1. #1421
    Fluffy Kitten conscript's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Jonesville, Michigan
    Posts
    10,443
    Quote Originally Posted by Jibjabb View Post
    A Lineup of Westbrook, Sefolosha, Durant, Nowitzki, Ibaka... fucking scary.
    That would be incredible, but completely impossible. There is no trade exception you can fit a $20 million contract into. Even with a sign and trade, Harden is only making $5 million this year (unless you mean next season in which Dirk is making $22 million). They would have to trade away about their entire roster aside from Westbrook and Durant to make the salaries work. Assuming Sham Sports trade exception list is up to date, OKC only has a $1.2 million exception they can use so there is just about no way that could ever work.

    Not to say they shouldn't at least consider trading Dirk if he wants. They are taking a huge gamble again next offseason hoping that Paul doesn't stick in LA and Howard doesn't sign long term anywhere. If either of them do their options to give Dirk any shot at another title in Dallas looks incredibly bleak.

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-06 at 09:52 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Blueobelisk View Post
    My ESPN App just told me Linn signed agreement with Rockets, so the Knicks can still get him but he's expensive and they'll have to match that offer.
    Ya Knicks will match it. In the last year of that deal they have something like $65 million committed to four guys lol. I'm sure the money they make from Lin's marketability alone will totally make up for the huge tax they'll face that year.

  2. #1422
    Mechagnome
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    729
    Quote Originally Posted by Jibjabb View Post
    That sounds like a guy who is leaning toward asking for a trade since they arent getting anybody solid. He could be a major shakeup in power what if he went to dare I say... Oklahoma City. Sign and trade Harden along with some other players to Dallas and add a bucketload of 1st round picks (assuming they still have a bunch Im not sure). Its outside the box thinking, but not out of the realm of possibility.

    A Lineup of Westbrook, Sefolosha, Durant, Nowitzki, Ibaka... fucking scary.
    It might not be out of the realm of possibility, but how about the realm of reality? Not even close unless OKC has the sudden urge to dismantle their team to form a big three + scrubs.

  3. #1423
    Fluffy Kitten conscript's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Jonesville, Michigan
    Posts
    10,443
    Sixers sign Nick Young for a year. They've also decided to amnesty Elton Brand on July 11th.

  4. #1424
    Quote Originally Posted by conscript View Post
    Sixers sign Nick Young for a year. They've also decided to amnesty Elton Brand on July 11th.
    Yup... as predicted, it's time for Miami to pick up their center.

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-06 at 10:48 AM ----------

    Also, Brandon Roy signs 2yrs $10.4M with Timberwolves

  5. #1425
    Bloodsail Admiral mirodin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Khazad Doom
    Posts
    1,045
    If Nowitzki does want to leave the best fit for him would be the Sixers, Pacers or maybe even the Nuggets. All of them need a superstar like Dirk to get them to the next level, and the real title contenders now don't need Dirk or can't offer anything for him that wouldn't cripple their team.
    It's coming in 1.2!!!

  6. #1426
    Quote Originally Posted by conscript View Post
    That would be incredible, but completely impossible. There is no trade exception you can fit a $20 million contract into. Even with a sign and trade, Harden is only making $5 million this year (unless you mean next season in which Dirk is making $22 million). They would have to trade away about their entire roster aside from Westbrook and Durant to make the salaries work. Assuming Sham Sports trade exception list is up to date, OKC only has a $1.2 million exception they can use so there is just about no way that could ever work.

    Not to say they shouldn't at least consider trading Dirk if he wants. They are taking a huge gamble again next offseason hoping that Paul doesn't stick in LA and Howard doesn't sign long term anywhere. If either of them do their options to give Dirk any shot at another title in Dallas looks incredibly bleak.
    It wouldnt be impossible. Sign and trade Harden to a long term like 11-12 million a year deal or even a front loaded one, throw in Perkins, and a bunch of 1st round draft picks to Dallas for Nowitzki. That would be matching up in salaries (Harden 11-12 mil + Perkins 7.8 mil roughly equals Dirk's 20.9 mil) and give both teams what they want. It doesnt gut OKC as they still have some depth and key role players (Collison, Maynor, Cook) and a incredibly scary starting five, while Dallas gets a nice young player to work with (Harden) a serviceable big man and lots of picks to use for the future.

