1. #1
    High Overlord RehabOC80's Avatar
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    Glyph + Talent Question for Prot

    Was going over the guide and looking at my Talents/Glyphs and felt like some things might be outdated for my spec.

    Currently:
    Prime
    -SoR
    -SoT
    -HoR

    If I keep HoR, would it be better to HoR single target as well as Multiple Mobs, and just drop CS altogether? I find the CS glyph lackluster, as 5% Crit really is meaningless.
    Is the 10% on Judgement worthwhile when I get my 2piece? Judgement hits for like ~9.5k full Veng stacked currently(just testing on a friend) so it'll be like 10.5k-11k, prob up to 12-13k in Raid, so its a 2.5k shield compared to a 3k shield.
    Doubtful, but WoG? I use WoG on CD basicly for the shield, or to lighten healer load, because threat is obv never an issue now.

    Major
    -DP
    -HW
    -Aestetic Crusader

    HW probably isnt too useful, but when it IS useful, it comes in really hand to interupt some Caster Elementals or Dragonkin, but idk how often that comes into play in DS?
    If HoR is more than Crusader, then this glyph is just pointless, and I never really have many mana issues, even when just using HoR like grinding trash mobs
    Only reason I haven't switched to LoH is because I'm not sure if 7minute CD is that big of a difference from 10min. In the course of a fight, it's not gonna allow 2 LoH, and even on a 10m CD that still is available again by the next boss pull just due to trash clearing/etc.


    Talent Wise(Outt on Eredar if you'd like to look):
    I have PoJ of course, because I'll never give up movement :P but I have Imp Judgement and Hallowed Ground, I use Conc quite often, even on single target, just because it doesn't take away from my rotation, and if I'm weaving Inq in, every bit of DPS helps, and it adds up. So would I be better moving Imp Judgement pts to E4E? which is really the only other viable option.


    tl:dr nothing really significant, just a few minor questions about glyphs and pt placement that aren't make or break, just seeing the general consensus, now especially w/ our 2piece.

    Thanks,

    Edit: Just slapped a Dummy for CS vs HoR, CS ~7.5k and HoR ~5k(~1k + ~4k) w/o Inq and ~5.5k(~1k+ ~4.5k) w/ Inq. and that's w/ the Glyph, so I see CS really is quite more Single Target.
    Last edited by RehabOC80; 2011-12-09 at 10:26 AM.
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  2. #2
    Bloodsail Admiral Splosion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RehabOC80 View Post
    Was going over the guide and looking at my Talents/Glyphs and felt like some things might be outdated for my spec.

    Currently:
    Prime
    -SoR
    -SoT
    -HoR

    If I keep HoR, would it be better to HoR single target as well as Multiple Mobs, and just drop CS altogether? I find the CS glyph lackluster, as 5% Crit really is meaningless.
    Is the 10% on Judgement worthwhile when I get my 2piece? Judgement hits for like ~9.5k full Veng stacked currently(just testing on a friend) so it'll be like 10.5k-11k, prob up to 12-13k in Raid, so its a 2.5k shield compared to a 3k shield.
    Doubtful, but WoG? I use WoG on CD basicly for the shield, or to lighten healer load, because threat is obv never an issue now.
    The HotR glyph is only really an aoe glyph, has situational usefulness, depending on fight (have glyph dust on you, and change it when you need it)
    Judgement is a small gain, potentially boosting the 2pc strength by 10% over a given fight, so it probably is a decent option, around the level of the WoG glyph. Similar for that glyph, it really depends if you need survival or not (This depends on your healers, if they can cope with you dropping a little survival from using self-WoG for some (well, quite a bit) more dps, then do so. Playstyle is also a factor here.
    Major
    -DP
    -HW
    -Aestetic Crusader

    HW probably isnt too useful, but when it IS useful, it comes in really hand to interupt some Caster Elementals or Dragonkin, but idk how often that comes into play in DS?
    If HoR is more than Crusader, then this glyph is just pointless, and I never really have many mana issues, even when just using HoR like grinding trash mobs
    Only reason I haven't switched to LoH is because I'm not sure if 7minute CD is that big of a difference from 10min. In the course of a fight, it's not gonna allow 2 LoH, and even on a 10m CD that still is available again by the next boss pull just due to trash clearing/etc.
    Ascetic Crusader is the largest mana conservation glyph we have, unless you're interrupting (Nefarian heroic, I hated you for that). It's useful if you need it, basically useless if you don't. CS is still more damage than HotR. Holy wrath provides more utility than any other glyph, so keep it. For a third glyph option you have: Divine protection (situational, better for fightls with large magic damage (ultraxion is easy with this), worse for those with high physical damage (morchok heroic)), Rebuke (as mentioned already), and focused shield (our 3rd most powerful single target dps glyph. change accordingly). Lay on hands is kinda gimmicky, only really allows you to use it more often between attempts (outside of madness).

