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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by xsistor View Post
    Somehow I doubt it. WoW's world is big not merely because of the land surface area, but because of how intricately detailed even ordinary parts of the world are. There is so much history even in a chunk as small as as Elwynn Forest and Northshire. Every MMO I've played (and I've played a great many) tends to have large empty expanses, and SWTOR was no different. Rift, I had hoped would equal WoW in the intricacy and detail in the world. Going upto Silverwood and finding the college convinced me it could, but moving ahead, most of the rest of the world was full of featureless expanses.

    WoW's world I bet, after we've spent equal time on both, will feel much fuller and richer and therefore ultimately "bigger".

    WoW has had years of development thrown in, in the form of expansions and other updates since 2004. And it has such a rich history given the original game is ten years older going back to 1994. I would be surprised if any development studio could churn out as substantial a gameworld as WoW's without a very very large investment in development, possibly circa half a billion dollars.

    And I don't mean these dollars either...

    All I have to say is,some planets in the Star wars universe can tell more stories than all the lore for WoW.Also,Played wow for 5 years...and played in the swtor beta for over a month.Defintly feels to be alot more depth,feel and fullfilment in TOR than WoW to me.

  2. #42
    Deleted
    Daggerfall is about twice the size of the United Kingdom. Including about 5000 villages and 750.000 (!) NPCs. And that's a fact.

    Also SWTOR doesn't consist of useless wasteland. Aside the few exceptions most of the planets are FULL of lore.
    Last edited by mmocf6add7b1f8; 2011-12-10 at 04:29 PM.

  3. #43
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Zamoria View Post
    It says 30,000 = 30, not 30000
    Why the hell would you write down 30 as 30,000?
    In American notation, a comma is a seperator for thousands, unlike the European notation which uses a dot.

    I suppose he is going from "smallest" to "largest" in the comments, so he is trying to claim daggerfall is 62000 square miles (note how the comments go from 500> 618 > 5600, etc.)

  4. #44
    One of the coolest things you will find to do, in exploring how big SW:TOR really is, is Datacron hunting. They are little cubes that give you passive +2 bonus to a given stat, for the rest of your character's existence, some experience relative to the world they are on, and lore tidbits for the Codex. And after the Origin Worlds, they are no longer in plain sight at all (usually). They do emit a sparkly whine though, making them easier to find by proximity.

    A couple on Coruscant and Taris that I found, involved finding some small little path you could reach off to the side, that lead up to a higher area, a long trek around an area, usually balancing across narrower platforms, jumping too, to finally reach the goal after 10-20 minutes. Cityscapes will be the worst for hiding them in weird places, where you have to climb boxes and barrels, to reach pipes above you, to find them.

    It will be so fun to hunt them all down.

  5. #45
    SWTOR has better lore and bigger area's but does it matter when it has nothing else to offer? lore and exploration is only fun one time, so what do you do in SWTOR after you done all quests and explored all area's? To me it seems star wars mmo should have been an SP rpg like skyrim, as an MMO needs more then lore and big area's to keep people playing.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Voidmaster View Post
    These are more realistic numbers:

    http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/pos...e-to-oblivion/

    Note that those are numbers from Bethesda, they say that oblivion is 16 square miles, which they also say in the other picture.
    But then, in the other picture they claim daggerflal is 62000 square miles, while Bethesda numbers are 62 square miles (read the link i posted).

    So, in fact, daggerfall is 4 times the size of oblivion, which sounds way more realistic than 4000 times don't you think? And yes, i played both oblivion and daggerfall.


    Also, read my other comment about the lotro size on the pic, they claim that lotro landmass is 375 times wow landmass, you will know how "realistic" that picture is.....
    you are wrong (see coments in the link you posted). the world of daggerfall is indeed ~487,000 square kilometers. twice the size of great britain.
    source:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Eld...all#Game_world
    http://www.bethsoft.com/eng/games/games_daggerfall.html

    it is mostly random generated though.

