2013 NBA Season News and Discussion

[Blueobelisk]

I'd take Kyrie in a max contract over 3 copies of Mario Chalmers for $5 mil each (to play as backup and backup to backup) any day.

I'd also take Love over Bosh. I don't think Bosh was even a good fit on Heat. He couldnt even play All Star caliber, not because the ball wasn't in his hands, but because they pushed him to stretch 4/5. Love is gonna be PF. Cleveland has a C.

Cleveland 2014 Big 3 > Miami Dynasty Big 3.

Now, if I expect things to line up for Cleveland like it did for Miami or if I expect Cavs to be a good team is a whole other question.

[Gumboy]

Really? You would take the last couple years wade, bascially a back up at BEST player, over Irving? I guess being a blind Lebron fan has its bonuses; you get to see a whole new reality!

[Valq]

Really? You would take the last couple years wade, bascially a back up at BEST player, over Irving? I guess being a blind Lebron fan has its bonuses; you get to see a whole new reality!

So the guy that was on an All NBA the year before last, had some fantastic games in the same year in the finals, the 32 point 6 steal match vs the Spurs comes to mind, and the player that was better than Lebron himself vs the Pacers last year is at best a back up, the guy that used to guard Paul George better than Lebron is a back up at best? Kyrie can't even stay in front of Chalmers smh.

[Gumboy]

I should have clarified, he would be a back up to Irving if they were on the same team.

Hes old.

[Blueobelisk]

I dont know about that yet. I mean Wade is was great until injuries caught up.

Oh no I agree. Wade was monster in first year(s).

I mean if I had to choose.

Kyrie | Some SG | Lebron | Love | Some Center

vs.

Some PG | Wade | Lebron | Some PF | Bosh

I'd choose the first one.

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I'M BORED. WHY DO I HAVE TO WAIT SO LONG.

I went to nba.com and there's nothing there.

Well actually Wolves offered Eric Bledsoe max contract so I guess it affects Wolves guys team (and I guess phoenix isn't gonna be as good) but that's boring.

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Alright guys. I'm gonna have to start an argument.

You remember back when that guy wanted to post that billboard? Hold on I'll find the pic.

This one right here. Le Retard.



Here's my argument: Miami would have won a championship during those years even if Lebron wasn't there. So Lebron does kind of owe Miami.

Someone argue.

[Gumboy]

There is no way Miami would have won a title without Lebron, even if they made it to ECF they would have been obliterated by the Spurs.

[jreg]

Here's my argument: Miami would have won a championship during those years even if Lebron wasn't there. So Lebron does kind of owe Miami.

Someone argue.

They would've lost to the Celtics or Bulls in 2011, if not the Mavs.

They would've lost to the Celtics in 2012, maybe the Pacers, if not OKC.

They would've lost to the Pacers in 2013, if not the Spurs.

They might've lost to the Pacers in 2014. If they somehow made it past, all they would've accomplished is make the Finals even more one-sided.

This isn't even an argument.

I would've preferred LeBron to stay but I think any Heat fan is extremely thankful for the four years - four finals trips, two championships?

[Valq]

They would've lost to the Celtics or Bulls in 2011, if not the Mavs.

They would've lost to the Celtics in 2012, maybe the Pacers, if not OKC.

They would've lost to the Pacers in 2013, if not the Spurs.

They might've lost to the Pacers in 2014. If they somehow made it past, all they would've accomplished is make the Finals even more one-sided.

This isn't even an argument.

I would've preferred LeBron to stay but I think any Heat fan is extremely thankful for the four years - four finals trips, two championships?

They lost to the Mavs in 2011 because Lebron was a choke artist in that series.

[Blueobelisk]

2013/14 would have been Spurs years.

But 2011 Wade would have been top 3 player in NBA, Lebron would be on Cleveland (or wherever) so Rose wouldn't be MVP (however that affects the Bulls), Celtics would go down somehow, and as Valq said Lebron wouldn't choke in the Finals and Wade would pull Dallas upset 120 free throw attempts v2.