    If he was traded to the Nuggets or Pacers it would more be because he still wants to be the unquestionable leader/best player. He has a full no trade clause so its really all up to him on what he wants to happen. Practically all contending teams would be happy to trade for him

    Edit: Apparently the Mavs are trying to sign Brand which would probably halt any possibility of trading away Nowitzki if it happens
    Last edited by Jibjabb; 2012-07-06 at 07:27 PM.

  7. #1427
    Fluffy Kitten conscript's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Jonesville, Michigan
    Posts
    10,443
    Quote Originally Posted by Jibjabb View Post
    It wouldnt be impossible. Sign and trade Harden to a long term like 11-12 million a year deal or even a front loaded one, throw in Perkins, and a bunch of 1st round draft picks to Dallas for Nowitzki. That would be matching up in salaries (Harden 11-12 mil + Perkins 7.8 mil roughly equals Dirk's 20.9 mil) and give both teams what they want. It doesnt gut OKC as they still have some depth and key role players (Collison, Maynor, Cook) and a incredibly scary starting five, while Dallas gets a nice young player to work with (Harden) a serviceable big man and lots of picks to use for the future.
    That Harden deal wouldn't kick in to next season though wouldn't it? As far as I know the new contract can't wipe out the old one. If it could that would be something to explore but I doubt either team would jump at that. I don't even think Dirk is that complimentary to the Thunder. They already have an amazing jump shooter in Durant who can do every single thing Dirk can do and more.

    As for Brand, there are going to be a ton of teams after him. Can't wait until that amnesty auction which is going to be way more entertaining than the Billups one was. The Heat are probably going to be big players for him too. Well, by big I mean they are probably going to put up whatever money they can afford to. I'd like the Pistons to make a play for him too since they have zero interior depth. I should probably look this up, but if you can trade players you get in an amnesty auction in the same season, he is a ridiculously attractive piece with his contract expiring. Assuming this page I am looking at is accurate, you can trade a player you get in an amnesty auction thirty days later. Who wouldn't want Brand in that case lol? If Howard doesn't get dealt or Paul indicates he is leaving LAC, hello gigantic expiring contract to include in the deal.
    Last edited by conscript; 2012-07-06 at 08:00 PM.

  8. #1428
    Quote Originally Posted by conscript View Post
    As for Brand, there are going to be a ton of teams after him. Can't wait until that amnesty auction which is going to be way more entertaining than the Billups one was. The Heat are probably going to be big players for him too. Well, by big I mean they are probably going to put up whatever money they can afford to. I'd like the Pistons to make a play for him too since they have zero interior depth. I should probably look this up, but if you can trade players you get in an amnesty auction in the same season, he is a ridiculously attractive piece with his contract expiring. Assuming this page I am looking at is accurate, you can trade a player you get in an amnesty auction thirty days later. Who wouldn't want Brand in that case lol? If Howard doesn't get dealt or Paul indicates he is leaving LAC, hello gigantic expiring contract to include in the deal.
    I believe the way it works is like this:
    - First off he'll go to the waiver wire and teams can claim his contract forcing Brand to play for them (this isn't going to happen)
    - Once he clears the waiver wire, teams can offer him whatever they want and Brand will be an UFA. Brand will be making the price of the new contract + the $16M that Philly will have to pay him for next year.
    - This $16M does not count on the salary cap/luxury tax for Philly (which is the main part where amnesty and regular waiver differs)

    Miami can offer him vet min or MLE of $3
    - thus he'd be making $17-$19M next season
    - $16M would be paid by Philly and $2-$3M paid by Miami
    - Brand would count as a contract on Miami's books @ $2-$3M
    - If they trade him, they do so at the worth of $2-$3, NOT at a $17-$19M contract

    Dallas of course should come in and offer him $5-$7 per year, and maybe for like 3yrs or so.
    Yes EVERYONE right now should be going after Brand because he's a $7-$10M player that your team can get for $2-$3M.

