1. #5001
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jibjabb View Post
    10.1% FG and 1.7 AST difference in favor of Lebron

    Meanwhile Durant has a 11.9% FT, 1.8% 3PT, 1.3 REB, 0.1 TO, 0.1 ST, 0.6 BLK, 2.9 PTS, and a 0.61% team win differential (2.5 games ahead)
    The only significant statistical difference is FT% and that has a much lower value than FG%. I also already mentioned the use of win shares/PER to better understand the impact of each stat which leads me to...

    I hate when people use irrelevant stats to make their case like PER and win shares but whatever Ill humor you.
    Don't be dumb. I already contextualized EXACTLY how those stats are used - PER is best player on best team and win shares is for most valuable player. Win Shares has a significant correlation to team success whereas PER has no correlation whatsoever but it is a good indication of offensive efficiency. Don't call them useless without understanding the proper contexts they must be used in.

    Lebron has a slightly higher offensive win share at 4.9 (2nd in the NBA) while Durant is 4.6 (3rd in the NBA). But wait whats this, defensive win shares, Durant is ranked 5th of all NBA players and Lebron... isnt listed. Now heres defensive rating of NBA players, Durant is 15th and Lebron... again isnt listed. Durant is also beating him in win shares/WS per 48 anyways.
    Which is why you use WS/48... they both play different minutes and different number of games. For the time being, Durant has a tiny lead.

    I just dont get how a guy can play as good as he does, with a worse team, in a better conference, goes out and gets a better record and mostly gets ignored by voters. I think its time people say hey guys this Durant dude is pretty sick, lets give him some credit for once.
    Worse team? Are you joking? By every metric, Durant is essentially doing as good (some better, some worse) as LeBron and yet his team has the better record in, as you say, the harder conference. Furthermore, Miami doesn't exactly get to choose their conference do they? Despite that, Miami is 8-1 against the West and 8-1 against 0.500+ teams so it's not like they are bloating their record playing shitty teams.

    Furthermore, I already said I believe they are both neck and neck with stipulations for KD winning which I think are more than reasonable and likely. It's not like I'm saying no, he shouldn't win it.

    And as a side note to how just ridiculous some of these stats are heres a few examples:
    Demarcus Cousins has a better PER than Paul George
    Jose Calderon has a better offensive rating than Lebron James and Kevin Durant
    Kyle Lowry has a higher win share than Lamarcus Aldridge
    Because you have no idea how to interpret or contextualize these stats. First off, PER is a measure of EFFICIENCY, hence the NAME. You make it sound like DeMarcus Cousins is a trash player when he's putting up essentially 23/11 on 50% shooting in only 31(!) minutes. That's a per36 of 26/13, or damn near Kevin Love's stat line. Paul George hasn't been as efficient and he has a better team which is naturally going to take away from his stat line.

    Jose Calderon has a better offensive rating because he is literally scoring/responsible for that many points per 100 possessions... I really don't understand why this is mind boggling to you. He plays a specialized role with less minutes. There's a reason why centers like Tyson Chandler can pull out retarded offensive rating numbers - because it's limited and when stretched across 100 possessions, that's how well their "offense" was for that duration. If they were to get the same number of touches, their ORTG likely plummets and besides that, I watched Calderon play for years in Toronto. He's a fantastic offensive player but in short efficient bursts.

  2. #5002
    Quote Originally Posted by jreg View Post
    Don't be dumb. I already contextualized EXACTLY how those stats are used - PER is best player on best team and win shares is for most valuable player. Win Shares has a significant correlation to team success whereas PER has no correlation whatsoever but it is a good indication of offensive efficiency. Don't call them useless without understanding the proper contexts they must be used in.
    Its already been proven that shooting more will raise your PER even if it means lower percentages. That counteracts any attempt at rating someones efficiency by suggesting firing at higher rates somehow makes you a more efficient player.

    Whether you or anyone else thinks its neck and neck is irrelevant, we as a NBA public whole have not given Kevin Durant the credit he deserves for being is good as he is and winning more games with a worse yes WORSE team than Miami

  3. #5003
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jibjabb View Post
    Its already been proven that shooting more will raise your PER even if it means lower percentages. That counteracts any attempt at rating someones efficiency by suggesting firing at higher rates somehow makes you a more efficient player.
    And despite that, all the known chuckers have less than steller average PER. Look it up. Melo, AI, Kobe's twilight years, Adrian Dantley, and so on. If you don't combine shot volume with good shooting percentages, your PER won't be anywhere near the likes of Kareem, MJ, Bird, LBJ, etc. The idea that shooting more will raise your PER considers a player that simply does not exist. I can't think of a single player who has produced a great PER shooting like crap and shooting a lot.