2012 Heat makes it back to ECF. I forgot what Celtics looked like but they were older. Wade isn't as good so maybe they get taken down. OKC still loses because they're young. MAYBE. 2011 was best chance for championship.

I'm also factoring in that Miami has a solid center so Bosh does some work as a good forward.

[jreg]

2012 Heat makes it back to ECF. I forgot what Celtics looked like but they were older. Wade isn't as good so maybe they get taken down. OKC still loses because they're young. MAYBE. 2011 was best chance for championship.

Heat were down 3-2 to the Celtics heading into game 6 on the road. This was LeBron's 45-15-5-I-can't-miss-a-jump-shot game. Doubtful Heat win this game. At one point, LeBron had 60% of the team's points.

They lost to the Mavs in 2011 because Lebron was a choke artist in that series.

LeBron is a major reason they were even there. The question was whether they could win a championship without him.

[ItachiZaku]

I'd take Kyrie in a max contract over 3 copies of Mario Chalmers for $5 mil each (to play as backup and backup to backup) any day.

I don't think Bosh was even a good fit on Heat.

Chalmers was fine until the end of last season, when he... I don't even know what he was doing, it sure wasn't playing basketball.

I didn't like Bosh either, I felt they needed someone like Tyson Chandler to be that 3rd guy - a defensive glass eater, instead they turned an agility/dexxer 4 into a flex 4 (not his game at all) to accommodate LeBron - essentially what teams have done with Dwight Howard and Shaquille O'Neal. It got us 2 titles though, which is great.

[Stommped]

While I do think it's crazy to compare Chalmers and Kyrie, I do think this new team is going to be extremely damaging to Kyrie's career. I'm not saying the Cavs won't be successful, but having Lebron and Love as teammates are going to really bring Kyrie's ceiling down. He was budding into one of the most explosive scoring point guards we've ever seen - D Rose ability to get to the rim but with S Curry ability to fill it up from 3. He will (he should) be a different player now; more of a facilitator since his best passing option is no longer Dion Waiters. I expect him to shoot way more 3s this season and have way more assists, but scoring should be down.

If this team stays together for a long time then Kyrie's legacy will be way way worse than it otherwise could have been.

[ItachiZaku]

I don't think he'll have more assists or even be more of a facilitator. Bron is now the leader of the team, point forward etc losing a ton of shots to Bron and Love also...

[Blueobelisk]

Kyrie was never going to succeed unless this team was put together anyway. In fact, I'd say Kyrie might have become mediocre if this didn't happen.

Kyrie has a nice shot and he sure as fuck has nice handles, but I don't think he could have been that 1 guy to lead a team to a championship. Not multiple championships, anyway. Not in Cleveland.

[Stommped]

Kyrie was never going to succeed unless this team was put together anyway. In fact, I'd say Kyrie might have become mediocre if this didn't happen.

Kyrie has a nice shot and he sure as fuck has nice handles, but I don't think he could have been that 1 guy to lead a team to a championship. Not multiple championships, anyway. Not in Cleveland.

I'm not saying he would have been a legend and carried Cleveland to titles by himself, I'm just saying overall his personal production will be down. Just like Wade and Bosh's have been down the past few years. Everything goes through Lebron on Lebron's team, everyone else just waits to shoot or rebound.

[Blueobelisk]

Oh then I agree.

(Although I don't think Kyrie was getting THAT many superstar shots so far in his career so it might not be "down" compared to his current production, maybe it would have been down compared to what he would have been in the future. A quick look shows Kyrie took on average 17.4 shots per game last season, compared to Cleveland's 84.8 attempts per game. That's like 20.5%. I'd say 27%+ of team's shots is considerable.)

[bergmann620]

While I do think it's crazy to compare Chalmers and Kyrie, I do think this new team is going to be extremely damaging to Kyrie's career. I'm not saying the Cavs won't be successful, but having Lebron and Love as teammates are going to really bring Kyrie's ceiling down. He was budding into one of the most explosive scoring point guards we've ever seen - D Rose ability to get to the rim but with S Curry ability to fill it up from 3. He will (he should) be a different player now; more of a facilitator since his best passing option is no longer Dion Waiters. I expect him to shoot way more 3s this season and have way more assists, but scoring should be down.