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-06 at 02:09 PM ----------

    Oh also to note... Brand no longer has Bird Rights with any team, so if you were thinking of acquiring Brand and then using him in a sign and trade next summer... it doesn't work that way.

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-06 at 02:21 PM ----------

    About trading Dirk...

    Since he has a player controlled "no trade" clause in his contract, he would have to agree to any trade.

    Even if OKC made Harden a max $ extension, it wouldn't kick in till next year, so Dirk to OKC is at least not going to happen this year.

    I don't see why Dirk would leave for anything other than a contender, and none of the contenders have the pieces to trade for Dirk... unless they came after 1 of the Laker bigs? Though the thought of Nash, Dirk, Kobe would be really interesting, but I am skeptical that that deal would happen. Cuban has always seen the Lakers as a huge rival, and probably wouldn't be wiling to trade his franchise player to them.

    What I do think is going happen is that Dirk will just play out his career in Dallas. I don't think that Dirk is going to ask to be traded, and Cuban certainly isn't going to bring up the subject if Dirk doesn't. Just as Paul Pierce maned the ship for Boston all those years they were terrible, so too, will Dirk for Dallas.
    Last edited by Windry; 2012-07-06 at 09:05 PM.

  9. #1429
    Fluffy Kitten conscript's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Jonesville, Michigan
    Posts
    10,443
    Quote Originally Posted by Windry View Post
    I believe the way it works is like this:
    - First off he'll go to the waiver wire and teams can claim his contract forcing Brand to play for them (this isn't going to happen)
    Why on Earth wouldn't that happen? That is BY FAR the best scenario for any team involved. A team will pick up a portion of Brand's salary and gain an enormous expiring contract they can play with at the trade deadline. If they want to keep him they can resign him if he wants to stay there. There is no reason at all that every team in the NBA should pass on this guy in the amnesty auction and it simply isn't going to happen. Even at the minimum some team out there is going to bid some small amount since that is all a team is responsible for paying this guy for a season. Why do you think he is going to get through the amnesty process without someone claiming him?

    Technically the only teams able to bid are ones under the cap at the time he is amnestyed. So Miami isn't able to bid for him, I was wrong in my hope for that, unless he clears. Still according to everything I have read, there is expected to be "significant interest" in Brand on the amnesty wire. Cavs, Hornets, Rockets, Mavs, Blazers, Cats, Pistons among others all under cap, all need interior help.
    Last edited by conscript; 2012-07-06 at 09:31 PM.

  10. #1430
    I wasn't talking about the whole amnesty process. I was talking about the waiver wire. No one's going to claim him off the waiver wire because then their team pays all of the $16M. The only teams that could even try to claim him would have to be $16M under the cap.

    He's going to clear waiver wire, guaranteed. At that point Philly is paying his $16M and EVERYONE will be throwing vet min or MLE at him, and he'll be able to choose where he wants to go *cough Miami, *cough.

  11. #1431
    Moderator Pendulous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Treno
    Posts
    13,068
    And Ray Allen picks the Heat. Gonna be a crazy good team next year.

    General Off-topic/Fun Stuff/Diablo 3/Sports & Fitness mod(rules)------KUPO --------Sig by Elyssia------- Say hello to a world of marigolds

  12. #1432
    The Patient
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    212
    My picks for 2013 standings..
    East:
    1-Miami(R.Allen, R.Lewis)
    2-Boston(J.Terry)
    3-Brooklyn(Joe Johnson)
    4-Indiana
    5-Chicago(Going to be missing D.Rose and L.Deng for a long time.)
    6-New York(R.Felton, J.Kidd, M.Camby)
    7-Atlanta(Devin Harris, Lou Williams, K.Korver)
    8-Philadelphia(N.Young, D.Wright)
    9-Orlando(Even if Dwight stays the rest of the team is bad)
    10-Milwaukee
    11-Cleveland
    12-Washington(Nene, T.Ariza)
    13-Toronto(K.Lowry)
    14-Detroit(C.Maggette)
    15-Charlotte(B.Gordon)