    Whether you or anyone else thinks its neck and neck is irrelevant, we as a NBA public whole have not given Kevin Durant the credit he deserves for being is good as he is and winning more games with a worse yes WORSE team than Miami
    Using boldface and larger font sizes doesn't validate or make true your statement anymore than if I were to italicize it.

  4. #5004
    GO VOTE FOR SPORTS STUFF IN THIS THREAD:

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...thread-inside)

    Well not that thread. But vote for best player/team/coach/highlight of 2013.

    -----

    OKC without Westbrook is worse than Heat, assuming James/Durant aren't considered.

    With Westbrook and James/Durant considered, I consider Miami the stronger team. But those role players for OKC are fucking deadly man, way more than Miami's.

    Too early for this though. I want All Star Break already.

  5. #5005
    Moderator Stommped's Avatar
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    Look at the Suns blowing out the Clippers in LA. Hornacek COTY easily if this keeps up.

    Also, arguing about the MVP this early into the season is kind of silly imo. James or KD could tear their ACL tomorrow and you guys just wasted all that time looking up stats.

  6. #5006
    Quote Originally Posted by Stommped View Post
    James or KD could tear their ACL tomorrow and you guys just wasted all that time looking up stats.


    But ya, I was gonna nominate Phoenix coach for coach of the year in our MMO-C thread.

    Portland OKC tomorrow. :O. I still sort of doubt Portland can beat contenders in a 7 game series.

    Speaking of which Spurs are apparently feeding on the lesser teams but losing to better teams. Not good.

    But Nets are playing them tomorrow. GL Nets.

    Oh but tomorrow is New Years.

  7. #5007
    My New Years Resolution is to not attempt suicide everytime something goes bad for the Knicks or the Nets (or any New York sports team). (It's a fucking miracle I survived this long.)

    It's also to complete these side projects. I have to file a patent or two, finish the articles in this website in my sig, and then start a company with my professor and maybe some friends to make cell phone apps.

    Anyway. I heard Kyrie went down with knee problem. If it's serious problem, wow just wow its not a good NBA season.

  8. #5008
    Bulls, Nets, and to some extent the Knicks, Pistons and Cavs have turned what was supposed to be an exciting regular season into a snoozer. This is probably the most disinterested I have been in a long time in regards to the regular season.

    And the disparity in records from East to West has to be at some kind of record. Memphis would currently be the 12th seed in the west (out of 15 teams) and theyd make the playoffs if they played in the other conference. I dont think this calls for some blow up the conferences rule or anything, but it doesnt really feel fair. Although now that I think about it having a free for all with no divisions or conferences would be kinda fun, teams would always be trying hard since playoff positioning would constantly be on the line

  9. #5009
    No games tonight. I was in the mood for watching one too lol...

  10. #5010
    Oh shit son. Nets are facing OKC. They're down by like 14 during halftime. I'm whatever filling out grad school applications.

    Check back. Omg Nets are up by 2 with 13 seconds left. Ibaka gets the ball from KD and ties game. 5 seconds left. Joe Johnson buzzer beater@@@@@@@ Nets beat OKC.

    And I was badmouthing Nets while watching Knicks @ SAS saying "lol at least Knicks might do okay" since Knicks were up 52-47 or something at halftime.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Knicks win too but Spurs came back lol.

  11. #5011
    Moderator Stommped's Avatar
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    https://twitter.com/ConorTripler/sta...282816/photo/1

    - - - Updated - - -

    Goodbye Lu! One of my favorite Bulls of all time

  12. #5012
    The Lightbringer SL1200's Avatar
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    Wow traded him for Bynum and a few picks. Csn says they're expected to waive him (Bynum). So it's a salary dump that will go a long way in helping them tank the rest of the season.
    Last edited by SL1200; 2014-01-07 at 06:34 AM.

  13. #5013
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    Unfortunately the Kings are so bad that we won't be seeing that pick for awhile, and it turns into an automatic 2nd round pick in 2018, which is what will probably happen. It is top 12 protected this year and then top 10 protected 2015-17. They don't really have any talent right now outside of Boogie (who doesn't really seem to care about winning) and Gay so our best hope is for them to get Parker/Wiggins and make a decent turn around into a 500 team.

    But the best thing about the trade aside from the money saved is it hopefully now crushes the spirit of anyone on the team who thought of making a push for the playoffs this year. Bring on the L's boys
    Last edited by Stommped; 2014-01-07 at 07:09 AM.

  14. #5014
    I saw that. I think that was a bad deal for Cavs. They unloaded Bynum but they already have a backcourt. Unless they make Deng play SG and move Dion Waiters like they want too.