    Talent Wise(Outt on Eredar if you'd like to look):
    I have PoJ of course, because I'll never give up movement :P but I have Imp Judgement and Hallowed Ground, I use Conc quite often, even on single target, just because it doesn't take away from my rotation, and if I'm weaving Inq in, every bit of DPS helps, and it adds up. So would I be better moving Imp Judgement pts to E4E? which is really the only other viable option.
    You've picked up Hallowed ground and 2/2 reckoning, but dropped out Rule of Law (retribution talent) for it. Rule of law provides far more dps and personal survival (if you use WoG) than either hallowed ground (0 survival, just mana conservation + slight damage increase on a terrible ability), and the 2nd reckoning point (improves windwalk uptime by ~1%, the first point gives far more).

    Overall, the judgement glyph provides a small survival gain if you need it, and some small dps gain (around 0.7% at high hit). You likely won't notice any fantastic survival gain either.

  3. #3
    High Overlord RehabOC80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Splosion View Post
    The HotR glyph is only really an aoe glyph, has situational usefulness, depending on fight (have glyph dust on you, and change it when you need it)
    Judgement is a small gain, potentially boosting the 2pc strength by 10% over a given fight, so it probably is a decent option, around the level of the WoG glyph. Similar for that glyph, it really depends if you need survival or not (This depends on your healers, if they can cope with you dropping a little survival from using self-WoG for some (well, quite a bit) more dps, then do so. Playstyle is also a factor here.

    Ascetic Crusader is the largest mana conservation glyph we have, unless you're interrupting (Nefarian heroic, I hated you for that). It's useful if you need it, basically useless if you don't. CS is still more damage than HotR. Holy wrath provides more utility than any other glyph, so keep it. For a third glyph option you have: Divine protection (situational, better for fightls with large magic damage (ultraxion is easy with this), worse for those with high physical damage (morchok heroic)), Rebuke (as mentioned already), and focused shield (our 3rd most powerful single target dps glyph. change accordingly). Lay on hands is kinda gimmicky, only really allows you to use it more often between attempts (outside of madness).

    You've picked up Hallowed ground and 2/2 reckoning, but dropped out Rule of Law (retribution talent) for it. Rule of law provides far more dps and personal survival (if you use WoG) than either hallowed ground (0 survival, just mana conservation + slight damage increase on a terrible ability), and the 2nd reckoning point (improves windwalk uptime by ~1%, the first point gives far more).

    Overall, the judgement glyph provides a small survival gain if you need it, and some small dps gain (around 0.7% at high hit). You likely won't notice any fantastic survival gain either.
    Would Rule of law effecitvely increase the value of CS Prime Glyph? as It stands I have ~1.42% Crit, this would inc it to ~16.4%, and then again to 21.4% for CS correct? So might be worthwhile.

    Focused shield I'll probably not grab because I prefer the other options, and I thought w/ Hallowed Ground the DPS was significant for Consecrrate to be worth using?(There are blanks in the rotation so it's not wasting any GCD's).

    So you suggest I pick up Rule of Law, but to get to T2 is Imp Judgement worth it? E4E is probably a better choice, rather than the small time Judgement needs the added range(high movement fights w/ th 2pc can be used situationally)

    Thanks for the help so far!
    Quote Originally Posted by mackenzie View Post
    The real reason why everyone hates Garrosh...he sparkles in sunlight.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yakusai View Post
    Saw a hunter named Michaelvick with no pet out

  4. #4
    I am currently rocking with this specc; http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...lent/secondary

    And I find it suiting my needs, except that i miss the run speed from the retribution tree. *snif*
    Judgement hitting / criting as hard as shield of righteous, problem?
    Tip for judgement and survival with T13 2set, use inquisition.
    Last edited by MorphexEU; 2011-12-09 at 12:52 PM.

  5. #5
    High Overlord RehabOC80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MorphexEU View Post
    I am currently rocking with this specc; http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...lent/secondary

    And I find it suiting my needs, except that i miss the run speed from the retribution tree. *snif*
    Judgement hitting / criting as hard as shield of righteous, problem?
    Tip for judgement and survival with T13 2set, use inquisition.
    Does the judgement bubble make up for the ~30k Bubble you lose from WoG w/ Guarded by the light talent? (and I'll never give up run speed <3 and I lik having 50 mastery boots > 25 + 8% speed, or w/e the amount is)

    However, there's no way your judgement is coming even close to a SoR Crit(which usually is a Crit)
    Reg Judgement hits for ~10k(I'll be generous) so w/ glyph + inq thats 30% and 10%(close enuff to 40% for this napkin math not to matter) so ~14k, even a Cit doesn't come near a SoR Crit(my bottom is a 32k, but normally 52k or in the 70k range w/ Inq up)

    So although w/ 14k you're getting a bubble ranging from 3.5k ~ 6k respectively, we'll say 6k every CD to be generous, so ~16.k every 20sec, compared to a WoG for ~26k+. But, you have to take into account you're sacrificing a SoR w/ that 3 HP, which is potentially another 50k damage, or a Inq which is X amount, just for using an ability that's already a part of the rotation. But your Judgement Crit is still only ~14% or so(bit more w/ a HAT rogue).