    West:
    1-Oklahoma
    2-LA Lakers(S.Nash)
    3-LA Clippers(L.Odom, Jamaal Crawford, G.Hill)
    4-Memphis (J.Bayless)
    5-San Antonio
    6-Denver
    7-Dallas(O.J. Mayo, E.Brand, C.Kaman)
    8-Utah(Mo williams, Marvin Williams)
    9-Minnesota(B.Roy, C.Budinger)
    10-Golden State
    11-Portland
    12-Phoenix(G.Dragic, M.Beasley)
    13-New Orleans
    14-Sacramento(A.Brooks)
    15-Houston
    Last edited by fixit; 2012-07-21 at 11:24 PM.

  13. #1433
    Fluffy Kitten conscript's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Jonesville, Michigan
    Posts
    10,443
    Quote Originally Posted by Pendulous View Post
    And Ray Allen picks the Heat. Gonna be a crazy good team next year.
    If they manage to still add Camby in a sign and trade with Houston, just yikes. They just added arguably the greatest catch and shoot player in NBA history. Adding a legit interior player besides Bosh would be huge. I hope LA or Brooklyn gets a Howard deal done just to see that bloodbath of a matchup in the playoffs.

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-07 at 08:12 AM ----------

    @fixit: I agree with your general order outside of a couple things. Detroit will be higher than 14th. They got better this offseason and were already ahead of a couple teams like Toronto, Washington and Cleveland. Minnesota is going to be a playoff team this year over Dallas or Utah. They looked great last year when Rubio was healthy and starting. With the addition of Roy and Budinger (who is a big upgrade over the production they got from that spot last year even if he is mediocre and didn't in any way command the 18th pick in that awful trade) they are going to be good. As for Phoenix, they aren't getting Gordon as the Hornets are matching that deal. That team is going to be pure awful.

  14. #1434
    Can I hear some opinions on Ray Allen going to Heat? He's going for less moneys (I think half) than Boston is offering.

    There's a lot of...Talk...about that move because of a rivalry between Celtics and Heat, not to mention Allen being such a prominent Celtic.

    I mean, there were some bad calls from the refs and I think celtics should have beaten Heat this year (not in game 7 where Lebron went crazy), and celtics were very close to winning. But Ray said nope, sorry losers. Gotta get me that ring. I think Celtics could win next season but Ray Allen is riding on Heat....

    Thoughts hmm?

  15. #1435
    Fluffy Kitten conscript's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Jonesville, Michigan
    Posts
    10,443
    Quote Originally Posted by Blueobelisk View Post
    Can I hear some opinions on Ray Allen going to Heat? He's going for less moneys (I think half) than Boston is offering.

    There's a lot of...Talk...about that move because of a rivalry between Celtics and Heat, not to mention Allen being such a prominent Celtic.

    I mean, there were some bad calls from the refs and I think celtics should have beaten Heat this year (not in game 7 where Lebron went crazy), and celtics were very close to winning. But Ray said nope, sorry losers. Gotta get me that ring. I think Celtics could win next season but Ray Allen is riding on Heat....

    Thoughts hmm?
    The Celtics have tried to trade Ray Allen at the trade deadline for two straight seasons. They didn't offer him an extension until suddenly he was getting interest from around the league. He doesn't owe them anything at all as far as staying with the team. If he wants to pursue another ring with a team that actually has a chance to win, good for him. He has made a ton of money in his career so I'm sure the chance to win outweighs that motivator by a ton. The Celtics didn't draft him. The Celtics didn't make him a star player. They acquired him in a trade and he won a Championship with them. Then he was dangled in trades for over a year and was benched as the sixth man.

    Personally, I don't think the Celtics can win next year or again with that roster with or without Ray. They are just way too old. In the draft they picked up a guy who can score inside but has zero athleticism and a big who can't rebound. That roster just doesn't stack up to the Heat, Thunder, etc. They managed to take Miami to the brink and that took a vintage effort from Garnett and the Heat being without their one legitimate big man until game 5. With a full line up on the floor it isn't close between them. Hell the only reason the Celtics were even in that position is the injury to Rose or they end up getting handled by the Bulls easily. They could barely a terrible Philly team.

