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  1. #81
    What's funny is anyone in this thread that believes Paragon's mains aren't the ones running the 10 mans right now, banned or not.

  2. #82
    I am Murloc! Cairhiin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Applenazi View Post
    Oh no, vague baseless assumptions? I guess you win this round!

    THREAD OVER GUYS, It turns out it wasn't because of gear like this kid claimed in his first post. They are getting beat because they have no clue what the fuck they are doing. Case fucking closed, I am glad we did this.
    You must be naive to think that random people picked up by Paragon are better than their main raiders.

  3. #83
    Deleted
    As Skarn has posted,

    21% of all 25 man guilds have killed Morchok heroic
    12% of all 10 man guilds have killed Morchok heroic

    3% of all 25 man guilds have killed Zon'ozz heroic
    0.5% of all 10 man guilds have killed Zon'ozz heroic

    In both cases, its 10 man that have the least kills in their respective category compared to the number of raid teams out there.

  4. #84
    If you raid 25m exclusively: "of course!"
    If you raid 10m exclusively: "not a chance!"

    If you raid both, you know the relative strengths and weaknesses of both, as Bubblez pointed out.

  5. #85
    Blademaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyxxi View Post
    As Skarn has posted,

    21% of all 25 man guilds have killed Morchok heroic
    12% of all 10 man guilds have killed Morchok heroic

    3% of all 25 man guilds have killed Zon'ozz heroic
    0.5% of all 10 man guilds have killed Zon'ozz heroic

    In both cases, its 10 man that have the least kills in their respective category compared to the number of raid teams out there.
    Because those numbers can be taken out of context quite easily. The percentages are generated from how many guilds have killed Morchok on normal, which is around 6:1 10 to 25, instead of basing the percentages off guilds who beat Madness (and are actually able to do heroics), which is still around 5:1 10 to 25.

    It is actually around ~65% of 25 mans have killed H Morchok that could do heroics compared to ~60% of 10 mans. For Zon'ozz, it is ~6.5% 25s to ~4.5% 10s.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyxxi View Post
    As Skarn has posted,

    21% of all 25 man guilds have killed Morchok heroic
    12% of all 10 man guilds have killed Morchok heroic

    3% of all 25 man guilds have killed Zon'ozz heroic
    0.5% of all 10 man guilds have killed Zon'ozz heroic

    In both cases, its 10 man that have the least kills in their respective category compared to the number of raid teams out there.
    Unfortunately that says nothing about the relative difficulty. Fact is there are many more 10 man guilds than 25 being counted, so your taking a % of a much larger population. Given variances in populations with respect to preferences for PvE progress raiding, your conclusions simply don't follow.

    Morchok heroic 10 man kills will soon be over 3000, and 25 man are not even 650. That fact should inform anyone that those above quoted %'s are unreliable as an indicators of relative difficulty.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Altarion View Post
    Unfortunately that says nothing about the relative difficulty. Fact is there are many more 10 man guilds than 25 being counted, so your taking a % of a much larger population. Given variances in populations with respect to preferences for PvE progress raiding, your conclusions simply don't follow.

    Morchok heroic 10 man kills will soon be over 3000, and 25 man are not even 650. That fact should inform anyone that those above quoted %'s are unreliable as an indicators of relative difficulty.
    W.T.F. ? Your education system has failed you.


    There are fewer 25 man guilds, yet a greater percent of them have completed it. Go figure....

  8. #88
    Assuming otherwise balanced encounters, for as long as 10-man encounters are designed to not assume optimal group buffs, guilds which have the required classes will have an easier time with both dps and healing on 10-man. Utility may work either way around, depending on the balancing.

    Spreading is easier on 10-man.

    25-mans have more people and as such have a higher chance of dying. Considering on actually challenging encounters where a single death means missing an enrage, combat resses are somewhat balanced. 10-man might only have a disadvantage on a theoretical encounter where the tanks (or people of another key duty, assuming same amount between the two) have a high chance of dying, but the chance for the rest of the raid is pretty much nonexistent.


    Once you have the content on farm, it gets easier on 25-man.

  9. #89
    Deleted

    pretty balanced imo

    Well, I think it is pretty balanced tbh. The reason why 25-man guilds most often get world first is because the 25-man is for more "hardcore members" in generally. That is the "real thing" according to them (and Blizzard?). I'd love an experiment where top 3 of the 10 man guilds make a 25-man guild to see if they can be competitive.

    Why 25 man is easier in DS:
    - 10-15 caster legendaries
    - Always all raid buffs
    - The ability to optimize setup on each encounter
    - You can carry a few slackers
    - More loot per person
    - More CR:s per person

    The requirement of individual performance is much more higher in 10 man. You can't afford boosting one single player, and I guess why 25 man guilds blame 10 man for being to easy is because they could optimize their 10 man group out of 35 raiders. In a 10 man guild you have what you have to optimize (like 11-12 raiders and some alts)

    Why 10 man is easier in DS:
    - The group is much easier to organize
    - The communication is easier

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroesec View Post
    Anyone saying that 25 is easier than 10 is mouthing off without actually doing it.

    Let me put it another way. My guild... my very good guild (trust me)
    So world 900th raggy heroic now means very good?

  11. #91
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Eilee View Post
    W.T.F. ? Your education system has failed you.


    There are fewer 25 man guilds, yet a greater percent of them have completed it. Go figure....
    Could it maybe just maybe have something to do with the fact that there are 95% more casual oriented 10man guilds than 25? Obviously the percentage of 10man guilds will be lower when the bracket has so many casual guilds that will never kill anything on heroic.

  12. #92
    I like 10man better, I guess because I have 4 fps when I do 25mans (LFR).

  13. #93
    Brewmaster Malefic's Avatar
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    Locking this, turning into a flamefest as usual. Constructive discussions are more than welcome on the forums, but berating and insulting others isn't.

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