  7. #47

  8. #48
    I think a lot of the SWTOR maps give the illusion that they are much larger than they truly are. Much of what you see is inaccessible, and the areas where meaningful actions occur are even more streamlined.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Speedlance View Post
    SWTOR has better lore and bigger area's but does it matter when it has nothing else to offer? lore and exploration is only fun one time, so what do you do in SWTOR after you done all quests and explored all area's? To me it seems star wars mmo should have been an SP rpg like skyrim, as an MMO needs more then lore and big area's to keep people playing.
    Did you really just say a Star Wars MMO should be a single player game? You do realize that MMO stands for massively MULTIPLAYER online, right? These are the kind of fanboys that are defending WoW :-/.

    That chart is pretty cool. I'm not going to sit here and try to say which games are the best just from land area, but its pretty interesting to see anyways. Would be nice if they got SWTOR up there for comparison too, but I'm sure its an old chart and with all the different planets it would be difficult.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Voidmaster View Post
    Yeah, ofcourse i am an idiot, did you even think about what you said before typing it in?

    I did play daggerfall, and yes, it was big. But not 4000 times the size of the oblivion map.
    50 times as big would be stretching it already, and this picture is claiming 4000 times, maybe you start doing some research....
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Eld...II:_Daggerfall
    http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Places
    http://www.bethsoft.com/eng/games/games_daggerfall.html
    http://www.giantbomb.com/the-elder-s...rfall/61-1129/ "According to Todd Howard, Morrowind's land area is 0.01% the size of Daggerfall."

    Oblivion is noted as 41 square Km. If anything Daggerfall is MORE then 4000x the size of Oblivion. But, as stated in the last link, "only" 161.600 square Km is actually explorable in Daggerfall. 161600 / 41 = 3941. In other words, the ~4000x size of explorable landmass is accurate.
    Last edited by terrahero; 2011-12-10 at 04:46 PM.

  11. #51
    There are a great number of invisible walls scattered all about... it's much tougher to quantify the area in SWTOR to be honest.

    ---------- Post added 2011-12-10 at 08:44 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by terrahero View Post

    Oblivion is noted as 41 square Km. If anything Daggerfall is MORE then 4000x the size of Oblivion.
    Daggerfall was also like 99% fairly same-y randomly generated content. Don't get me wrong - it was a great game - but we can't use stuff like Daggerfall as a metric. Otherwise Minecraft is the biggest game that ever was and ever will be, because it has an infinite number of seeds for map generation and every single one of those seeds has a surface area many times larger than Earth.
    Last edited by Herecius; 2011-12-10 at 04:46 PM.

  12. #52
    Yeah SW:TOR....... looks big, but a lot of it is just background.
    Why am I back here, I don't even play these games anymore

    The problem with the internet is parallel to its greatest achievement: it has given the little man an outlet where he can be heard. Most of the time however, the little man is a little man because he is not worth hearing.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doriath View Post
    All I have to say is,some planets in the Star wars universe can tell more stories than all the lore for WoW.Also,Played wow for 5 years...and played in the swtor beta for over a month.Defintly feels to be alot more depth,feel and fullfilment in TOR than WoW to me.
    Such statements bothers me for several reasons. Mainly the bashing element. Now how old is Star Wars, how many movies, series, books, games and etc are there? OBVIOUSLY there is more story...

    Amazing sig, done by mighty Lokann

  14. #54
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Such statements bothers me for several reasons. Mainly the bashing element. Now how old is Star Wars, how many movies, series, books, games and etc are there? OBVIOUSLY there is more story...
    Your statement bothers me too, the TOR story was written by BioWare, it started in the Kotor games, just like the Warcraft story was written by Blizzard and started in the Warcraft 1-3 games. The base is the same.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Herecius View Post
    There are a great number of invisible walls scattered all about... it's much tougher to quantify the area in SWTOR to be honest.