    Moral of the story is Ray can do what he wants. He opted to go for a title not the money. Boston should have already started their rebuild rather than extend their aged team for a couple more years of Rondo's prime.

  16. #1436
    Marcus Camby is supposedly leaning towards the Knicks, I heard someone say there's no way he takes the vet minimum regardless of the situation. Heat are also supposedly looking at Rashard Lewis, though I can't imagine why they'd want him.

  17. #1437
    Mechagnome
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    729
    Quote Originally Posted by buck008 View Post
    Marcus Camby is supposedly leaning towards the Knicks, I heard someone say there's no way he takes the vet minimum regardless of the situation. Heat are also supposedly looking at Rashard Lewis, though I can't imagine why they'd want him.
    Lewis is a perfect big man for the Heat small ball scheme - relatively athletic, can hit jumpers, and can defend well enough. That said, this is predicated on him being healthy and not completely over the hill. His poor showing last season was more on the franchise's direction (Wizards imploded due to selfish play by the players) and his injuries. The year before that, he wasn't a bad player... just massively overpaid. If nothing else, he could be a decent backup for Bosh.

    Also, if Camby were to come to the Heat, he'd have to come via sign and trade since he refuses to take vet min. He's looking for 3 million at least (matching the mini mid-level exception) and that'll only happen if the Heat trade away players + picks. If we have to give up Cole and/or our protected first round pick acquired from Philly, I'd pass on this. And Anthony won't be a viable guy to give up since Houston would want expiring contracts.

    Knicks would also have to sign and trade but they apparently have players Houston wants (more accurately, players Houston might be able to use).

    Quote Originally Posted by Windry View Post
    I wasn't talking about the whole amnesty process. I was talking about the waiver wire. No one's going to claim him off the waiver wire because then their team pays all of the $16M. The only teams that could even try to claim him would have to be $16M under the cap.

    He's going to clear waiver wire, guaranteed. At that point Philly is paying his $16M and EVERYONE will be throwing vet min or MLE at him, and he'll be able to choose where he wants to go *cough Miami, *cough.
    Brand's salary this year will be 18.1 million. No team wants to pick this guy up from waivers. He'd kill all of a team's salary space for like everyone except 5 teams.
    Last edited by jreg; 2012-07-08 at 05:28 AM.

  18. #1438
    Lewis is Shane Battier except a worse defender and has had a shitty attitude his whole career. If they pursue a big it should be a guy that can handle the Howards and Gernetts of the league, not another wing player.

    If Brand clears waivers he might take the vet minimum with Miami to be a part of a team with a real shot at a ring. He's never really had that in his whole career. I'm so fuzzy on how that whole amnesty process works I won't even begin to predict where he'll actually end up. I know I'd like to see him in Miami.

  19. #1439
    Quote Originally Posted by jreg View Post
    Brand's salary this year will be 18.1 million. No team wants to pick this guy up from waivers. He'd kill all of a team's salary space for like everyone except 5 teams.
    Right... no one's going to pick him off waivers. That means he's going to "clear waivers." At that point Philly is paying his salary, and anyone can get him for cheap.

    I'm not sure if my post was confusing because it's very obvious he's going to clear waivers, and it's very obvious that everyone will chase him once he does clear, yet two people on this forum so far seem to not understand what I'm saying?

    I don't understand why people would want Marcus Camby for Miami, when they could clearly go after Elton Brand for Veteran's Min. Rashard Lewis is in the same boat. The Hornets are paying his $20M+ salary. People should understand, getting someone good for such a cheap salary is one of the most beneficial things about building a team. Older superstars can be some of the best bench/role players, and getting them for cheap should be one of the most exciting things for a team.