If this team stays together for a long time then Kyrie's legacy will be way way worse than it otherwise could have been.

Adding championships generally improves legacies.

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Kyrie was never going to succeed unless this team was put together anyway. In fact, I'd say Kyrie might have become mediocre if this didn't happen.

Kyrie has a nice shot and he sure as fuck has nice handles, but I don't think he could have been that 1 guy to lead a team to a championship. Not multiple championships, anyway. Not in Cleveland.

Nobody is that one guy. It's 1-3 guys with a cast and coach.

The reason his growth stopped last season has a lot more to do with Mike Brown than Kyrie Irving.

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I'm not saying he would have been a legend and carried Cleveland to titles by himself, I'm just saying overall his personal production will be down. Just like Wade and Bosh's have been down the past few years. Everything goes through Lebron on Lebron's team, everyone else just waits to shoot or rebound.

Hell, Jordan's numbers went down when Pippen and Grant emerged. Was that bad for him or his legacy? His overall scoring will (might) drop, his efficiency will increase, and he will start playing in meaningful games. It's what happens when you go from being the best player on a bad team to a good player on a potentially great team.

There's also the possiblity that Mike Brown's 'offense' was strangling Kyrie's development, and with Blatt and space, his totals stay the same or get a little better as his efficiency improves. He should pretty much get everything he's ever going to want on offense- imagine what Wade could have done with Lebron if he didn't shoot 3's worse than I do....

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Oh then I agree.

(Although I don't think Kyrie was getting THAT many superstar shots so far in his career so it might not be "down" compared to his current production, maybe it would have been down compared to what he would have been in the future. A quick look shows Kyrie took on average 17.4 shots per game last season, compared to Cleveland's 84.8 attempts per game. That's like 20.5%. I'd say 27%+ of team's shots is considerable.)

I would be shocked if Cleveland didn't get closer to 100 total shots per game- their best defense is going to be playing an insane pace and daring teams to keep up. There's a definite chance that he gets the same number of shots per game- and damn near every one of them will be open.

[ItachiZaku]

Kyrie has a nice shot and he sure as fuck has nice handles, but I don't think he could have been that 1 guy to lead a team to a championship.

If Chris Paul can't, Kyrie certainly can't.

[ItachiZaku]

Also i like Anderson Varejo's energy at Center. I think that helps everyone out.

[bergmann620]

Just curious but how do you see this Cavs team playing?

I think Lebron got sick of having to do everything in Miami at the end. Wade was hurt, the Cole/Chalmers combo was beyond bad in the finals, like to the point they could not even bring the ball up the floor. No front court, so he had to be the best rebounder. I think in Cle he wants the other guys to do more. I think Kyrie is going to have the ball more then people think, which should allow LeBron to be a wing player again instead of a point-forward. Love is one of the best rebounder in the league and will greatly help LeBron out, not to mention a more natural fit with his shooting. I fully expect them to add another big as well.

Not saying we see it all this year, but I think the Cavs are going to be the Spurs: East.

You have an elite point guard in Kyrie. Lebron is the richest possible rich man's version of Diaw. Love doesn't have an exact analog, but he brings range, rebounding, and passing. Mike Miller is either a poor man's Ginobili or a rich man's Bonner off the bench. Dellavedova off the bench will excel with the open looks he's going to get. Tristan Thompson is excellent as a back-up big. Varejao is great in the Splitter role.

To me, the two wild cards here are Dion Waiters and David Blatt. If Dion is as dedicated to growing his game as say, Danny Green, he could be the real x-factor- a guy that could get you 20-30 points on any given night. If the team buys into Blatt- constantly moving, shifting the ball fast, getting the best shot, trusting each other... And if the Cavs really invest in specific coaching, growing their players, establishing a system...

This team is going to meld far, far easier than the Heat did- the players' skill sets mesh better, Kyrie is far younger and more malleable than Wade, and they have a legitimate bench.