    ---------- Post added 2011-12-10 at 08:44 AM ----------


    Daggerfall was also like 99% fairly same-y randomly generated content. Don't get me wrong - it was a great game - but we can't use stuff like Daggerfall as a metric. Otherwise Minecraft is the biggest game that ever was and ever will be, because it has an infinite number of seeds for map generation and every single one of those seeds has a surface area many times larger than Earth.
    It was mentioned before that it was mostly autogenerated, but this discussion has spawned on wether or not the explorable world is actually that big. And yes, it is. Just cause a computer filled in 99% of it is irrelevant. Same with Minecraft, which is not infinite in size, each world you join is limited. There are variations between diffirent worlds, but the worlds themselves are NOT infinite.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by xsistor View Post
    Somehow I doubt it. WoW's world is big not merely because of the land surface area, but because of how intricately detailed even ordinary parts of the world are. There is so much history even in a chunk as small as as Elwynn Forest and Northshire. Every MMO I've played (and I've played a great many) tends to have large empty expanses, and SWTOR was no different. Rift, I had hoped would equal WoW in the intricacy and detail in the world. Going upto Silverwood and finding the college convinced me it could, but moving ahead, most of the rest of the world was full of featureless expanses.

    WoW's world I bet, after we've spent equal time on both, will feel much fuller and richer and therefore ultimately "bigger".

    WoW has had years of development thrown in, in the form of expansions and other updates since 2004. And it has such a rich history given the original game is ten years older going back to 1994. I would be surprised if any development studio could churn out as substantial a gameworld as WoW's without a very very large investment in development, possibly circa half a billion dollars.
    silithus, tanaris, hell even most of icecrown, would like to have a word with you... (maybe others, especially pre-cata...)

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by terrahero View Post
    It was mentioned before that it was mostly autogenerated, but this discussion has spawned on wether or not the explorable world is actually that big. And yes, it is. Just cause a computer filled in 99% of it is irrelevant. Same with Minecraft, which is not infinite in size, each world you join is limited. There are variations between diffirent worlds, but the worlds themselves are NOT infinite.
    Though that opens another route - my point with Minecraft was that there an infinite number of technically finite worlds (though those worlds are so incredibly massive that nobody could ever explore even one of them). Doesn't that technically make Minecraft infinite?

    When talking about games though, shouldn't we focus on what is feasibly a playable space? You can't feasibly play in all of that space, anymore than somebody could feasibly play in all of Daggerfall's space, really, anymore than somebody can feasibly play in all of a gamespace that has sections cordoned off by invisible walls... space in games is a hard thing to quantify in general, because games all work by different rules from one another.

    Now I'm just getting awkward though.

  18. #58
    as for daggerfall wasnt the scale a tad different from oblivion. i mean it takes 2 weeks real time to walk from one side of the game to the other, compared to the minutes it takes in the latter games.
    Tell them that the Lich King is dead...and the World of Warcraft...died with him.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Revelations View Post
    It is, WoW is actually quite small when comparing it to other games

    Check this out: http://unrealitymag.com/wp-content/u...me-worlds2.jpg
    But how realistic are those maps? Can you go every single place on those maps? I know that WoW in 2004 had plenty of places you couldn't go, which is why Cata was such a big deal, as they redid every single part of the Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor (except Belf and Draeni starting zones) to make them flyable. In additon to adding zones which weren't accessible on the old map, such as Mt. Hyjal and Gilneas. That's not even talking about Outland or Northrend. Or the Goblin starting zones.

    Maps like that can be deceptive: You can have a 1000 square miles on your map, but have it pathed so that players only go through 100 square miles. Looks big isn't the same as playable area.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Herecius View Post
    Though that opens another route - my point with Minecraft was that there an infinite number of technically finite worlds (though those worlds are so incredibly massive that nobody could ever explore even one of them). Doesn't that technically make Minecraft infinite?

    When talking about games though, shouldn't we focus on what is feasibly a playable space? You can't feasibly play in all of that space, anymore than somebody could feasibly play in all of Daggerfall's space, really, anymore than somebody can feasibly play in all of a gamespace that has sections cordoned off by invisible walls... space in games is a hard thing to quantify in general, because games all work by different rules from one another.

    Now I'm just getting awkward though.
    your not awkward you have a pipe, DEFEAT AWKWARDNESS WITH MAXIMUM RIDICULOSITY!
    Tell them that the Lich King is dead...and the World of Warcraft...died with him.

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