the Heat and OKC rule, this is also the same league where super star experiments like the 04 Lakers, 10-12 Knicks, 05-08 Suns, and 07-08 Nuggets failed. On paper, they look pretty good, but let's see how it hashes out first before making bold proclamations while treating established teams like shit, yeah?

  14. #1394
    The Pacers overachieved last year. Let's be real about this. They played about as well as they could play and still lost to the Heat. They didn't really get better in free agency or the draft. They'll be fifth again this year and might win a playoff series depending on the matchup. Last year that team was as good as it will ever be without adding some scoring. People are leaving the Bulls for dead because they're dead. Luol Deng might be gone, Rose will miss significant time, and they didn't add anything either.

    I disagree that the Celtics shouldn't be your preseason number 2 in the East, even if the Nets land Howard. Bradley is coming back, Sullinger and Melo give them a lot of youth, Melo gets to learn from Garnett, and the only player they might lose is Ray Allen. I also disagree that a core of D-Will, Howard, Wallace and Johnson makes you an instant contender. That's the three seed in a weak East clearly, but let's see how they play in the post season. I don't know if this team can play defense outside of Howard, though it should be a solid rebounding squad. If a team like Boston can single cover Howard (which is exactly how they beat Orlando in the past), what does this team's offense look like?

    Conscript: I still give Miami the hypothetical edge because of their team defense. Howard hasn't ever really played well against this Heat configuration. He really has also shown no ability to win consistently in the playoffs. Maybe D-Will, Johnson, and Wallace have been on so many mediocre to terrible teams that I just don't give them the credit they deserve. Maybe I just forgot why people regarded Williams as a top 2 point guard in the league a few years ago because he was in the NBA witness protection program in New Jersey. This Nets lineup doesn't scare me at all.

  15. #1395
    rumors showing Nash going to the Lakers now.. wth is going on?

    all i know is Raptors GM is getting fired if this is true

  16. #1396
    That's what I'm seeing too. Nash going to Lakers (3yrs $27M). Lakers using their trade exception they got for Lamar last year. Pheonix doing a sign-trade for 1st round picks in 2013 and 2015... then 2nd round picks in '14 and '15. I would like to think that the 3rd year is non-guaranteed... or a team option, but I guess we'll see.

    Now I LOOOOOVE Steve Nash. He's one of my favorite players (especially after he made that Stepbrothers video in Santa Monica)... but I really don't see how he fits on this team at all UNLESS they were going to trade Bynum for Howard AND move Gasol.

    Last edited by Windry; 2012-07-05 at 02:09 AM.

  17. #1397
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windry View Post
    Now I LOOOOOVE Steve Nash. He's one of my favorite players (especially after he made that Stepbrothers video in Santa Monica)... but I really don't see how he fits on this team at all UNLESS they were going to trade Bynum for Howard AND move Gasol.
    They totally should move Bynum for Howard and Gasol for a solid wing. Nash isn't the cleanest fit, but he is definitely an upgrade. Can't wait to see if Kobe can play without the ball in his hands for the majority of each game. He isn't a catch and shoot guy so we will see. I wouldn't put it past him to massively improve in that area at all though.

    Poor Raptors. Try to poison Nash to the Knicks with that awful Landry deal and now the Lakers swoop in and snag Nash. Brutal.

  18. #1398
    Btw... people who are worried about the Knicks or Mavs, don't be.
    This is actually a summer with a lot of serviceable point guards out there.

    D-Williams/Nash/The Jet/Andre Miller/George Hill/Goran Dragic/Mo Williams are gone,
    but there's still: Chauncey Billups, Jeremy Lin, Jameer Nelson, Raymond Felton, Aaron Brooks, Kirk Heinrich/D.Fish/Ramon Sessions/Delonte West.
    As the Lakers have proved over the last decade, a superstar PG isn't required to win championships. Your team can get by with a serviceable PG.

  19. #1399
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windry View Post
    Btw... people who are worried about the Knicks or Mavs, don't be.
    This is actually a summer with a lot of serviceable point guards out there.

    D-Williams/Nash/The Jet/Andre Miller/George Hill/Goran Dragic/Mo Williams are gone,
    but there's still: Chauncey Billups, Jeremy Lin, Jameer Nelson, Raymond Felton, Aaron Brooks, Kirk Heinrich/D.Fish/Ramon Sessions/Delonte West.
    As the Lakers have proved over the last decade, a superstar PG isn't required to win championships. Your team can get by with a serviceable PG.
    Ya you're team can get by without one if you run the triangle which no one does or you have LeBron James lol. Still plenty of decent enough guys though and honestly I think the Mavs are perfectly content with chilling for a year and going after Paul and potentially Howard.

    Beasley agreed to terms with the Suns. That team is going to be garbage. But hey they picked up those sweet picks from the Lakers that are going to be in the mid to late 20s!

  20. #1400
    Quote Originally Posted by conscript View Post
    They totally should move Bynum for Howard and Gasol for a solid wing. Nash isn't the cleanest fit, but he is definitely an upgrade. Can't wait to see if Kobe can play without the ball in his hands for the majority of each game. He isn't a catch and shoot guy so we will see. I wouldn't put it past him to massively improve in that area at all though.

    Poor Raptors. Try to poison Nash to the Knicks with that awful Landry deal and now the Lakers swoop in and snag Nash. Brutal.
    You know, when MJ got older, he stayed pretty effective by becoming a post player. Kobe's trainer has stated that they had that goal for Kobe, but he just didn't have the same bulk that the older Michael had.

    Over the last 2 years though, Kobe's definitely become quite good in the post... we just don't see it very often. Of course, that's cause the Lakers essentially ran 2 centers, but if they did move Bynum or Gasol and ran a more traditional line-up, the Lakers could go with some set plays where Kobe takes their SG to the post.

    Alternatively, Kobe and Sessions tried quite a few times last season to play pick and roll, but it just didn't work out that well. I think Mike Brown is going to try that system again with Nash and Kobe.

    I think Dwight would be a much better match in LA with Nash dominating the ball handling, and I think the Lakers probably made this trade to convince Dwight to want to play in LA.

    Before signing Nash, I wanted to keep Bynum, and not get Dwight (as it felt like a 1yr loan for the future of the franchise), but at this point, I think Lakers trading for Dwight would be the right move.

    Then, I think the Lakers should resign Jordan Hill/Matt Barnes, and still try to trade Gasol, but for 2-3 decent bench players.

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-04 at 07:38 PM ----------

    If I were the Mavs, I would be all over Chauncey Billups right now. Veteran leadership, smart and solid defender, will not be required to carry the bulk of the scoring. It sounds like a very good fit there.

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