    Last night I saw Nets play (only 3 games on, wtf) and they scraped by Atlanta. I'll say this: PP is so old it's sloppy, KG is so old he's tired and can't move well, Joe Johnson is good but not worth his contract. Nets offense is horrible. AK 47 is the man.

    Btw I was loling at how biased Nets commentators were. It felt to me like Nets were getting all the calls and the announcers still complained. They were right to complain but the way they dramatized it was lol.

    Actually one announcer said something about AK 47 being tough (he took a knee to the face and only worried if the ball was Nets) and he said something about some players needing stretchers and mentioned Lebron. I only realized after reading bleacherreport later that he meant Lebron is a flopper. Jajaja, they made a big deal out of it too.

    Nets are 3-0 in 2014. Knicks are doing well too I think. Climbing back to get bounced round 2, hell yeah bitches.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Btw I neglected this thread, I could have posted some shenanagin videos of JR Smith untying people's shoelaces during free throw rebound waiting or of Lebron/Wade or Blake dunks but ehhh I'm more invested in football, basketball is boring these days.

  15. #5015
    Quote Originally Posted by Blueobelisk View Post
    I saw that. I think that was a bad deal for Cavs. They unloaded Bynum but they already have a backcourt. Unless they make Deng play SG and move Dion Waiters like they want too.
    Huh?

    The Cavs had nothing resembling a starting caliber NBA SF, which Deng is. It was a glaring hole on the roster that had to be filled with Earl Clark (not a 3, but backup PF), Alonzo Gee (D-league caliber player) and CJ Miles (more of a SG and mediocre at best). They had to resort to playing a 3 guard lineup because the SF situation was so bad. The picks they gave up are pretty lousy. Waiters is the 6th man and has been excelling in that role, and contrary to reports, the FO isn't trying to move him. Waiters does not conflict with Deng at all.

  16. #5016
    Oh. I thought Deng was a SG, then I googled him and saw 6' 9" and...lol...

  17. #5017
    The Lightbringer SL1200's Avatar
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    Cav's fans seem awful excited about the trade. The picks the Bulls got are really shitty. I hate these protected picks they keep trading for.

  18. #5018
    What a stupid, stupid trade for Cleveland. They gave up some actual assets and got back half a year of Deng, which they can use to battle for a 6 seed in the East. The best case outcome of this trade is getting their heads handed to them in the second round of the playoffs. More likely, they won't even move up that high and will get swept out in the first round.

    The Bulls didn't really get much, but they didn't really give up something that mattered for them in a tangible way. The only question is if they could have found a higher bidder. Maybe they could have, but I don't really think so; Deng's salary made him a bit of a cap issue (they'd usually have to take salary back, the Bynum situation was easier) and most teams aren't going to give up much for a half year of a guy. The Bulls also get worse and improve their pick this year.

    But hey, if Dan Gilbert's shown us anything, it's that he's a short sighted, impatient child, so I shouldn't be surprised.

  19. #5019
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    What a stupid, stupid trade for Cleveland. They gave up some actual assets and got back half a year of Deng, which they can use to battle for a 6 seed in the East. The best case outcome of this trade is getting their heads handed to them in the second round of the playoffs. More likely, they won't even move up that high and will get swept out in the first round.

    The Bulls didn't really get much, but they didn't really give up something that mattered for them in a tangible way. The only question is if they could have found a higher bidder. Maybe they could have, but I don't really think so; Deng's salary made him a bit of a cap issue (they'd usually have to take salary back, the Bynum situation was easier) and most teams aren't going to give up much for a half year of a guy. The Bulls also get worse and improve their pick this year.

    But hey, if Dan Gilbert's shown us anything, it's that he's a short sighted, impatient child, so I shouldn't be surprised.
    The Cavs still have plenty of assets to acquire another really good player. Their future 1sts, Memphis 1st (protected 1-5 and 15-30), Waiters, Bennett, Thompson, Karasev, etc. This isn't the last move they're going to make, and it certainly doesn't cement them as a treadmill team. None of the assets they gave up for Deng are very good at all. Aside from that, Deng is a perfect fit for the team. Gives them a sorely needed SF and veteran leadership they needed in the worst way. They will also have his rights to re-sign him, which they will have a good chance at doing.

    Dan Gilbert has been anything but impatient, despite his post-decision rant. He purposefully allowed his team to be awful for 3 years just to acquire draft picks. That's a lot more patience than most owners would exhibit.

  20. #5020
    The Lightbringer SL1200's Avatar
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    I wonder why its Paxson who's talking to the media today. Hopefully Gar is going to be shown the exit soon. I can't stand that guy's face.

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