    Plus Judgement misses more than a drunk at a toilet, @least w/ SoR you just lose a GCD, w/ Judgement you lose a GCD, 8sec til you can re-use it, and I'm not sure if you get the bubble?
    Quote Originally Posted by mackenzie View Post
    The real reason why everyone hates Garrosh...he sparkles in sunlight.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yakusai View Post
    Saw a hunter named Michaelvick with no pet out

  6. #6
    I'll refer to our morchok kill then, where the average hit was on 26k and the average crit on 52k. I've crited around 100k with judgement, without any damage modifier on a boss ( for instance on zon'ozz). WoL logg here.

    Ohh and on that fight the average absorb shield is on 5k.

    And here you can see i used both judgement (with inquisition) and Shield of the Righteous
    Last edited by MorphexEU; 2011-12-09 at 01:14 PM.

  7. #7
    High Overlord RehabOC80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MorphexEU View Post
    I'll refer to our morchok kill then, where the average hit was on 26k and the average crit on 52k. I've crited around 100k with judgement, without any damage modifier on a boss ( for instance on zon'ozz). WoL logg here.

    Ohh and on that fight the average absorb shield is on 5k.

    And here you can see i used both judgement (with inquisition) and Shield of the Righteous
    What am I missing then? my Judgement hits for ~10k, all you have is an inc Crit Chance, so where are you getting the extra damage from?
    Quote Originally Posted by mackenzie View Post
    The real reason why everyone hates Garrosh...he sparkles in sunlight.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yakusai View Post
    Saw a hunter named Michaelvick with no pet out

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by RehabOC80 View Post
    What am I missing then? my Judgement hits for ~10k, all you have is an inc Crit Chance, so where are you getting the extra damage from?
    Arbiter of the light ( the crit buff), Seals of the pure ( damage increase), glyph of judgement and to last inquisition (+8% increased spell damage taken debuff from warlocks etc). This and a lot of vengeance. Ohhh and the average crits on my judgement on ultraxion was 62k :3 Logg here. Also just had shield of the righteous crits there.

  9. #9
    High Overlord RehabOC80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MorphexEU View Post
    Arbiter of the light ( the crit buff), Seals of the pure ( damage increase), glyph of judgement and to last inquisition (+8% increased spell damage taken debuff from warlocks etc). This and a lot of vengeance. Ohhh and the average crits on my judgement on ultraxion was 62k :3
    The only thing I lack from that it Arbiter, so like I aid, all you have is a higher Crit Chance =/ MY Ven maxes out at like 14k, so gear-wise you prob have more Stam than me, which is the only thing I can think of.

    w/ Inq up I get prob ~14k Hits, w/o the Lock Debuff or Glyph just testing on a friend to get Veng stacked.( so potentially maybe 16k or so.

    Hmm, seems interesting though, when I have the gear that can allow for it, I may look into that.
    Quote Originally Posted by mackenzie View Post
    The real reason why everyone hates Garrosh...he sparkles in sunlight.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yakusai View Post
    Saw a hunter named Michaelvick with no pet out

  10. #10
    Bloodsail Admiral Splosion's Avatar
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    If I'll quote theck again, Judgement in t13 gear hits for 25k.

    http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.c...593307#p593307

    The judgement glyph is useful kinda, but not fantastic. On a side note Morphex, I really don't understand how you managed that much extra damage, I'll have to look at my own logs.

    Meh, I didn't get a crit with mine on a baleroc dps parse (#21 in 10 heroic, lolol)

  11. #11
    Deleted
    it's pretty simple splosion, zon'ozz HAS a damage modifier. it depends on how often the bubble hits him, the more +% dmg he gets in the dark phase.

    usual judgement with inq up hits for like 28-33k.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazak View Post
    it's pretty simple splosion, zon'ozz HAS a damage modifier. it depends on how often the bubble hits him, the more +% dmg he gets in the dark phase.

    usual judgement with inq up hits for like 28-33k.
    None of the loggs refer to zon'ozz though.

  13. #13
    Deleted
    I was refering to your

    Quote Originally Posted by MorphexEU View Post
    I've crited around 100k with judgement, without any damage modifier on a boss ( for instance on zon'ozz). WoL logg here.
    In that log you had 2 judgement crits with an average of 52242.0 for a total of 104484. I think you got a bit confused on that

  14. #14
    Nha the crit was just not logged As it was on trash after getting some sick vengeance >.<

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