    The rumors around Ray Allen:
    - He did not get along with Rondo. It's been rumored that Rondo rubbed everyone of the Big 3 in the wrong way, but when he started becoming a superstar, Pierce and Garnet started to side more with Rondo, while Allen, till the end, still never got along with him.
    - As conscript said, he's been shopped around in trade talks each of the last two years, nor did they offer him an extension till free agency (because they wouldn't want to have him back if Garnet wasn't going to resign)
    - Ray Allen feels he should still be a starter (which I think so too), but was benched by Doc Rivers when he returned from injury, and after their time together, Allen felt like he was being disrespected.
    - EVEN THEN, Allen was probably willing to go back to Boston on the condition that they'd give him a "no trade clause."
    - It seems Boston didn't want to give it to him, so he went and signed with the Heat.

    Now, the Celtics and Knicks are the only 2 East teams that I care for at all, and I still greatly despise the Heat... but I'm glad he went to Miami. Boston doesn't deserve a guy like Ray Allen after the way they treated him.

    MY OPINIONS: While I too, think Boston should have started their rebuilding... the Celtics did too well in the playoffs (KG specifically), and it's probably just too hard to justify not bringing him back at a pay cut for $13M, and once KG is back, might as well try to keep the Big 3 together. The other problem with rebuilding is... Rondo is probably not on board for that. I speculate that the reason the Celtics tried to trade Rondo at the trade deadline was because Rondo told management that he would ask to be traded to a contender if they were going to go into rebuilding. Now it seems the team's stuck at an awkward middle ground.

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-08 at 01:29 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by buck008 View Post
    Lewis is Shane Battier except a worse defender and has had a shitty attitude his whole career. If they pursue a big it should be a guy that can handle the Howards and Gernetts of the league, not another wing player.

    If Brand clears waivers he might take the vet minimum with Miami to be a part of a team with a real shot at a ring. He's never really had that in his whole career. I'm so fuzzy on how that whole amnesty process works I won't even begin to predict where he'll actually end up. I know I'd like to see him in Miami.
    No! Lewis is a SF/PF and MUCH better shooter. When he and Ray Allen were on the Sonics, they were probably the best pairs of pure shooter ever. Lewis is a spread the floor/3 point shooting specialist that is decent at defending.

    Battier defends guards and some SF. He is a defensive specialist that is decent at shooting.

    Miami fans that gave Battier grief are retarded. Both of them are really good contracts to have.

    ELTON BRAND WILL CLEAR WAIVERS, I'd bet my life on it. Once he clears waivers it'll look like this...
    - Dallas will offer him $5-$10M for 3 years probably.
    - A whole bunch of teams will offer him $3M
    - Miami, LA... all the rich contenders will offer him $1.2M
    - He still gets $18.1 from Philly regardless of where he goes.

    So to him, he can:
    - Go to Dallas and make $23-$28M for 1 year, and then get paid $5-$10M for the next 2 years.
    - Go to any of the middle of the road teams and make $21.1M for 1 year, and then choose again where you want to go afterwards for hopefully $3-$9M.
    - Go to any of the contenders, and make $19.3M for 1 year, and then choose again where you want to go afterwards for hopefully $3-$9M.

    Most people (like me) think he'll choose a contender for 1yr.

  20. #1440
    Mechagnome
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    729
    Quote Originally Posted by Windry View Post
    I'm not sure if my post was confusing because it's very obvious he's going to clear waivers, and it's very obvious that everyone will chase him once he does clear, yet two people on this forum so far seem to not understand what I'm saying?
    Second part was aimed at Conscript since he feels like it would help a team at trade deadline (not sure how he came to this conclusion). I realize now how confusing my intent was. My bad lol.

    I don't understand why people would want Marcus Camby for Miami, when they could clearly go after Elton Brand for Veteran's Min. Rashard Lewis is in the same boat. The Hornets are paying his $20M+ salary. People should understand, getting someone good for such a cheap salary is one of the most beneficial things about building a team. Older superstars can be some of the best bench/role players, and getting them for cheap should be one of the most exciting things for a team.
    I agree. Much rather Elton Brand than Camby. I also want Lewis - don't care if his attitude is shitty. The guy can produce and he can defend. Good enough. If he acts up, bench him. It's not like we're losing much with vet min.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •